How do you create your batting order? - Page 2

rpriske · 04-02-2015, 01:04 PM

If you want to maximize your line-up, here is the mathematically best way of doing it.

Lineup Analysis

This assumes your predictions about OPS and SLG are accurate, of course.

The reality is, line-ups make only small differences in results.

Having said THAT, if there is one thing I wish I convince people of.... STOP PUTTING YOUR BEST HITTER THIRD!

You are minimizing your biggest asset.

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

If you want to maximize your line-up, here is the mathematically best way of doing it.

Lineup Analysis

This assumes your predictions about OPS and SLG are accurate, of course.

The reality is, line-ups make only small differences in results.

Having said THAT, if there is one thing I wish I convince people of.... STOP PUTTING YOUR BEST HITTER THIRD!

You are minimizing your biggest asset.

Of the top 5 spots, #3 is the spot where a high OBP counts for less, so I agree putting your best hitter #3 is not optimal.

MorseMoose · 04-02-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

In a Non-DH League I like to hit my Pitcher 8th so I need yet another leadoff capable hitter to bat 9th as to not slow down the top of the order if he gets on base.

8) Pitcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

8. Pitcher (if no DH) or weakest hitter (DH)

I also bat my pitcher 8th. When I'm paying attention, it seems the #8 hitter comes up with three outs more often than the #9 hitter. Probably just want I want to see, but I find myself having to do less double-switches batting my pitcher 8th.

frangipard · 04-02-2015, 01:29 PM

Two other things to think about:

You may wish to avoid multiple RH or LH hitters in a row, as late in the game this makes it easier for the opponent to get the platoon advantage when bringing in relievers.

If a non-DH league, look at your bench and consider pinch hitters you may be likely to use later in the game and want to double-switch for.

The Wolf · 04-02-2015, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I also bat my pitcher 8th. When I'm paying attention, it seems the #8 hitter comes up with three outs more often than the #9 hitter. Probably just want I want to see, but I find myself having to do less double-switches batting my pitcher 8th.

Did you mean "comes up with two outs"? Because it's really hard to come up to bat with three outs.

MorseMoose · 04-02-2015, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Did you mean "comes up with two outs"? Because it's really hard to come up to bat with three outs.

Yep. Thanks.

Curveball · 04-02-2015, 01:50 PM

Wow, so many input. Thank you very much folks, I have to read it all again, but for the moment I tried that online configurator, and it gave me some different results than OOTP AI.

I still have spring training ahead, so I can test various options and hopefully find the one that fits best.

Again, thank you very much.

ThePretender · 04-02-2015, 02:53 PM

1) Ideally, a Grady Sizemore in his prime type. High OBP, high power, speed is a bonus but not necessary (and wasted in front of power hitters, to be honest). On my non-dynasty teams it's a high OBP bat with some pop (gap or power)

2) Ideally my best or second best hitter. I've had 300/400/600 type guys bat here with 50 HR power, but depending on how the rest of my roster is I'll usually put the higher OBP guy, lesser ISO guy here compared to #4.

3) Usually my best or one of my best power bats that is flawed for some reason.

4) Best or second best hitter, usually slight edge to either HR power or just being the best all around hitter.

5) Usually a high power bat, similar to #3.

6/7/8/9 - Don't have a specific guideline, just usually go best to worst bat and adjust based on R/L. If players have similar ratings I'll put the speed guy after my last legit power bat, because having a speedster in front of low power bats makes each SB that much more effective. And when possible I'll put the SB threat batting 7th in an NL league so he'll steal in front of the pitcher, and then be sacrificed over to third.

I think where I'm different from others is that I just don't value SB that much. I don't care if my leadoff hitters can steal bases, and generally prefer they don't since my 2/3/4 guys are my best power bats and I don't care about going 1st to second when they can just knock em in with a home run. Generally speaking I find it's much easier to hit the 900-1000 runs scored range with obp/power than anything based around speed.

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

1) . Generally speaking I find it's much easier to hit the 900-1000 runs scored range with obp/power than anything based around speed.

If you are playing in an environment where teams can score 1000 runs, then yes, stealing bases is of little value, generally speaking.

But for those of us playing in more pedestrian time zones, speed is invaluable.

2 other considerations that others haven't mentioned is that the #5 hitter should be a pretty good OBP man, since he will lead off a lot of innings and the #7 hitter in a non-DH league (and when idiots don't bat their pitcher 8th) should be a man that can steal you a base. This is because if he reaches with 2 outs, you want to get him in scoring position for the #8 hitter, because otherwise if the #8 hitter singles, you then have 2 on and 2 out and the pitcher up. And it is not so bad if the #7 hitter is caught stealing, as this will prevent the pitcher from leading off an inning.

ThePretender · 04-02-2015, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

If you are playing in an environment where teams can score 1000 runs, then yes, stealing bases is of little value, generally speaking.

But for those of us playing in more pedestrian time zones, speed is invaluable.

Oh, I'm playing in start up OOTP leagues. The Standard one. My offensive environment isn't any different from yours. I've never found it useful to seek out SB threats. If a quality hitter is fast that's a bonus, but I'm not going out of my way to find a specific speed skill set like I would for obp/power.

Quote:

2 other considerations that others haven't mentioned is that the #5 hitter should be a pretty good OBP man, since he will lead off a lot of innings and the #7 hitter in a non-DH league (and when idiots don't bat their pitcher 8th)

You score more runs in an NL lineup when you bat your pitcher 8th, FYI.

Tram2Whitaker · 04-02-2015, 03:16 PM

I build my team around pitching and defense, and speed is usually a function of defense (outfield/infield range), which means that I usually have 2 or more speedsters, and 1 or 2 defensive specialists (which may or may not include the catcher) I prefer the NL w/o the DH, but I leave evolution on, so sometimes I get stuck with a DH (usually a washed up 1B).

1) Speed
2) Highest Avg
3) Highest OPS
4) Most HR (Usually not the same as #3)
5) Struggling power hitter (Usually no the same as #3 or #4)
6) Descending OPS from the top half
7) Descending OPS from top 2/3
8) Pitcher or Defensive Specialist
9) Struggling speedster (to set up the top of the order)

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

You score more runs in an NL lineup when you bat your pitcher 8th, FYI.

There is only one situation I can think of where I'd want to take the opportunity, if allowed, to flip-flop my 8 hitter and my pitcher and that is if the 8 hitter is due up with 2 outs and nobody on. Then I could go ahead and get the pitcher out of the way and start the next inning fresh.

There is no way that that one situation makes batting the pitcher 8th a winning prospect. And if I bat him 8th, then when the 7th hitter comes up with 2 outs and nobody on, I'd wish I had batted my pitcher 7th. And if....

sharkmgs · 04-02-2015, 04:20 PM

1. Best OBP hitter without power
2. 3rd best overall hitter
3. 5th best overall hitter
4. Best hitter with power
5. 4th best overall hitter
6. 6th best hitter.
7.
8. Pitcher in a non-DH league.
9. Best OBP or speed of the last 3 hitters.

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkmgs

1. Best OBP hitter without power
2. 3rd best overall hitter
3. 5th best overall hitter
4. Best hitter with power
5. 4th best overall hitter
6. 6th best hitter.
7.
8. Pitcher in a non-DH league.
9. Best OBP or speed of the last 3 hitters.

So, your 2nd best hitter is on the bench?......

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 04:28 PM

You know, what I always thought would be an interesting idea is that the first time through the order should not be set in stone. The manager could send his first 9 hitters up in any order he desired as the situation dictated. After that, you'd have to follow the same order.....

Matt Arnold · 04-02-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

You know, what I always thought would be an interesting idea is that the first time through the order should not be set in stone. The manager could send his first 9 hitters up in any order he desired as the situation dictated. After that, you'd have to follow the same order.....

That would be a pretty awesome way to play the game, but don't expect that to make it in to OOTP for a long time...

Painmantle · 04-02-2015, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Having said THAT, if there is one thing I wish I convince people of.... STOP PUTTING YOUR BEST HITTER THIRD!

You are minimizing your biggest asset.

The Biggest problem with this statement is, If you asked everyone who says they put their "Best Hitter 3rd" to define "best Hitter" They'd probably all have a different answer. It's pretty subjective if you ask me!

Anyone · 04-02-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Of the top 5 spots, #3 is the spot where a high OBP counts for less, so I agree putting your best hitter #3 is not optimal.

Right. Actually, the #3 slot I like to use for a high batting average hitter, one who doesn't walk as much as the guys I want just before or after him (especially before him), and who has some power (at least gap power). More power is better, though if he has enough power he might end up hitting 4th.

Matt Arnold · 04-02-2015, 05:15 PM

My ideal lineup is as follows:
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout
Mike Trout

But since I can't generally do that, I'd generally go with the following if making it myself:
1/2: highest avg/OBP, preferably with speed
3: most power
4: best hitter otherwise
5-9 descending order of talent

With the caveat that I would swap spots to avoid batting too many same-handed guys. So if my best speed/OBP guys are both lefties, then I'll put my power-only lefty cleanup behind my "best hitter" righty.

I'm indifferent to batting the pitcher 8th. I try it sometimes, but find it makes little to no difference. Generally I'll only do it if I feel like I need to change something up from my usual routine.

Questdog · 04-02-2015, 05:32 PM

Two other issues with batting your pitcher 8th:

1) You are guaranteeing more at bats to the pitcher's spot over the course of the season. This cannot be good.

2) You are guaranteeing that the pitcher's spot will come up one batter sooner in the late innings. There will be at least a handful of times when this will force you to pinch-hit for a pitcher that you didn't really want to relieve, when he could have stayed in the game 1 inning longer if you had one more at bat to wait for him to come up.

04-02-2015, 01:04 PM	#21
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,984 Blog Entries: 1	If you want to maximize your line-up, here is the mathematically best way of doing it. Lineup Analysis This assumes your predictions about OPS and SLG are accurate, of course. The reality is, line-ups make only small differences in results. Having said THAT, if there is one thing I wish I convince people of.... STOP PUTTING YOUR BEST HITTER THIRD! You are minimizing your biggest asset. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

04-02-2015, 03:16 PM	#31
Tram2Whitaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 619	I build my team around pitching and defense, and speed is usually a function of defense (outfield/infield range), which means that I usually have 2 or more speedsters, and 1 or 2 defensive specialists (which may or may not include the catcher) I prefer the NL w/o the DH, but I leave evolution on, so sometimes I get stuck with a DH (usually a washed up 1B). 1) Speed 2) Highest Avg 3) Highest OPS 4) Most HR (Usually not the same as #3) 5) Struggling power hitter (Usually no the same as #3 or #4) 6) Descending OPS from the top half 7) Descending OPS from top 2/3 8) Pitcher or Defensive Specialist 9) Struggling speedster (to set up the top of the order) __________________ 404'd!

04-02-2015, 01:29 PM	#24
frangipard OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 748	Two other things to think about: You may wish to avoid multiple RH or LH hitters in a row, as late in the game this makes it easier for the opponent to get the platoon advantage when bringing in relievers. If a non-DH league, look at your bench and consider pinch hitters you may be likely to use later in the game and want to double-switch for.

04-02-2015, 01:50 PM	#27
Curveball Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 23	Wow, so many input. Thank you very much folks, I have to read it all again, but for the moment I tried that online configurator, and it gave me some different results than OOTP AI. I still have spring training ahead, so I can test various options and hopefully find the one that fits best. Again, thank you very much.

04-02-2015, 02:53 PM	#28
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,303	1) Ideally, a Grady Sizemore in his prime type. High OBP, high power, speed is a bonus but not necessary (and wasted in front of power hitters, to be honest). On my non-dynasty teams it's a high OBP bat with some pop (gap or power) 2) Ideally my best or second best hitter. I've had 300/400/600 type guys bat here with 50 HR power, but depending on how the rest of my roster is I'll usually put the higher OBP guy, lesser ISO guy here compared to #4. 3) Usually my best or one of my best power bats that is flawed for some reason. 4) Best or second best hitter, usually slight edge to either HR power or just being the best all around hitter. 5) Usually a high power bat, similar to #3. 6/7/8/9 - Don't have a specific guideline, just usually go best to worst bat and adjust based on R/L. If players have similar ratings I'll put the speed guy after my last legit power bat, because having a speedster in front of low power bats makes each SB that much more effective. And when possible I'll put the SB threat batting 7th in an NL league so he'll steal in front of the pitcher, and then be sacrificed over to third. I think where I'm different from others is that I just don't value SB that much. I don't care if my leadoff hitters can steal bases, and generally prefer they don't since my 2/3/4 guys are my best power bats and I don't care about going 1st to second when they can just knock em in with a home run. Generally speaking I find it's much easier to hit the 900-1000 runs scored range with obp/power than anything based around speed.

04-02-2015, 04:20 PM	#33
sharkmgs Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 20	1. Best OBP hitter without power 2. 3rd best overall hitter 3. 5th best overall hitter 4. Best hitter with power 5. 4th best overall hitter 6. 6th best hitter. 7. 8. Pitcher in a non-DH league. 9. Best OBP or speed of the last 3 hitters.

04-02-2015, 04:28 PM	#35
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	You know, what I always thought would be an interesting idea is that the first time through the order should not be set in stone. The manager could send his first 9 hitters up in any order he desired as the situation dictated. After that, you'd have to follow the same order.....

04-02-2015, 05:15 PM	#39
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,138	My ideal lineup is as follows: Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout Mike Trout But since I can't generally do that, I'd generally go with the following if making it myself: 1/2: highest avg/OBP, preferably with speed 3: most power 4: best hitter otherwise 5-9 descending order of talent With the caveat that I would swap spots to avoid batting too many same-handed guys. So if my best speed/OBP guys are both lefties, then I'll put my power-only lefty cleanup behind my "best hitter" righty. I'm indifferent to batting the pitcher 8th. I try it sometimes, but find it makes little to no difference. Generally I'll only do it if I feel like I need to change something up from my usual routine.

04-02-2015, 05:32 PM	#40
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	Two other issues with batting your pitcher 8th: 1) You are guaranteeing more at bats to the pitcher's spot over the course of the season. This cannot be good. 2) You are guaranteeing that the pitcher's spot will come up one batter sooner in the late innings. There will be at least a handful of times when this will force you to pinch-hit for a pitcher that you didn't really want to relieve, when he could have stayed in the game 1 inning longer if you had one more at bat to wait for him to come up.