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Old 03-29-2015, 04:30 PM   #61
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Why are you guys still feeding him?
Because he might just be a guy making a mistake and not a troll.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-29-2015, 04:34 PM   #62
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Otrex: my advice is to change your eval settings to 0/67/22/11, trading to very hard, check the setting box to not evaluate players by just ratings, and see if the problem persists. If it does, the next step is to try Stats Only.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-29-2015, 04:50 PM   #63
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1st 10 years run as GM/Manager (on vacation) of the Mets...Early returns don't show a human bias..of course it also could be that Mets thing Taking over Milwaukee (60-101 in 2003)
Just out of curiosity, do you have your "historical simulation accuracy" page available? I'd be curious how close your 1993 is to my 1993.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:54 PM   #64
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Because he might just be a guy making a mistake and not a troll.
Thank you, I genuinely hope it is a settings "fix" and not an inherent problem. That would be quite the long-term troll strategy if I were to register in 2002, and then wait 13 years to unleash the "troll plan", right? Truth is, I've been playing OotP since 1999 or so, and though I've always felt the game was a little bit too easy against AI, with enough house-ruling regarding trades and such, it was still fun to play. This is the first time I've run such an experiment, and I stand behind my claim of "definitely wrong", though I'm willing to accept it may be something definitely-wrong brought on by a combination of my settings.

Would it be helpful if I were to list each and every setting I'm using? I'm not sure if I can upload that information automatically as part of a file or if it's just something I have to enter as text?
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:58 PM   #65
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Thank you, I genuinely hope it is a settings "fix" and not an inherent problem. That would be quite the long-term troll strategy if I were to register in 2002, and then wait 13 years to unleash the "troll plan", right?

Would it be helpful if I were to list each and every setting I'm using? I'm not sure if I can upload that information automatically as part of a file or if it's just something I have to enter as text?
If you upload your league file (only need *.dat files) your current settings would be included. This would be the easiest way for someone to be setup the same as you.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:01 PM   #66
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If you upload your league file (only need *.dat files) your current settings would be included. This would be the easiest way for someone to be setup the same as you.
Okay, that seems reasonable. I've not uploaded to this forum before. To where should I upload? Perhaps a file-share service of some kind?

I'm running the Steam version. Do you happen to know where I can find the .dat files?
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:03 PM   #67
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Here are the next 10 years as MIL. Better results than my 10 years with the Mets but looks like a reasonable progression. Not seeing any human bias.

I agree this isn't a perfect test but if there were a human bias built in with default settings I would expect to see the teams doing much better that these 20 years. Could be something to do with the OP's settings I guess and I'll test it if he can get me his league file (*.dat files).
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:03 PM   #68
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Otrex: my advice is to change your eval settings to 0/67/22/11, trading to very hard, check the setting box to not evaluate players by just ratings, and see if the problem persists. If it does, the next step is to try Stats Only.
I'd be willing to try this. My question is: With the ratings category set to 0, how does the AI evaluate a player at the outset before their rookie season? Perhaps it defaults back to a different method when there are no previous stats?
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:06 PM   #69
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Okay, that seems reasonable. I've not uploaded to this forum before. To where should I upload? Perhaps a file-share service of some kind?

I'm running the Steam version. Do you happen to know where I can find the .dat files?
Err....

I've not used my Steam versions, but I THINK they still put the saved files in your documents folder.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:06 PM   #70
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Okay, that seems reasonable. I've not uploaded to this forum before. To where should I upload? Perhaps a file-share service of some kind?

I'm running the Steam version. Do you happen to know where I can find the .dat files?
Yea you would need to throw it on a file share somewhere and not in the forum. I'm not running the Steam version so I don't know where the league folder is stored. The *.dat files are in the 'saved_games/YOURLEAGUE.lg' folder. Just zip/tar them up.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:08 PM   #71
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Okay, I'll go on the hunt for them, and then upload.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:09 PM   #72
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Otrex: my advice is to change your eval settings to 0/67/22/11, trading to very hard, check the setting box to not evaluate players by just ratings, and see if the problem persists. If it does, the next step is to try Stats Only.
I don't know the answer to this, so I thought I would ask. Wouldn't stats only with real players only make things easier for the human player and harder for the AI? Plus, I thought the OP said he was playing hands off and was GM in name only. In other words, he picks a team, makes himself the GM, but lets the AI do all the rest. Thanks.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:14 PM   #73
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I don't know the answer to this, so I thought I would ask. Wouldn't stats only with real players only make things easier for the human player and harder for the AI? Plus, I thought the OP said he was playing hands off and was GM in name only. In other words, he picks a team, makes himself the GM, but lets the AI do all the rest. Thanks.
That is correct - I am completely hands-off, other than switching teams from year-to-year.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:20 PM   #74
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Okay, I found all the .dat files in the documents folder as previously suggested.

I believe I've included everything needed to test my settings. A thank you for anyone who is willing to do this to confirm or deny my suspicions, or perhaps just point me in a better direction regarding the settings I need to accomplish a valid simulation.

[xxxxxxxxxxx.zip] - file under test

Just before I uploaded I ran a couple more seasons. I put a couple new teams into the league and took over the worst one. It turned around within 2 seasons, though it just missed the World Series win, and again, doing nothing except watching.

Some of these teams, I should note, do not have a minor league system. As a test league, I didn't worry too much about that. The value of a minor league system using the random debut feature is debatable, of course, since everyone comes up "ready to play". I noticed that teams without a minors system still hold their best 40 players, which seems to be more than enough.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:48 PM   #75
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I'd be willing to try this. My question is: With the ratings category set to 0, how does the AI evaluate a player at the outset before their rookie season? Perhaps it defaults back to a different method when there are no previous stats?
Use full minors. Either use feeder leagues or get the best scout you can and follow his recommendations. You will find yourself playing a whole different ballgame, no pun intended.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:50 PM   #76
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I don't know the answer to this, so I thought I would ask. Wouldn't stats only with real players only make things easier for the human player and harder for the AI? Plus, I thought the OP said he was playing hands off and was GM in name only. In other words, he picks a team, makes himself the GM, but lets the AI do all the rest. Thanks.
It would put the AI on a different but still equal footing. I am suggesting things that might possibly solve his problem, but I do not know the answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-29-2015, 06:51 PM   #77
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After Milwaukee I took over the 100 win SD to see if a the Human managed team could stay at the top. Not so good results....not going to run anymore of this, there is absolutely no indication that the human run team has some artificial advantage in this basic test.

I have the file with your league and will take a look at it later this evening.
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:39 PM   #78
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Didn't Markus say that he was testing the download link for the April 1st. version of the game the other day?
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:42 PM   #79
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Other tham being a smarter manager in situations than the ai i dont see any bias at all

This is the key point in the game. Humans handle situations much differently than AI. We sometimes go with the gut feeling or hunches.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:00 PM   #80
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Using the OP's league file I took over 60 win Ottawa.

4 sub .500 seasons then 4 playoffs in 6 years and no championships. Team looks to be on the decline. This cycle does not seem at all unusual though it is only 1 run through. But the OP is indicating that every time he takes over a team it turns things around within a season or 2 and what I see from my run isn't that.
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