Are there any improvements to the feeder system?

[jpeters1734]

Just for shiggles, I went back and looked at the Pirates 2008 top 20 prospects and it was depressing lol

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

So it shouldn't be possible to draft well just based on stats in OOTP. There needs to be plenty of exceptions to the general 'great prospect, great stats' rule of thumb, enough to get you in real trouble if all you're looking at is stats. And I do think the game does ok with this now.

That's all I'm saying.

I'm gonna repeat myself here and just say: this is why there needs to be a third way of playing other than "scouting" and "stats only." My sense is that these guys are all committed "stats only" guys who nonetheless want to be able to draft intelligently. They don't want to switch over to see ratings before the draft, because that would feel like cheating. On the other hand, drafting without them is an exercise in dart-throwing. If there was a "ratings only for amateurs" mode, problem solved.

Or maybe a better thing to do would be to just eliminate all HS stats -- since we all seem to agree they're not worth much -- and only have (generated) college stats. Do you take the 21 year old who has 3 years of established track record at a D1 school, or do you take the 18 year old based on the say-so of your scouts and the fact that he is regarded as a "likely first-round talent"? Or maybe more intriguingly, it says "likely fifth-round pick," but your scout is swearing the kid has superstar potential. Hmmm .... how much do you trust that scout? Roll the dice or take the safe, polished college kid that hit .356 in the SEC?

That seems to me like a real simulation of what draft decisions are like.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

What I'm trying to see is that these kinds of players DO get drafted, but most of them bust out.

Don't they get drafted? I guess I'm not seeing where these guys aren't in OOTP?

Two pitch starters with a poor third pitch who would need to gain velocity, command or that third pitch to even crack an MLB team.

I know Von Rosenburg says three pitches, but that's a bit of what I'm talking about when I say most scouting reports are overly optimistic. When the best that can be said about a pitch is "a changeup with deception" you know it's not actually a good pitch currently.

Plus those reports don't even make the second pitches sound more than average. So we're talking guys with slightly above average velocity, one good, one average and one average to below average pitch.

Those type of guys seem to me like they're are all over OOTP drafts, you can easily get them in the fourth or sixth rounds, or later, or am I wrong on that?

Maybe I'm just not understanding where you're coming from here, which might be my fault. I'm not trying to argue or reflexively oppose you here, and I'm open to being convinced.

I'm just struggling to grasp what you think OOTP needs to change in these cases.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by frangipard

I'm gonna repeat myself here and just say: this is why there needs to be a third way of playing other than "scouting" and "stats only." My sense is that these guys are all committed "stats only" guys who nonetheless want to be able to draft intelligently. They don't want to switch over to see ratings before the draft, because that would feel like cheating. On the other hand, drafting without them is an exercise in dart-throwing. If there was a "ratings only for amateurs" mode, problem solved.

I like the "ratings only for amateurs" mode idea.

I'm a stats only guy for the most part. My solution is to turn on ratings only for the draft, then to turn them off immediately after the draft. It would be nice to have that as a preset option though.

There is a third way already though, which is what most use, scouting and stats

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Just for shiggles, I went back and looked at the Pirates 2008 top 20 prospects and it was depressing lol

I'm a Mets fan and looking at their early 2000's drafts and prospect lists, talk about depressing

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

There is a third way already though, which is what most use, scouting and stats

Well, yeah. That's what all intelligent people like me use. I'm just looking out for the mule-headed folks.

[mpejkrm]

As I said I'm going to put this issue to bed and just be fine with what we have and just hope for improvements to the schools/stats of the generated prospects, not their ratings. I don't think we're on the same page here.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I would like to have those things if I want (I usually don't, but I do like the idea of feeder leagues).

So do I.

I just think that as a community we are stalemated here. I highly doubt that the team necessary to overhaul a system that works fairly-well in its current form would rule the need a high priority.

With all of that said, I agree with jpeters that a simple solution for those of us that don't want the weight of feeders would be increase the data of the computer-generated players.

While I do not ask that the work of the designers should be put to use in redesigning feeders I do agree strongly with the ideas that jpeters brought forth.

I think it is a more elegant solution in relation to the actual use of feeder leagues.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

such as Wil Myers.

Will Myers is an overrated bum. He's a loafer. He will never pan out.

[Assos]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Will Myers is an overrated bum. He's a loafer. He will never pan out.

As an Orlandian or Orlandvillian and someone who has watched a lot of Rays baseball, I agree. I hope San Diego is happy with Jason Bay Jr.

[mpejkrm]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Will Myers is an overrated bum. He's a loafer. He will never pan out.

Even if he doesn't do anything more in his career, for a guy with a whole lot of question marks but the raw ability coming out of the draft, I'd say a ROY is a nice trophy to have. And I highly doubt he goes anywhere but up.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by honorable_pawn

will myers is a bust there ear.

ftfy

[jhart05]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I never use feeders personally either, I don't see the point. It slows the game down, you can only have a limited number of leagues / teams unless you want your computer to explode etc.

To make it close to real life we'd have to simulate thousands of teams / leagues properly, and this would produce data which most PCs simply cannot handle.

So, in a nutshell, feeders have not been worked on in OOTP 16 and I have no plans to spend significant time on that future unless every PC has 16 GB of RAM.

Couple of rules tweaks would be nice thou.

Like the OP mentioned when a player enters the draft but doesn't get drafted, if he still has eligibility he will go back to his original team.

Similar deal with the High School players going to College teams. If the HS doesn't get drafted he goes to the College Ranks.

Could also have some players forgo the draft and decide to go to College.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by jhart05

Couple of rules tweaks would be nice thou.

Like the OP mentioned when a player enters the draft but doesn't get drafted, if he still has eligibility he will go back to his original team.

Similar deal with the High School players going to College teams. If the HS doesn't get drafted he goes to the College Ranks.

Could also have some players forgo the draft and decide to go to College.

Absolutely. The feeder system would work perfectly for me if I could just have my one 10 team college league filled with the un-drafted players.

Players that don't sign will be placed in the league but all of the un-drafted players simply get released into the FA pool.

Players that forgo the draft can still be drafted. they are marked impossible and just won't sign.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by frangipard

Well, yeah. That's what all intelligent people like me use. I'm just looking out for the mule-headed folks.

Funny guy!

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Absolutely. The feeder system would work perfectly for me if I could just have my one 10 team college league filled with the un-drafted players.

Players that don't sign will be placed in the league but all of the un-drafted players simply get released into the FA pool.

Players that forgo the draft can still be drafted. they are marked impossible and just won't sign.

I don't keep close track of my feeders, but isn't that what happens? I've definitely seen undrafted/unsigned high schoolers rack up college stats and enter the league with like 8 years of feeder league data.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I don't keep close track of my feeders, but isn't that what happens? I've definitely seen undrafted/unsigned high schoolers rack up college stats and enter the league with like 8 years of feeder league data.

No, I have never seen an un-drafted high school player enter the college feeder. The only time is when they are drafted, but don't sign.

I think part of the problem is that as soon as a player is drafted from a feeder team, a replacement player gets created and added to the team. Therefore, there is never a need for a college team to sign an un-drafted high schooler.

A fix for that would be an option to disallow player creation for a college feeder, or have them create players at a later date.

[conception]

I use feeders because my primary league is much more akin to the NFL than MLB, teams can't trade so they build most of their team through the draft. Also, draft eligible players are near their max potential and usually capable of performing right away, though that can vary. I live and die by the success of my draft picks. I know that I either hit on my draft pick or spend millions in FA, which I can only do so much before I run out of money. I have to use feeders to give me stats to help me evaluate a player, and I can also judge factors such as park factors (did the guy have good numbers because of a hitter's park?) and can also use the stats to counterbalance my scout. My scout may rate him like a 40 homer guy, but if he didn't have the power in college, he is likely wrong.

[WillyW3]

Could there be the option to add the eligibility section to an independent feeder league? (The Feeder League Settings from a directly added feeder league)

We can still set the age min/max when creating an indy feeder but it would be helpful to have the ability to set draft eligibility. Saves seeing all 22 year old college players in the draft.