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Old 09-11-2019, 12:55 PM   #241
Westheim
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How is a 23-year-old prospect going to be tested for the majors in AAA when AAA is full of other 23-year-olds, 26-year-olds that didn't cut it the last three years, and 32-year-old has-beens that are hoping someone breaks a leg so they can get called up?
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:31 PM   #242
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How is a 23-year-old prospect going to be tested for the majors in AAA when AAA is full of other 23-year-olds, 26-year-olds that didn't cut it the last three years, and 32-year-old has-beens that are hoping someone breaks a leg so they can get called up?
By playing head and shoulders above those other 23 - 26 year olds, that's how.

The current system is to molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues, only to make the decision of major league ability based on how well they play when called up to the majors.

Work your butt off in the minors, play better than everyone else in the minors. You'll get called up, don't worry.

I know, hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days, but it really does pay off.

Last edited by Bluenoser; 09-11-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:54 PM   #243
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I've always felt things should be reversed with the first month of the season being when teams could use expanded rosters. It's cold out, players are rusty etc. in April. Let teams make use of the extra players till May 1st.
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:38 PM   #244
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By playing head and shoulders above those other 23 - 26 year olds, that's how.

The current system is to molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues, only to make the decision of major league ability based on how well they play when called up to the majors.

Work your butt off in the minors, play better than everyone else in the minors. You'll get called up, don't worry.

I know, hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days, but it really does pay off.
Expanded rosters have been around since 1921, so it seems a bit odd to get a "these kids nowadays" complaint about them. With a "molly-coddled" there, the only thing missing is a "get off my lawn" and a reference to "wait until the Millennials have to deal with the real world".

I have to wonder about your definition of "molly-coddling". Players earn an average of about $6K in Single A, and about $15K. No per diems, don't get paid during spring training or in fall leagues. Outside of the top prospects, they get to pay for their own equipment.

I am hardly a spring chicken myself, and there are plenty of changes I am not used to, but I don't think I have ever thought of minor league baseball as any sort of happy go lucky time.

Back to the idea of roster expansion, I don't think you get a true picture of how a prospect is doing, until you put him against some major league opposition, be it an injury call-up or fall expansion. I have always been uneasy about roster expansion because of the integrity of the games played, especially when my team is trying to catch up and the guys at the top are playing against a team with nothing prospects in the line up.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:37 PM   #245
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Expanded rosters have been around since 1921, so it seems a bit odd to get a "these kids nowadays" complaint about them. With a "molly-coddled" there, the only thing missing is a "get off my lawn" and a reference to "wait until the Millennials have to deal with the real world".

I have to wonder about your definition of "molly-coddling". Players earn an average of about $6K in Single A, and about $15K. No per diems, don't get paid during spring training or in fall leagues. Outside of the top prospects, they get to pay for their own equipment.

I am hardly a spring chicken myself, and there are plenty of changes I am not used to, but I don't think I have ever thought of minor league baseball as any sort of happy go lucky time.

Back to the idea of roster expansion, I don't think you get a true picture of how a prospect is doing, until you put him against some major league opposition, be it an injury call-up or fall expansion. I have always been uneasy about roster expansion because of the integrity of the games played, especially when my team is trying to catch up and the guys at the top are playing against a team with nothing prospects in the line up.
So who said it was a happy go lucky time?

At one point in time there were no minors either, but baseball managed to get by. The vast majority of minor leaguers never make it to the majors. The ones who work hard at maximizing their talent (funny, there's that "hard work" term again) make it to the bigs. Like I said, play hard, work hard, if you have the talent you'll get noticed and called up.

I stand by my original question - why do you need to bring them up to see if they're ready? If they're playing and working hard, they'll get called up. They'll get noticed because they'll stand out above their peers.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:18 PM   #246
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So who said it was a happy go lucky time?

At one point in time there were no minors either, but baseball managed to get by. The vast majority of minor leaguers never make it to the majors. The ones who work hard at maximizing their talent (funny, there's that "hard work" term again) make it to the bigs. Like I said, play hard, work hard, if you have the talent you'll get noticed and called up.

I stand by my original question - why do you need to bring them up to see if they're ready? If they're playing and working hard, they'll get called up. They'll get noticed because they'll stand out above their peers.
Maybe I misunderstood "molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues", combined with " hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days". I thought you meant that the players were lazing their way through the minors.

True, the current style of minor-league organization didn't come about until the '30s, but its been here for quite a while.

The half a dozen to a dozen players who get brought up to the expanded rosters have been the one who stood above their peers, usually through that same hard work you mentioned, but it still helped teams to get a look at how they would do against major-league competition.

Is it "necessary", probably not, but it is a good evaluation tool. If a player can't make the transition from AA or AAA to the majors, or needs to work on something that you only realize when he reaches the top, the earlier a team finds out the better. It may mean having him work on something in the fall leagues and spring training, or it may mean realizing he isn't going to be productive at the top level, but teams like to find out as soon as possible.

Sorry if I over-reacted, but the snark about "hard work" being a concept people don't understand set my teeth on edge. While I am quite willing to throw out the occasional "in my day" at my kids, it is usually with a grin and a wink. People still work hard today and it still gets rewarded more than taking it easy does, in the vast majority of circumstances.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:45 PM   #247
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I've always felt things should be reversed with the first month of the season being when teams could use expanded rosters. It's cold out, players are rusty etc. in April. Let teams make use of the extra players till May 1st.
Nice idea. But teams already hold players back an extra month to delay the clock on their ML service time. So I wonder how that would out. But cool idea.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:07 PM   #248
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Maybe I misunderstood "molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues", combined with " hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days". I thought you meant that the players were lazing their way through the minors.

True, the current style of minor-league organization didn't come about until the '30s, but its been here for quite a while.

The half a dozen to a dozen players who get brought up to the expanded rosters have been the one who stood above their peers, usually through that same hard work you mentioned, but it still helped teams to get a look at how they would do against major-league competition.

Is it "necessary", probably not, but it is a good evaluation tool. If a player can't make the transition from AA or AAA to the majors, or needs to work on something that you only realize when he reaches the top, the earlier a team finds out the better. It may mean having him work on something in the fall leagues and spring training, or it may mean realizing he isn't going to be productive at the top level, but teams like to find out as soon as possible.

Sorry if I over-reacted, but the snark about "hard work" being a concept people don't understand set my teeth on edge. While I am quite willing to throw out the occasional "in my day" at my kids, it is usually with a grin and a wink. People still work hard today and it still gets rewarded more than taking it easy does, in the vast majority of circumstances.
I don't say it with a grin, I say it with all seriousness. I see examples of it everyday. Far too many people trying to get a free ride rather than put in the work. That doesn't mean everyone, there are lots who work hard too.

If that sets your teeth on edge, that's on you. I make no apology for calling it the way I see it.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:20 PM   #249
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Nice idea. But teams already hold players back an extra month to delay the clock on their ML service time. So I wonder how that would out. But cool idea.
This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:12 PM   #250
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This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
I'm not sure. I am pretty sure the MLBPA would object to anything that would delay their players from getting the big money.
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:04 PM   #251
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This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
A player has to be on the 40 man roster to play in September.
And they are accruing service time

They only use an option when they are removed from the active roster (unless placed on the DL, or similar)
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Old 09-11-2019, 08:07 PM   #252
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I'm not sure. I am pretty sure the MLBPA would object to anything that would delay their players from getting the big money.
Then they could try to bargain for, say, a reduction in the number of days to equal a full season. If it were just 140 to qualify for a full season, they'd almost certainly take it. It would be like getting service time for those 30 days anyway, but it wouldn't be confined to April

Or less years before free agency.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:20 PM   #253
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Johnathan Villar hits the 6106th HR of the 2019 season

That's the most ever
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:34 AM   #254
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:32 PM   #255
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How is Cisheck a major league pitcher on a playoff contending team? I just dont see it. Everytime I see him he is walking people all over the stadium and blowing leads.
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:41 PM   #256
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How is Cisheck a major league pitcher on a playoff contending team? I just dont see it. Everytime I see him he is walking people all over the stadium and blowing leads.
Probably because he pitches when you don't watch

He walks about 10% of hitters which is a bit above average.
His FIP and xFIP are about average too

He's something like an average reliever.
Playoff teams need average players
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:45 PM   #257
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Probably because he pitches when you don't watch
Do you have a stat to prove this? And maybe he only walks people when its clutch time...like bases loaded in the bottom of the 10th
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:28 AM   #258
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Robo umps can't come fast enough.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:05 PM   #259
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Yes, I agree now. And NOT because it was a Yankee victimized in that video!

I know I stood up for humanity in the Robo Umps thread, but what I was not realizing at the time was, it's too late for that. Why? Because now you have overhead cameras and other technology such as the strike box superimposed on the TV screen.

These devices have already taken the humanity out of that aspect of the game and what is left is, frankly, human folly. Instead of honoring humanity, it is shown in a bad light. Umpires missing balls and strikes, and other calls, goes back to an era before instant replay, high definition, and jumbotron.

Do you want me to dig up that thread and say so? You make the call, Cobra Mgr.
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:45 PM   #260
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Yes, I agree now. And NOT because it was a Yankee victimized in that video!

I know I stood up for humanity in the Robo Umps thread, but what I was not realizing at the time was, it's too late for that. Why? Because now you have overhead cameras and other technology such as the strike box superimposed on the TV screen.

These devices have already taken the humanity out of that aspect of the game and what is left is, frankly, human folly. Instead of honoring humanity, it is shown in a bad light. Umpires missing balls and strikes, and other calls, goes back to an era before instant replay, high definition, and jumbotron.

Do you want me to dig up that thread and say so? You make the call, Cobra Mgr.
Really??



Nah. I ain't like that. Especially when there is no right or wrong. The topic is an opinion. Better yet, a preference. No one has to apologize for wanting what they want.
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