Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 21 > OOTP 21 - General Discussions

OOTP 21 - General Discussions Everything about the brand new version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2020, 02:45 PM   #1
LeviWyatt
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 5
Tips for developing prospects?

I’m very new to ootp and have been running a sim as the Yankees. I’ve had a couple of very high draft picks because I managed to completely destroy the team in my first couple seasons (lol) but even drafting first overall my prospects haven’t really panned out at all. I’ve recently started drafting catchers with high catcher ability to come up with my pitchers that I draft from another tip that I saw but I still have a couple of questions. It’s hard to find a catcher higher than 2 star potential in a lot of drafts so will those catchers still be helpful for my pitchers? How do I ensure my other prospects besides pitchers develop well? And also I’ve seen other teams have scouting discovery players turn into 3.5-5 star potential players, yet mine always are half star potential and seem to never really develop more than that (occasionally 1-2 stars but never 3-5). I have a scout who is at least great at everything and I think excellent or legendary for amateur. I also don’t know how to see my scouts ratings for pitchers vs batters. I’m not sure that exists but I thought I saw that somewhere. Any help is appreciated!shareit appvn

Last edited by LeviWyatt; 04-06-2020 at 05:33 AM.
LeviWyatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 02:51 PM   #2
qcbandits
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,441
Infractions: 0/4 (4)
one of the keys to player development is to balance leaving a prospect at a level too long vs promoting too aggressively
qcbandits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 03:16 PM   #3
lukestephens2293
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 218
dont promote them too early
__________________
“The more you play baseball, the less depends on your athletic ability. It’s a mental war more than anything.” – Alex Rodriguez
lukestephens2293 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 04:21 PM   #4
SirMichaelJordan
Hall Of Famer
 
SirMichaelJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,609
I personally delegate to my assistant GM and only focus on a select few prospects making sure that they are at the correct levels for their talent.
SirMichaelJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 04:50 PM   #5
Syd Thrift
Hall Of Famer
 
Syd Thrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 9,825
Don’t promote them too quickly or too slowly (although a lot of the time, if a guy you thought was a top prospect is developing too slowly, he’s probably not as good as you thought he was), have good coaches at all levels, and beyond that, have enough good prospects (especially when it comes to pitching) that when some of your guys inevitably don’t develop you can turn to the ones that did.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn
You bastard....
The Great American Baseball Thrift Book - Like reading the Sporting News from back in the day, only with fake players. REAL LIFE DRAMA THOUGH maybe not
Syd Thrift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 04:53 PM   #6
greenOak
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 202
Be luckier.

Seriously, dumb luck has by far the biggest impact on developing prospects.
greenOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 06:33 PM   #7
jimmysthebestcop
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,728
Infractions: 0/2 (5)
Honestly catchers are the worst. So don't go by them.

You have to micro your top prospects. Lock them to which league you think they need to play at. And force start them at their position so they get 100% playing time except when tired.

Go by stats. Don't rely on star ratings. They are there to catch the eye when looking at 100 players.

Have all your top prospects on a shortlist is for easy looking up and comparison.

Settle on which stats you judge hitters and pitchers by. Example batters I am using woba, WRC+ mostly some ops+. I might want to track individual stats like hr, bb, k, and sb. Just so I know what type of player they may develop into. You see a guy in A with 80 sb you know he fast without looking up his rating.

I suggest using a lot of the stats fan graphs use to judge players.


Get your prospects those at bats. It doesn't matter if you have to play them out of position. Especially in minors. Example in mlb your 1st b is usually a power guy. In minors if I happen to have lots of OF prospects he might be my zero power CF. I want my top guys getting those at bats regardless of position.
jimmysthebestcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 10:05 PM   #8
ablobj
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan View Post
I personally delegate to my assistant GM and only focus on a select few prospects making sure that they are at the correct levels for their talent.
I'm the laziest GM on the planet, lol...I delegate ALL of my responsibilities to my assistant, except for the first year player draft (and even that, I autodraft after the first 3 or 4 rounds), and my team is a perpetual contender with 3 world championships in 15 years...Perhaps I have "cracked the code"???
ablobj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2020, 10:22 PM   #9
jimmysthebestcop
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,728
Infractions: 0/2 (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ablobj View Post
I'm the laziest GM on the planet, lol...I delegate ALL of my responsibilities to my assistant, except for the first year player draft (and even that, I autodraft after the first 3 or 4 rounds), and my team is a perpetual contender with 3 world championships in 15 years...Perhaps I have "cracked the code"???
Well what team are you playing with? Some teams are obviously better from a market size and financial outlook aspect.

If you are playing with like say the Marlins and let the AI do everything it probably would take a decade to climb out of the basement.

Those tiny teams are lucky to afford 2 long term players over 5 years. So you can almost never sign a free agent star or even extend your homegrown players once they are nearing the end of arbitration. You might not even afford some arbitration deals depending if they reached super star status.

Gigantic difference from the top market teams Dodgers, RSox, Yankees, Cubs . But even a big difference from the normal teams Phillies, Nationals, Braves, Rockies.
jimmysthebestcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 01:01 AM   #10
One Post Wonder
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenOak View Post
Be luckier.

Seriously, dumb luck has by far the biggest impact on developing prospects.
This is the main thing. Unless you're in commissioner mode you won't have any idea whether your coaches are any good or not, so that part is sheer luck.

You can help your odds a bit with your promotions but most of your prospects still aren't going to amount to anything.

Anyway, with promotions I generally promote batters who have 2 WAR for the season at the level they're playing at, and pitchers who have an above average ERA for their league along with roughly 1.5 strikeouts per walks. How good their K/W needs to be and their ERA depends on how many innings they have.

I'll shade that a bit depending on how they're being used. I raise the criteria if a batter is putting up good superficial numbers but hitting 8th, or a pitcher with good numbers is being used as a middle reliever or 5th starter. That's telling me that their manager doesn't think they're very good.

Also players know how good they are. If a guy thinks he should be in the majors, he is usually right. At the very least I'll promote them to AAA as soon as I see that. Likewise I'm a bit leery of a player in AAA with good stats who isn't pushing to get promoted. I'll leave them in AAA a bit longer to make sure those stats are legit before I move them up.

I let my assistant do the draft because drafting bores the hell out of me.
One Post Wonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 07:06 AM   #11
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
micromanagement is key, lol. Checkout the link in my sig
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 11:07 AM   #12
SirMichaelJordan
Hall Of Famer
 
SirMichaelJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
micromanagement is key, lol. Checkout the link in my sig
Good stuff. That’s should be stickied.
SirMichaelJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 11:27 AM   #13
eas9898
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Post Wonder View Post
This is the main thing. Unless you're in commissioner mode you won't have any idea whether your coaches are any good or not, so that part is sheer luck.

This is a part of the game that needs work. You can't even go by reputation, as there are plenty of Great/Excellent coaches that have average stats, and Poor coaches with good stats.



Without giving any clues, it's kind of silly to select coaches, as you can only really do it based on Type and maybe Relationships.
eas9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 12:02 PM   #14
Syd Thrift
Hall Of Famer
 
Syd Thrift's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 9,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by eas9898 View Post
This is a part of the game that needs work. You can't even go by reputation, as there are plenty of Great/Excellent coaches that have average stats, and Poor coaches with good stats.



Without giving any clues, it's kind of silly to select coaches, as you can only really do it based on Type and maybe Relationships.
Strongly disagree. IRL you don’t see a guy’s “true ratings” either; all you have is their reputation and the results they’ve achieved. Yes, sometimes you’ll hire a guy with a great rep and he’ll turn out to be... Dusty Baker, but if we knew someone was going to be Dusty Baker going in, nobody would ever hire Dusty Baker.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn
You bastard....
The Great American Baseball Thrift Book - Like reading the Sporting News from back in the day, only with fake players. REAL LIFE DRAMA THOUGH maybe not
Syd Thrift is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 12:07 PM   #15
eas9898
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd Thrift View Post
Strongly disagree. IRL you don’t see a guy’s “true ratings” either; all you have is their reputation and the results they’ve achieved. Yes, sometimes you’ll hire a guy with a great rep and he’ll turn out to be... Dusty Baker, but if we knew someone was going to be Dusty Baker going in, nobody would ever hire Dusty Baker.

I understand your point... But by the same measure, why do we use ratings to evaluate players? We should just look at stats (or maybe even reputation ).
eas9898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 12:08 PM   #16
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd Thrift View Post
Strongly disagree. IRL you don’t see a guy’s “true ratings” either; all you have is their reputation and the results they’ve achieved. Yes, sometimes you’ll hire a guy with a great rep and he’ll turn out to be... Dusty Baker, but if we knew someone was going to be Dusty Baker going in, nobody would ever hire Dusty Baker.
I believe the problem lies in the fact that OOTP hasn't really decided what it wants. Back when they "overhauled" how coaches are represented, they wanted players to focus on the reputation. But at the same time, they hid development and relationship ratings in the coach profile. And since the game gave no indication, and still doesn't, on how reputation is determined, users ignore the rep and go into the manager's profile to find the best development guy. Finally they added those to the personnel tab so that we can sort by it.

The coach system is in dire need of redesign. I posted a long ass suggestion a few years back that was ignored. I'll try to find it and hopefully get it revived

EDIT: Found it. This was from 2017 but much of it is still valid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
The coaching model in OOTP needs an overhaul. I know that it was changed back in OOTP 16, but after almost 3 years, it feels more and more like a setback.

• Bench coaches are not represented properly. I don’t like how the manual says that bench coaches focus more on running and fielding development. That’s not really true. Bench coaches serve as an advisor/second opinion/friend/backup to the manager. The only training they coordinate is the basic pregame stuff, like stretching. The base coaches will usually handle that workload. Not always of course.

• It’s time to implement base coaches and training roles. They are an important part of the game. Base coaches will coordinate infield/outfield practice, base running, and catcher instruction. If anyone’s played football manager, they know what I’m going to say. In FM, you hire guys as general coaches and can assign them to specific training responsibilities based off their strengths. If this was applied in OOTP, then you could have the roles of pitching coach, bullpen coach, hitting coach, outfield, infield, catcher, and base running instructors. The instructor roles could be assigned a 2nd job as a 3B/1B coach.

You could say that we don’t need instructors because they are rolled up into managers and bench coaches. I’d say that a terrible option because you simply have no feedback whatsoever on a coach’s strengths currently. What if a bench coach was amazing a teaching fielding but didn’t know squat about base running? The development tab doesn’t show that. And if it did, it would still a bad option. So, would I just not hire the coach because he can’t teach base running? A real team would hire him for his fielding expertise and would have someone else teach base running. Consider a quote from Joe Maddon regarding a new hire, “Part of his background is he's an excellent third-base coach and he's really an outstanding base running coach, and we wanted to add that skill set to our group,". Adding base coaches and training roles will make the personnel model more engaging and relevant.

• It’s a royal pain in the *butt to find managers and coaches that fit my style. It’s even more of a pain when I find the coach I want, he isn’t interested in coaching at any level but the majors. When I have to click 200-500 times to make an offer to one coach, it removes all the fun. We really need a way to filter out who’s not interested. If I’m searching for a hitting coach for my rookie league, I should not be flooded with hundreds of guys that won’t sign. It wastes time, energy, and is the leading cause why people just turn it off all together. Just let me just enter into a field that I’m looking for a hitting coach for rookie league with a patience preference and only show me those guys that are interested.

• Once I have a list of interested coaches, who should I hire? This is perhaps the most striking example of why the current system is so unrealistic and difficult. What criteria do I have to make that determination? If I’m looking for a hitting coach, there are a few pieces of information available to me; age, experience, focus, reputation, team record, batting average and canned description based off the reputation and focus.

I decide I want a hitting coach with a power focus so I’ve narrowed my list of candidates to 30. Now what do I use, reputation? Does anyone actually know what reputation is based on? Is it based on his ability to develop? Is it based on batting stats, win/loss records, or championships? Is it based on the ability to keep aging veterans sharp on their game? No one knows. A single reputation rating is simply not enough information to make a determination. Do I look at age or experience? I could, but it doesn’t really tell you anything meaningful. Team record obviously shouldn’t be a factor since there’s more that goes into a win than hitting. Side note: many people think the win/loss record is what primarily drives the reputation and if true, makes it even more insane to just go by it. The last thing is a record of team batting average. I know I don’t have to explain the flaw with only using batting average as a measure of a hitting coach’s success.

The only true piece of information I have to hire a hitting coach is preference. Aside from that, I’m essentially making a blind and random decision. This is not realistic, nor is it engaging. It just turns the whole model into a senseless and unsatisfying process.

• The question now is what should we have available to us so we can make informed decisions? We need to bring back the ratings. I know removing them was thought to have made it more realistic, but it’s only caused more problems. I’m not suggesting changing it to how it was in 15, but re-imagining it. A problem I had with it was that the unknown and inexperienced ratings meant that they were terrible at it. It should just be a placeholder until the coach develops some kind of track record. There should also be more fields. Like I said above, there are hitting, pitching, bullpen coaches, IF, OF, C, and base running instructors. All of those should be represented and that will allow us to construct our coaching staff around its strengths and weaknesses. The handle vets, rookies, and players ratings should probably be changed to something more understandable. If a coach is great with rookies, does that mean he’s great with 38 year olds that have never made an ML appearance? He’s technically a rookie. The ratings should be something like fundamentals (for prospects or development) and adjustments (for veterans or to prevent decline).

If bringing back ratings is simply not on the table, what do we do? We would need some way to see the track record of a coach. Who did he work with, who developed under him, who failed to develop, who’s career did he turn around? These are vital pieces of information if we want to make an informed decision for a coach.

Some other random ideas on the topic are:

• Managers should have more control on who the coaches are that we hire. Maybe managers should have to bless off on a coach or you run the risk of him either resigning or refusing to sign an extension. I know some player GMs want to sign coaches with certain preferences so maybe that can be another layer to a manager hire, who he wants to be on his staff. If a manager favors OBP and power, he’d be opposed to hiring a hitting coach with a contact preference.

• Relationships. Many times, managers like to bring on coaches they’ve worked with in the past. This would give the coaching model a little bit more life.

• Player relationships. Why is it that we are able to see player relationships with a manager before we even hire the guy? This seems backwards. You fire a manager once all the players had a bad relationship. You can’t know that until he’s already been in the seat.

• Sign coaches from other teams. This one is simple. Plenty of managers are hired from other team’s coaching staff. We shouldn’t have to wait until another team’s bench coach is a free agent before we can make him our manager.



I know this is a lot, but I feel this is one area of the game that is really lacking. I know my suggestions are not perfect but I hope it's enough to get the conversation going. If the personnel model stays the same for OOTP 19, I think a lot of people will be disappointed.
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

Last edited by jpeters1734; 04-06-2020 at 12:18 PM.
jpeters1734 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 12:35 PM   #17
SirMichaelJordan
Hall Of Famer
 
SirMichaelJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,609
Yea I don’t want to a the game of “hire the best rated coach in all categories and leave it alone”

I rather have information like his rep, personality, how would he mesh with my team, development influence, his area of expertise and what he’s good at. Not necessarily his written out numbers.

Rep is based on “success” the previous years it wasn’t that well put together as it is now. You can track some staff members and see how it fluctuates. I still think staff members at non major leagues are given too high of reputations but i do only notice it from guys who been with a team for decades. Maybe if the game had a true coach carousel with poaching of coaches things would look better.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 04-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
SirMichaelJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 12:58 PM   #18
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan View Post
Yea I don’t want to a the game of “hire the best rated coach in all categories and leave it alone”

I rather have information like his rep, personality, how would he mesh with my team, development influence, his area of expertise and what he’s good at. Not necessarily his written out numbers.

Rep is based on “success” the previous years it wasn’t that well put together as it is now. You can track some staff members and see how it fluctuates. I still think staff members at non major leagues are given too high of reputations but i do only notice it from guys who been with a team for decades. Maybe if the game had a true coach carousel with poaching of coaches things would look better.
There was never written out numbers for coaches. The way it was before is no different than us being able to search by development influence. Since reputation literally affects nothing, most people just hire the one with the best development influence. I just don't think they fixed anything with coaches.
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 01:12 PM   #19
SirMichaelJordan
Hall Of Famer
 
SirMichaelJordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpeters1734 View Post
There was never written out numbers for coaches. The way it was before is no different than us being able to search by development influence. Since reputation literally affects nothing, most people just hire the one with the best development influence. I just don't think they fixed anything with coaches.

Even the old way people were going into the editor looking at the true values.

It’s the same as before but with just dev influence bunched into one category. Highest dev influence doesn’t necessarily mean best guy available. Before you would just try to get the best coach at each category. But this was before things like relationship mattered. If anything rep should have an effect on fan interests. I don’t think it does currently but other than representing success, it shouldn’t matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SirMichaelJordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2020, 01:26 PM   #20
jpeters1734
Hall Of Famer
 
jpeters1734's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Juust a bit outside...
Posts: 5,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan View Post
Even the old way people were going into the editor looking at the true values.

It’s the same as before but with just dev influence bunched into one category. Highest dev influence doesn’t necessarily mean best guy available. Before you would just try to get the best coach at each category. But this was before things like relationship mattered. If anything rep should have an effect on fan interests. I don’t think it does currently but other than representing success, it shouldn’t matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think it matters much that people can look in the editor for true ratings. They could do it then and they can now.
__________________
"Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!!

Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com

An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21

Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet
jpeters1734 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:42 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments