Thread for player identification in team photos

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Here are Swartzel and Donahue. Both of them were with the club in Philadelphia, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't both be in the photo. If the photo was taken right when Kansas City got into town, Mattimore would be out, and both Swartzel and Donahue could be in.

Any thoughts as to the unknown player, given the timing of the photo?

[cinemaodyssey]

Though I've never seen him pictured with a mustache, I think Swartzel is a decent match for the remaining unidentified player.

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Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Though I've never seen him pictured with a mustache, I think Swartzel is a decent match for the remaining unidentified player.

I was wondering if the player identified as Mattimore was actually Swartzel, which still leaves me guessing about the unknown player. The timing of the photo is to me the big question. Swartzel played in one of the two games on September 2 and Donahue played in both. Then on September 3 Mattimore joined the club, and neither Swartzel or Donahue was in the game that day. Both Mattimore and Donahue played in the second game on September 4. (Mattimore played in the first game that day as well.) Swartzel sat that day.

So how would a photo be taken with Mattimore, but not one of Donahue or Swartzel? I'm thinking it is more likely the photo was taken on September 2, and Mattimore isn't in it.

I don't have a great photo of Mattimore (as can be seen in my blowup).

[cinemaodyssey]

Here's one more photo of Mattimore, from 1888 Philadelphia Athletics team composite.

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Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Here's one more photo of Mattimore, from 1888 Philadelphia Athletics team composite.

That is a vast improvement over the photos I had. Thanks.

Here then is Swartzel, the player from the Kansas City Team Photo, and Mattimore, side-by-side. Swartzel's right ear seems a little more square at the bottom, but I can't tell if that is the just angle of the photo.

[cinemaodyssey]

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but here is a better look at Swartzel's ear. It's from another of his 1888 Old Judge cards. With the eyeball test, it appears that Mattimore is a better match based on the shape and length of his ears/earlobes.

[cinemaodyssey]

After examining it further, I think what is skewing the results is the texture of the photo. It's close, but the shape of the head, chin and nose really do look like Swartzel.

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The photo is here for reference:
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...1&d=1631470573

The front row looks to be (left to right): Herman Long, Jim Conway, Joe Gunson, Bill Watkins, Jim Manning, John Sowders, Billy Hamilton. Matches were given previously.

The back row I think should get an overhaul from what was proposed. From left to right: Jim Burns (5' 7"), Dan Stearns (6' 1"), Billy Alvord (5' 10"), Unknown 1, Unknown 2. The player I think is Stearns was originally proposed as John McCarty, but he was gone from the club before the photo was taken. Unknown 1 and Unknown 2 I think are Park Swartzel and Jim Donahue.
9/23/2021: After some offline discussion, the consensus seems to be that Donahue is Unknown 1 and Swartzel is Unknown 2

Here is Stearns, compared to the second player in the back row. The center photo is an Old Judge card from spring 1888. The right photo is from an 1887 cabinet of the Topeka Giants.

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Here are comparisons of the two unknown players with Swartzel and Donahue. The mustache on the last player in the back row (Unknown 2) is what throws me a bit. But I think Donahue is Unknown 1 and Swartzel is Unknown 2. The slightly rounder nose on Unknown 1 seems to match Donahue better, while the ear on Unknown 2 seems to be closer to Swartzel.

Mike Mattimore was previously posited as Unknown 1. My feeling is this photo was taken before Mattimore joined the club midway into the series in Philadelphia.

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The 1886 Atlanta Team Photo promotes the club as the 'Champions of 1886'. Atlanta won the Southern League that year with a total roster of 17 players, 14 of whom played in the majors at some point. The photo itself contains 14 players. Joe Gunson is identified on the front. The IDs proposed for the other players are

Top Row: Wells, Conway, Williams, Mappes, Stricker, Lynch
Middle Row: Shaffer, Unidentified, Purcell
Bottom Row: Peak, Cline, Gunson, Lyons, Moore

The problem is that Peak was released in April before Mappes and Wells joined the club in May.

The Atlanta Constitution reported on April 15 that the club leaving for their series in Charleston consisted of:
Blondie Purcell, Henry Moore, Tom Lynch, Denny Lyons, Patsy McDonald, Cub Stricker, Jim Conway, Joe Gunson, Charlie Williams, Sam Kimber, John Shaffer and Monk Cline.
All of these players appeared in games for Atlanta in 1886.

Two other players, Elias Peak and Frank Mitchell, were left behind in Atlanta. Both appeared in games in spring training, but neither played in a championship game during the season. Peak was released on April 23 (along with McDonald). Mitchel was sent home to Springfield on May 9 with a sore arm. (Macon Telegraph, May 10).

It is my thought that these 14 players are the players in the team photo.

Updated 9/26/2021:
The latest identifications
Back row: Unidentified 1, Jim Conway, Sam Kimber(?), Unidentified 2, Cub Stricker, Thomas Lynch
Middle row: John Shaffer, Unidentified 3, Blondie Purcell
Front row: Elias Peak, Monk Cline, Joe Gunson, Denny Lyons, Henry Moore
Options for unidentified are Patsy McDonald, Charles Williams, and Frank Mitchell

Updated 8/23/2022:
Unidentified 2 matches Charlie Williams, whose photos are shown on pages 7 and 8.
Unidentified 1 seems to be P.F. "Patsy" McDonald. P.F. McDonald is pictured in the Johnson City Chronicle on May 24, 1936 (pg. 25), in a photo of the Johnson City commission from 1917. I’m 95% sure this is the ballplayer, who hailed from Pottsville, PA. He was described as 6’, 225 pounds in the Savannah Morning News (February 8, 1886).
That leaves Unidentified 3, who is probably Frank Mitchell. Frank Mitchell was identified as a left-handed pitcher from Springfield, Ohio in the Macon (GA) Telegraph on January 29, 1886. The Savannah Morning News described him as “Atlanta’s ambidexter pitcher” who beat Detroit in three games last season. He was described as a “very slight fellow, weighing about 110 pounds” by the Macon Telegraph on March 29, 1886. He suffered an arm injury early in April and was released at some point without ever pitching for the club. He died of consumption in May 1887 in Springfield, Ohio at the age of about 25.

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The front row looks good.
Elias Peak, Monk Cline, Joe Gunson

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Denny Lyons, Henry Moore.

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In the middle row, there is John Shaffer on the left and Blondie Purcell on the right. I'm looking at Sam Kimber in the middle, but the player in the photo seems too short to be him; he's listed as 5' 10".

Update: Probably not Sam Kimber in the middle.

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In the top row, I have matches for three players - Conway, Stricker and Lynch.

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That leaves three unidentified players in the back row (left-most, third from the left, and fourth from the left), and the middle player in the middle row. The players remaining from my proposed list are:
Sam Kimber, Patsy McDonald, Charlie Williams and Frank Mitchell.

I don't have photos of the last three of these.

[cinemaodyssey]

Here's a better exemplar for Elias Peak as well as a not very helpful late life photo of Williams.

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Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Here's a better exemplar for Elias Peak as well as a not very helpful late life photo of Williams.

That certainly looks like Peak in the front row, which sets the time for the photo early in the season. The alternative time frame I was looking at was towards the end of the season, when several other players would have been present, including Frank Wells, George Mappes and Orator Shafer, and possibly Mortimer Hogan, who was with the club into early August, but was in bed sick for much of that month. The problem is I can only get to thirteen players on the roster in August, as Kimber, Moore and McDonald were all gone (as well as Peak and Mitchell).

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Originally Posted by cinemaodyssey

Here's a better exemplar for Elias Peak as well as a not very helpful late life photo of Williams.

Where did you find the photo of Williams? I'm trying to get a feel for his age in 1886 to see if he could be the person between Shafer and Purcell in the middle row. Thanks!

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In my continuing quest to find improved images of players from the 1888 Western Association, I have turned to the 1887 Minnesota Team photo, shown on Threads of Our Game. Some of the players are identified in the caption.
Back row: Unidentified, George Winkelman, Unidentified, Robert Foster (manager), Owen Patton, John Shaw, Charles Willis
Front row: Miah Murray, George Ganzel, Elias Peak, Elmer Foster, Bill Hawes, William Tuckerman, Unidentified

Possibilities for the unidentified players are John Moriarty, Jim McKeever, and George Meister. It is thought the photo was taken in April, right around the time the season started, as Ganzel was released on April 28.

It happens that the Minneapolis Star Tribune published a preview of the club on February 7, 1887 (pg 3). The players profiled, with sketches, included all of the players named above except Winkelman. On February 28, the club signed pitcher James Allen, and on April 1 the St. Paul Globe noted that Frank Visner was also on the club. This gives a pool of 15 players plus manager Foster who could have been in the photo.

Frank Visner was the brother of "the noted batter and catcher of the same name in the Rochester team" (Star Tribune March 7, 1887), which would be Joe Visner. Joe Visner joined Minnesota late in the season (according to the St. Paul Globe, September 24, 1887). Baseball-Reference lists an O.S. Visner for the club, and it is not clear (to me at least) if this reflects Joe or Frank or some combination of the two. Most likely, it is all Joe, as Frank was reported released on May 5, along with James Allen.

Robert Foster was the brother of Elmer Foster. The resemblance can be seen comparing Elmer to his brother.

Updated proposals 9/26/2021:
Back row: Jim McKeever, George Winkelman, John Moriarty, Robert Foster, Owen Patton, John Shaw, Charles Willis
Front row: Miah Murray, George Ganzel, Elias Peak, Elmer Foster, Bill Hawes, William Tuckerman, George Meister

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So there are 15 possible players based on an April time frame for the photo:
James Allen, Elmer Foster, George Ganzel, Bill Hawes, Jim McKeever, George Meister, John Moriarty, Miah Murray, Owen Patton, Elias Peak, John Shaw, William Tuckerman, Frank Visner, Charles Willis, and George Winkelman. Robert Foster makes sixteen, and only fourteen are in the picture.

From left to right in the back row, I think we have
(1) Jim McKeever, (2) George Winkelman, (3) John Moriarty, (4) Robert Foster, (5) Owen Patton, (6) John Shaw, (7) Charles Willis.