Interesting Trade

[JMocks]

Two trades happened last night in my save with the Bruins.

Kings traded away franchise goaltender Johnathan Quick to the Leafs for Joffrey Lupul and P.A. Parenteau. What? The Kings are Stanley Cup contenders, why would they trade Quick? And if they were in a "rebuild" mindset, why get two aging veterans of no value?

Kings trade Toffoli to the Ducks for Kesler. Once again, this trade makes no sense for the Kings. And to make matters worse, Kesler is on the trading block! So essentially, the Ducks got Toffoli for free.

[krownroyal83]

The trade engine or whatever you call it does need some work. I like how some big names will get moved but i've seen some funny trades myself that define logic. Also on the first trade deadline day in my game only 4 trades were made and only one in the week leading up to it should always be more busy then that.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by JMocks

Two trades happened last night in my save with the Bruins.

Kings traded away franchise goaltender Johnathan Quick to the Leafs for Joffrey Lupul and P.A. Parenteau. What? The Kings are Stanley Cup contenders, why would they trade Quick? And if they were in a "rebuild" mindset, why get two aging veterans of no value?

Kings trade Toffoli to the Ducks for Kesler. Once again, this trade makes no sense for the Kings. And to make matters worse, Kesler is on the trading block! So essentially, the Ducks got Toffoli for free.

Both of these seem like salary dumps. They happen.

The Kings in particular are in cap hell, they're going to have to start dumping some of their highly paid guys in real life soon, and in fact have already been doing so. The returns are maybe sub-optimal, but that's something that will certainly be tweaked over time, just as the trade ai is still being tweaked in even long-standing games like OOTP and FM.

[Pete Grassi]

I don't even bother reading through these posts anymore. Without listing all of the ratings, stats, team roster makeup, player morale, cap situation, etc, all of these posts are meaningless. OOTP, FHM and whatever game OOTP Developments creates will never, ever know player names. They know numbers and code. There are so many factors involved these posts are useless and make no sense as complaints.

[Pete Grassi]

Originally Posted by JMocks

Two trades happened last night in my save with the Bruins.

Kings traded away franchise goaltender Johnathan Quick to the Leafs for Joffrey Lupul and P.A. Parenteau. What? The Kings are Stanley Cup contenders, why would they trade Quick? And if they were in a "rebuild" mindset, why get two aging veterans of no value?

Kings trade Toffoli to the Ducks for Kesler. Once again, this trade makes no sense for the Kings. And to make matters worse, Kesler is on the trading block! So essentially, the Ducks got Toffoli for free.

Are the Kings contenders in your game? Did Quick downgrade? Is there a goalie in their system that can be moved up? Is there an injury that created the need for skaters? Do Lupul and Parenteau have expiring contracts that can create cap space? Did Lupul and Parenteau upgrade? Is Quick struggling with bad stats? Lupul and Parenteau having career years?

Get the point? Stop looking at just names. There is so much more that needs to be understood.

[Teloch]

Just started my first season at the Penguins and set Scuderi and Dupuis on the trade block. In comes Winnipeg, offering Ehlers straight up for Dupuis. I mean...ok, I'll take that.

[mpejkrm]

Originally Posted by Pete Grassi

Are the Kings contenders in your game? Did Quick downgrade? Is there a goalie in their system that can be moved up? Is there an injury that created the need for skaters? Do Lupul and Parenteau have expiring contracts that can create cap space? Did Lupul and Parenteau upgrade? Is Quick struggling with bad stats? Lupul and Parenteau having career years?

Get the point? Stop looking at just names. There is so much more that needs to be understood.

Why are you assuming that he just looked at the names? Maybe he did take all those factors into account but decided not to list every single one out for you.

Even if it's a cap issue, if it's the first or second season, there's a very little chance that Quick declined quickly (heh) and 30+ veterans Lupul and Parenteau suddenly upgraded into career years.

[JMocks]

Originally Posted by Pete Grassi

Are the Kings contenders in your game? Did Quick downgrade? Is there a goalie in their system that can be moved up? Is there an injury that created the need for skaters? Do Lupul and Parenteau have expiring contracts that can create cap space? Did Lupul and Parenteau upgrade? Is Quick struggling with bad stats? Lupul and Parenteau having career years?

Get the point? Stop looking at just names. There is so much more that needs to be understood.

Quick was a 5a/5a and putting up good stats. I'm not sure who the Kings have in their farm system for goalies.This looks like it was a cap move, but I wouldn't trade my franchise goaltender that's in his prime. Just my thoughts on the trade.

[Balerstos]

Originally Posted by shinomourikenji

In my game before the season even started, buffalo shipped Jack Eichel to Florida for Nick Bjugstad and Juho Lammikko?

Either Buffalo found out Eichel wasn't all he was cracked up to be during training camp or Eichel just straight up refused to play for them?

Traded to the same team in my sim as well. Then, when he was due to get an extension, Florida didn't want to pay him ~4.5 a year for four years. He hit 65 points in his third season and was just under a ppg player in the first 20 games of his contract year. So, I traded for him. My backup goalie, a 1.5 ability 4.0 pot prospect that I signed who was in the ECHL and 2 1sts.

Originally Posted by JMocks

Quick was a 5a/5a and putting up good stats. I'm not sure who the Kings have in their farm system for goalies.This looks like it was a cap move, but I wouldn't trade my franchise goaltender that's in his prime. Just my thoughts on the trade.

Indeed. Would think the trade system would try to move Gaborik/Brown before moving Quick. Without Voynov/Richards, they aren't really in cap trouble. Also interesting is that they let Kopitar walk in the offseason and NJ signed him for about $7M/year.

[JMocks]

Originally Posted by Balerstos

Traded to the same team in my sim as well. Then, when he was due to get an extension, Florida didn't want to pay him ~4.5 a year for four years. He hit 65 points in his third season and was just under a ppg player in the first 20 games of his contract year. So, I traded for him. My backup goalie, a 1.5 ability 4.0 pot prospect that I signed who was in the ECHL and 2 1sts.



Indeed. Would think the trade system would try to move Gaborik/Brown before moving Quick. Without Voynov/Richards, they aren't really in cap trouble. Also interesting is that they let Kopitar walk in the offseason and NJ signed him for about $7M/year.

Yeah he went to the Devils in my save too.

[Hoiles]

In my current game of a couple of months, I get Eichel traded to Florida for the same package, though the other trades seem fine. Having franchise stars/prospects like him or Hall traded for lesser players does detract from the game experience though. I think a tweak that prevents, or at least greatly decreases, trades of 5-star players would help things.

[djsatu]

Originally Posted by Hoiles

In my current game of a couple of months, I get Eichel traded to Florida for the same package, though the other trades seem fine. Having franchise stars/prospects like him or Hall traded for lesser players does detract from the game experience though. I think a tweak that prevents, or at least greatly decreases, trades of 5-star players would help things.

I agree. I caved in and bought the game, and immediately turned trades down to 5 in hopes that would stop a flood of trades from happening, and these are the trades already 10 games in!

Trade # 1

Florida sends Dave Bolland to Anaheim for Despres.

Again people say the game doesn't take names into account, but no way this trade happens in real life. No way.

Trade # 2 Minny sends Darcy Kuemper to Washington for Sean Collins.

Meh, nothing major here.

Trade # 3

Florida sends Willie Mitchell to Calgary for Derek Engellend.

2 aging players, but makes no sense for Calgary to make this trade as Engellend is 5 years younger.

Trade # 4

NJ sends Mackenzie Blackwood to Carolina for Jeff Skinner.

Unless Blackwood is an next up and coming top tier goalie prospect, there is no way Carolina trades one of there best young players for this prospect straight up.

Trade # 5

Carolina trades Eddie Lack and Brendan Collier to Ottawa for Wiercioch.

This trade doesn't make any sense on any level.

Trade # 6

Buffalo trades Foligno to Calgary for Smid.

Why would Buffalo do this?

Trade # 7

Nashville trades Jackman and Nystrom to Toronto for Reilly.

This is just as bad as the Couture - Engelland trade that was posted on here. Stud young d-man for 2 over the hill players that add nothing to Toronto.

Also Montreal put Tinordi on waivers, whom I happily picked up for free.
Picked up JT Brown from TB on waivers after he was passed on, then was offered a deal for him a week later from Nashville that I refused.

UPDATE: Ottawa waives Eddie Lack exactly 30 days after he was dealt

[jaguar8311]

Originally Posted by djsatu

I agree. I caved in and bought the game, and immediately turned trades down to 5 in hopes that would stop a flood of trades from happening, and these are the trades already 10 games in!

Yup, trade engine is broken. The game's alot better than FHM1, and I wont ask for a refund because I want to support the game, but it's clear that the Trade engine still needs alot of work.

I know many people will overlook it and continue to enjoy the game, but I can't. I understand making a good game (series) takes a while, so I'll just stick to playing Fifa and Europa Universalis while FHM sorts its s**t now.

[bagman67]

Can you set the game to do no trades?

[Goldash]

Originally Posted by djsatu

Also Montreal put Tinordi on waivers, whom I happily picked up for free.
Picked up JT Brown from TB on waivers after he was passed on, then was offered a deal for him a week later from Nashville that I refused.

UPDATE: Ottawa waives Eddie Lack exactly 30 days after he was dealt

Weird, but Tinordi, Brown and Lack all went on waivers in my game as well...I wonder why that's happening to those specific players.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by djsatu

Also Montreal put Tinordi on waivers, whom I happily picked up for free.
Picked up JT Brown from TB on waivers after he was passed on, then was offered a deal for him a week later from Nashville that I refused.

UPDATE: Ottawa waives Eddie Lack exactly 30 days after he was dealt

Originally Posted by Goldash

Weird, but Tinordi, Brown and Lack all went on waivers in my game as well...I wonder why that's happening to those specific players.

I guess I don't see the issue here.

Maybe I'm stupid, but Tinordi looks to me like a classic 6-7th D man. True he was a high pick, but his play as a pro has been poor, and any potential he once had seems to have evaporated. He's absolutely a fungible asset.

Same for Brown, an undrafted player, albeit good in college, who's put up a whopping 29 points in 129 career games.

He's a generic 4th liner essentially, and doesn't even have the pedigree of a Tinordi. Again, total fodder.

The kind of guy you keep if you don't have better options but dump as soon as anything decent comes along.

Didn't look up their rl salaries, but either of those guys get to the point where they're getting paid any amount, they'd easily reach the point where they'd likely be providing net negative value to a team, less performance than they're getting paid for, which would make dumping them a wise move not a bad one.

Lack is harder to explain, but goalies are notoriously volatile, and even a small decrease in his performance would put him in the backup category and likely mean he's overpaid as well, and a possible overall negative when salary is taken into account. Is he any better than a clear backup like Antti Raanta, who Chicago essentially gave away for nothing? He's not clearly better, but he's getting paid significantly more. That makes him easily expendable in certain circumstances.

At any rate, certainly none of these are examples of an egregiously bad ai, in fact it's very likely that getting rid of them are examples of a good ai, one that's smarter than many rl gm's, who are willing to overpay and overplay mediocre at best players who are somehow considered proven, as opposed to cheaper guys who haven't gotten a fair chance, but are potentially better players at a lower cost.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by djsatu

Florida sends Dave Bolland to Anaheim for Despres.

Again people say the game doesn't take names into account, but no way this trade happens in real life. No way.

I'd tend to agree, pretty bad deal. Still Despres is no star, and Bolland is a vet leader type. I wouldn't do this, but I can totally see a rl gm who overvalues veteran leadership pulling the trigger on something similar.

Originally Posted by djsatu

Trade # 3

Florida sends Willie Mitchell to Calgary for Derek Engellend.

2 aging players, but makes no sense for Calgary to make this trade as Engellend is 5 years younger.

Calgary is probably a win now team, if they think Mitchell is an improvement, which I'd say he is, why would they care about Engelland being 5 years younger? Younger isn't always better, and it's not as if rl teams in win now mode won't regularly trade younger players for marginal vet upgrades.

Originally Posted by djsatu

Trade # 4

NJ sends Mackenzie Blackwood to Carolina for Jeff Skinner.

Unless Blackwood is an next up and coming top tier goalie prospect, there is no way Carolina trades one of there best young players for this prospect straight up.

Blackwood IS an up and coming top tier goalie prospect. And if he had even a slight boost in game, or the scouts saw him as even better than he is, he'd be an incredibly valuable player, a future top goalie. Again, don't see an issue here. Maybe the trade doesn't happen irl, but it's by no means outrageous, Blackwood is a borderline elite prospect.

Skinner is also coming off a bad year, and it's very much an open question as to whether he'll ever reach his potential at this point. He could still end up as a semi-bust, rather than a stud and he's not trending in the right direction.

Originally Posted by djsatu

Carolina trades Eddie Lack and Brendan Collier to Ottawa for Wiercioch.

This trade doesn't make any sense on any level.

What doesn't make sense here? Lack is a weak #1 goalie, or solid #2, depending on your view. Wiercioch is a very underrated D-man, a darling of the advanced stats crowd as well as a ready-made replacement for Andrej Sekera, a very similar player. Seems like a pretty fair trade to me.

Originally Posted by djsatu

Buffalo trades Foligno to Calgary for Smid.

Why would Buffalo do this?

Why not? Foligno is a generic 4th liner type, weak 3rd liner if you're being generous. Smid a generic 6th D-man type.

So they're pretty equal players, it would just depend on the team's needs at the time as to whether this would be a good deal, or an ok deal. It's not a bad deal by any stretch.

Originally Posted by djsatu

Nashville trades Jackman and Nystrom to Toronto for Reilly.

This is just as bad as the Couture - Engelland trade that was posted on here. Stud young d-man for 2 over the hill players that add nothing to Toronto.

Umm, disagree again here. Reilly is a "potential" stud. That potential isn't realized, and he still has a great range of possible outcomes. Likely, he's a good 2nd pair guy in the end.

Jackman and Nystrom are solid, veteran currently decent 2nd pair types. If Toronto thinks they can win now, this is totally a trade they'd make, giving up some possible future value for assured current value. This is a reasonable trade, again it seems to me more of an example of realistic trade ai than bad ai.

You might not make the same deal in the ai's place, but I bet there are plenty of rl GM's who would make this deal in a second. It's very similar to a lower level version of the Rangers trading a young Tony Amonte for Stephane Matteau and Brian Noonan back in 1994.

Overall, with all this, even if you disagree with my take, and still think some of these are bad deals, ask yourself how many bad deal have happened in real life? The answer is tons and tons. Humans will always make bad deals, even the best rl GM's make bad deals. Why are you asking for more out of a game than you'd expect out of even the best human GM's?

[Duranium]

A working trade engine/trade AI is one of the most important things for me personally , and although it still needs improvement, it´s miles ahead compared to FHM2014 and definetly not broken.
Horrible deals like Bolland <> Despres happen in RL (as GMJR showed by shipping out Despres for the lackluster Lovejoy) as well and players like Reilly, Blackwood are still unproven assets. And i have to go with lukasberger on Lack - we will see how it works out this season, but imo Lack as well as Talbot, Jones showed flashes of brilliance but are just career back-ups, at least until now.

and P.S....don´t know his FHM ratings off my head right now but IRL Engelland is such a horrible, horrible player - i was so happy when the Pens didn´t extend him and couldn´t stop laughing when the Flames paid through their nose to give him this ridiculous contract.

[Gerry58]

Originally Posted by JMocks

Yeah he went to the Devils in my save too.

Well Markus is a lifelong Devils fan, didn't you know that?

[Teloch]

Originally Posted by Teloch

Just started my first season at the Penguins and set Scuderi and Dupuis on the trade block. In comes Winnipeg, offering Ehlers straight up for Dupuis. I mean...ok, I'll take that.

Any of the testers etc. wanna weigh in on this one? It's right off the bat in the off-season, with no roster movement on either side beforehand. While I could just dismiss this as a "broken trade engine", I'd like to hear the thoughts of someone who has played the game longer than I have.

The ways I've looked at it:
- The season hasn't started, so stats can't be a part of it yet.
- It's a swap between two RW's, so it's not a desicion based on player position.
- Winnipeg is still 7M over cap floor, so it's unlikely it's to get higher salary in.
- Winnipeg has some potential players like Scheifele (C) and Trouba (D) in Ehlers' age range, which would make it reasonable to keep him instead of trading him for a 36-yo veteran.
- Trade for veteran leadership...maybe. Dupuis is not a leader type as he stands at 15 with the stat and Winnipeg is packed with 15+ players.
- Bolster the current roster of Winnipeg...the most likely choice. Dupuis is one of their better defending RWs now, but in this case the AI would be overextending like crazy, trading their top prospect for a fourth liner (yes, I checked where they put Duper).

So, any insight would be appreciated, as I would like to undestand the game better, before judging it.