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Old 03-13-2019, 11:11 PM   #1
fredbeene
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brett bulter baserunning 32

I am convinced many of the stats are just randomly generating

can site many examples like clemente speed of 30
today i see brett butler baserunning is 32. He is deadly on the basepaths.
I see no data that he was thrown out going for extra bases.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredbeene View Post
I am convinced many of the stats are just randomly generating

can site many examples like clemente speed of 30
today i see brett butler baserunning is 32. He is deadly on the basepaths.
I see no data that he was thrown out going for extra bases.
I think speed is partly/mainly a reflection of how often players grounded into double plays.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:03 PM   #3
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I'm not seeing any evidence of Butler being "deadly on the basepaths".

His career BsR stat (runs added on the basepaths) was just 6.1 over 17 seasons, with many seasons in the negative. Overall that is slightly less value than Mookie Betts added on the basepaths in just 1 season (6.9 last season).
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
I'm not seeing any evidence of Butler being "deadly on the basepaths".

His career BsR stat (runs added on the basepaths) was just 6.1 over 17 seasons, with many seasons in the negative. Overall that is slightly less value than Mookie Betts added on the basepaths in just 1 season (6.9 last season).
Wow , I never knew this stat. What is the ave for a ball player?
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:52 PM   #5
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Wow , I never knew this stat. What is the ave for a ball player?
It's one of those newfangled stats where it's based on runs above or below average. So league average is always zero.

However in doing some further research, it looks like one important component of BsR only was added in 2002. Before that, it was much more simple, based solely on SB and CS. Now it includes stuff like advancing from first to third or scoring from second. If Butler was very good at that, it wouldn't have shown up in the stat.

More info: https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/bsr/

Last edited by chazzycat; 03-14-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
It's one of those newfangled stats where it's based on runs above or below average. So league average is always zero.


However in doing some further research, it looks like one important component of BsR only was added in 2002. Before that, it was much more simple, based solely on SB and CS. Now it includes stuff like advancing from first to third or scoring from second. If Butler was very good at that, it wouldn't have shown up in the stat.
Wow, Thank you very much for the info my friend....
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:55 PM   #7
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No problemo!
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
I'm not seeing any evidence of Butler being "deadly on the basepaths".

His career BsR stat (runs added on the basepaths) was just 6.1 over 17 seasons, with many seasons in the negative. Overall that is slightly less value than Mookie Betts added on the basepaths in just 1 season (6.9 last season).
Why can't they just say exactly what the stat represents?
Is BsR what determines his 32 baserunning abiltiy?
32 baserunning is horrible.
I have seen hundreds of games of butler.
He is FAST and I saw nothing that would make go, gosh he is fast, but just really doesn't understand how to run the bases or get a lead.

I havent played him in OOTPB. However in PT is 33 sb and 42 cs lifetime
The interesting stats you site are not availble
I aslo can't find stats in OOTPB on how many times he was thrown out trying to advance. Those are essential for me to determine how strategy is working.
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:39 PM   #9
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I think speed is partly/mainly a reflection of how often players grounded into double plays.
1991 Butler had 108 walks *led league) in 730 plate appearance.
His EYE rating is 68. Does that seem right?
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:44 PM   #10
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Does that seem right?

Yep
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Old 04-17-2019, 10:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
It's one of those newfangled stats where it's based on runs above or below average. So league average is always zero.

However in doing some further research, it looks like one important component of BsR only was added in 2002. Before that, it was much more simple, based solely on SB and CS. Now it includes stuff like advancing from first to third or scoring from second. If Butler was very good at that, it wouldn't have shown up in the stat.

More info: https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/bsr/
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...utlebr01.shtml

Not seeing anything in RBASER RDP (better than average) that would indication 32 baserunning????
Are the ratings in PT for the season that played or based against all the cards in PT?
scale 1-100, a 32?
So you would not PR for boog powell with brett butler?
Confused!: )
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredbeene View Post
1991 Butler had 108 walks *led league) in 730 plate appearance.
His EYE rating is 68. Does that seem right?
What does leading the league in walks have to do with grounding into double plays?
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:39 AM   #13
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In 1991 Butler stole 38 bases, but (ler) was thrown out 28 times to lead the majors.

That is egregiously horrible.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:06 PM   #14
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wouldnt that be his stealing rating though, not his baserunning?
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:13 AM   #15
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wouldnt that be his stealing rating though, not his baserunning?
Base Running includes the player's decision skill--more so than foot speed--so running when he has little chance of stealing is why he is low.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
Base Running includes the player's decision skill--more so than foot speed--so running when he has little chance of stealing is why he is low.
thanks to everyone.....but we are all speculating on what would seem to be documenation for the manual (rarely maintained)

I get so stoked with baseballrefernce.com envisioning one day OOTPB would mimic that stats and column header defs, sorting ability
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:19 PM   #17
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Yep
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...-batting.shtml

Ranked very high...still not sure how it equates to value given
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
Base Running includes the player's decision skill--more so than foot speed--so running when he has little chance of stealing is why he is low.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...-batting.shtml

So OOB is a cool stat. Fing cool...Exactly what OOTPB should have
I can hover over the column and see the whole definition of OUT ON BASE
And there is where butler sucks

However he leads the league in BT bases taken a 39
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