Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.8 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 6 Available


Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: Historical Simulations

Thread Tools
Old 11-12-2012, 07:17 PM   #81
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1985, Pitchers: Kershaw

SIX pitchers were inducted by the software this year. Not many more pitchers will be entering, and there are several more that will meet First Ballot standards. There may not be anymore pitchers inducted who retired prior to 1979.


Clayton Kershaw was one of those six, and he was the first one screened (so five are waiting their turn). I loved what I saw of Kershaw in 2008 and said this guy may be the reincarnation of Koufax (A hard throwing lefty with a big hook in a Dodger uniform and a last name starting with K?!?). A long ways to go before you can make the Sandy comparisons, but I love this guy and only see continued success for him over the upcoming seasons.

Well, he is in the HOF here, and deservedly so. To get on the First Ballot Standard, a player needs to be above the average in both Ink and HOFm/s composites. Kershaw did that, and with room to spare.

Drafted 3rd over-all by the Yankees (not nice) in the 1960 draft, Kershaw posted a career mark of 266-203 before calling it quits in 1979.

His 3879 career strikeouts in 4363 1/3 IP places him 9th on the All Time strikeout list and 9th on the K/9 list.

He places 5th on the career list for opposing BA and 7th on the list of opposing OPS.

He holds the single season record for K/9 (11.4), opp BA (.172), and opp OPS (.456), all from his 1968 season when he posted a 26-7 record with a OOTP ERA of 1.39 (npa ERA+ of 205).

A 7 time All Star, Kershaw won three Cy Young Awards and struck out 300 hitters in a season 4 times. And he walked just 1420 for his career.

He has just a 1-4 mark in the post season, but his ERA+ in the post season is 143.

His career OOTP ERA is 2.83 (npa ERA+ 137).

Black: 69
Gray: 234
HOFm: 222
HOFs: 54

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-12-2012 at 07:19 PM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 04:57 AM   #82
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1986: Bond, Geiger, Gessler

No candidates on the spreadsheet met the current stadards, so all 3 inductees come from the leader boards. That I was only minimally familiar with any of these RL players is troubling me not.


Walt Bond gets in on his first year of eligibility by being the highest placing eligible player on either the WAR or VORP (he comes from the VORP) list.

The de facto induction threshold of 400 HRs is solidified with Bond's entry. Hitting 440 HRs from 1962 through 1978, Bond had the highest HR total of any eligible player not already inducted.

Bond hit .292 for his career as he collected 2637 hits. His career OBP/SLG of 360/490 gives him a solid HOF career npa OPS+ of 144.

Bond was a middle first rd draft pick in 1961. In his rookie season he hit .335 with 35 HRs and 103 RBI. His OPS of 1.012 gave him a npa OPS+ of 173 as he took ROY honors.

He batted 7 for 21 in his only WS, but his team lost.

A 9 time All-Star, Bond won batting titles in each of his first two seasons.

Black: 8
Gray: 146
HOFm: 99.5
HOFs: 44


The Blue Dogs felt they weren't taken seriously with their previous selections of strikeout leaders as symbolic displays of their frustration because the previous selections had other qualifications for induction separate from the position they held on the K list. This time, Gary Geiger gets in.

He is the highest ranking eligible player on any list (tied with another on another list). His list happens to be strikeouts. I think the Traditionalists and Saberheads are getting the point with this one.

Gary Geiger was a second rd draft pick in 1955 of the New York Giants. Retiring after the 1975 season, Geiger collected 2278 hits and posted a career line of 256/349/413 for a npa OPS+ of 117.

The 4 time All Star played in 2 WS, winning in 1965 with fellow HOFers Ike Blessitt and Denis Menke.

Geiger hit 302 HRs for his career.

Geiger is a floor breaker.

Black: 3
Gray: 51
HOFm: 36
HOFs: 30


Doc Gessler was the highest ranking eligible player on the VORP list (after Walt Bond was selected). Gessler is also inducted in his first year of eligibility.

Selected 3rd in the 1959 draft, Gessler won ROY in 1960 by hitting 276/393/416 (npa OPS+ 130).

Gessler posted a career slash line of 290/400/407 (npa OPS+ 135). He also stole 390 bases in a career which yeilded 2480 hits.

He had an amazing 1966 season: 209 hits, 100 BB, 113 R, 102 RBI, 20 HR, 36 SB, 347/448/538 npa OPS+ 190. That was good for an MVP award.

He appeared in 3 WS, and brought Cleveland a championship in 1967....should be all that is need for induction, right there.

Black: 10
Gray: 126
HOFm: 90
HOFs: 46
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 05:10 AM   #83
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Hall at 50

50 years ago the first class was inducted. This chart includes the 1986 inductees. The current composite mean is 4.87. The median and mode (rounding each composite to the nearest whole number) remains at 4 for each.

108 seasons have been played. There are 10 players with a composite score of 10, or more.

The pattern noted in the previous chart continues in this one.
Attached Images
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 05:59 AM   #84
All Star Starter
Jordan's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chi Suburbs now...
Posts: 1,841
Thanks: 179
Thanked 65x in 46 posts
i may have missed this in the thread earlier or something, could you explain the blue dogs to me?
Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:32 PM   #85
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1987: Sanders, Louden

Ben Sanders gets in on the First Ballot Standard, though this is not his first year of eligibility. Most, if not all, of the pitchers who enter between now and 2012 will fit this description.

Drafted by the Dodgers with the first overall pick in 1957, Sanders played his last big league game with the Dodgers in 1979. For some reason the Dodgers allowed him to become a FA and he signed a 1 year contract with the SF Giants, of all teams, for the 1977 season for a mere $81,600. He won 20 games for that Giant team that wound up winning the division and the pennant.

The Dodger fans were outraged and the team offered him a 2 year deal worth $644,000 that off season. Sanders took the money and won one more ML game with the Dodgers.

Why did the Dodger fans love him? Well, he had the most wins of any Dodger pitcher with 372. The Dodger list of winningest pitchers includes HOFers Pud Galvin, Matt Kilroy, Clark Griffith, and Randy Johnson. Not the same as being on top of an Angels list.

For his entire career, Sanders collected the 4th most wins of any pitcher, 392. Only HOFers Charles Ferguson, Walter Johnson, and John Smiley have more. His 392-264 mark gives him a .598 win %, only 5 HOFers have a better number (James Burke, Cozy P Dolan, Ferguson, Lefty Grove, Hippo Vaughn).

His 3365 strikeouts places him 14th on the All Time list.

He won 20 games or more each season from 1968 through 1978. He won 27 in 1971, which matched his career high from his 1961 CYA winning season (27-6, 3.10, npa ERA+ 134).

A 6 time All Star, his career OOTP ERA of 3.22 is good for a npa ERA+ of 117.

He made 15 starts in 5 post seasons and collected 10 wins vs 4 losses in those games.

In 1961 he won the WS with fellow HOFers Willie Davis, King Kelly and Chuck Klein.

He also helped the Dodgers to consecutive titles in 1969-70. Willie Davis was still a bench player on those teams.

Sanders has given up the most HRs in league history, 637.

Black Ink: 56
Gray Ink: 297
HOFm: 223
HOFs: 70


It was back to the leader boards for the hitters.

Baldy Louden was the 5th player taken in the 1910 draft. He retired in 1930. At the age of 98 he joins the HOF.

Louden collected 2066 hits in his career which saw him win 2 GGs at 2B. He appered in 2 WS, winning 1922 with a Red Sox team that also featured HOFers Benny Kauff, Tommy Harper, and Bret Saberhagen.

In an oddity Louden won the MVP his rookie season when he hit .302, stole 106 bases and scored 124 runs, but lost the ROY to HOFer Tim Keefe.

He stole 100 bases again in his sophomore season. For his career he stole 821, 11th best all time. It is for this position on the All-Time list that Louden receives his induction 57 years after his retirement.

Technically Louden is a floor breaker, but just barely.

Black: 18
Gray: 91
HOFm: 56
HOFs: 32


Does Louden belong in the HOF? Do I need to rethink the system because of him? Upon review I think the system worked as it should in his case. When Louden retired in 1930 he was 10th on the SB list. With the coming eras of Wills and Brock and Henederson and Coleman, it would be fair to figure that being that high on the list would be history in quick time. It was not.

There is a line of thought that says a HOFer is HOFer at the moment he retires and that is when the decision should be made (or 5 years after retirement). I disagree. Louden's SB total was not nearly as significant in 1930 as it is 57 years later. Louden is an example of how the HOF process should work. Along those same lines, Hans Lobert's induction looks so much stronger now than it did at the time, as he remains the SB leader 42 years following his induction, and no one is on the horizon that threatens it. Lobert wasn't inducted immediately, but 25 yers after his retirement he was still the SB king, which made that mark more noteworthy, and thus more Hall-worthy, than it was when he retired.
And that record still stands.

Re Blue Dogs: Check the 1956 Class posting for their introduction. References to the Selection Committee camps begin there.

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-15-2012 at 03:32 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Jordan (11-15-2012)
Old 11-15-2012, 02:59 AM   #86
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1988: Walsh

Six players have earned the batting triple crown in league history. The last one happened in 1975, by Jimmy Walsh.

Jimmy Walsh is a First Ballot inductee inducted on the first ballot screening after the software had entered him on the default settings.

A late first rd pick in 1966 by the Tigers, Walsh had previously immortalized his name by winning the aforementioned 1975 triple crown (.349, 41, 135). He picked up MVP honors that year, also.

An 8 time All Star, Walsh saw most of his playing time at 3B, though he logged meaningful time at 2B and LF, also.

In a career that spanned from 1967 through 1982, Walsh picked up 2331 hits and 339 HRs. He picked up these numbers in bunches. He collected 200 hits in a season 6 times and 40 Hrs 3 times.

He posted a career slash line of 316/358/513 for a npa OPS+ of 144.

He hit over .300 for each season from 1971 through 1979. He won his first batting title in 1973 with the same batting average (.349) he posted in his TC season. His career best BA of .352 in 1979 was second best in the league.

Walsh did not appear in the post season.

Black Ink: 33
Gray Ink: 189
HOFm: 200
HOFs: 55
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 12:56 AM   #87
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1989: Erwin, Briggs, Butler

I posted on the main board about the Angels being moved to California, Maryland when they changed their name from the Los Angeles Angels to the California Angels. I hope this is an issue that is addressed because it completely disrupts the competitive balance of the league when financials are in use. I am using financials for this league. I don't feel as bad about getting fired from them now that I see that the declining revenue wasn't simply my fault. I am a bit concerned that I didn't notice this earlier. I am not going to change the settings for any individual team to correct this because I have not previously done that and I am not 100% confident that I will do this with 100% accuracy for teams that may be affected by this bug.


With 112 seasons played, the 11th player with a composite score over 10 is inducted into the HOF. The frequency of these players is still about once in a decade.

Tex Erwin is this 11th player. Coincidentally, Erwin was also the 11th player selected in the 1960 draft.

Making his final major league appearance in 1980, he retired in 1982.

Erwin collected 749 career HRs amongst his 3232 base hits. He hit 50 HRs in a season 4 times, with a career high of 60. Only 3 players have hit more HRs in a season.

Ervin is a 6 time league MVP. Only Cobb, Shoeless Joe, Frank Robinson, and Tris Speaker won more in their careers.

A 16 time All Star (bested only by Frank Robinson and Willie Mays), Erwin won 3 GGs at catcher as he posted a career slash line of 288/387/530 for a career npa OPS+ of 161. Playing almost 90% of his home games in the anti-hitters paradise that is Candelstick Park, his actual OPS+ is probably closer to 170 than 160.

Erwin's HR total is the 3rd most ever (Mays, Griffey JR ahead on the list). His 2164 RBI and 2122 runs scored place him 6th on each of those All-Time lists.

He never played a defensive position other than catcher. He leads all catchers in career slg%, OPS, VORP, Games, runs, TB, HR, BB, WAR, GS, A, PO, DP, and IP.

He hit 60 HRs in 1963 with a npa OPS+ of 195. Twice he had a npa OPS+ over 200. His best season was 1970 when he hit 54 HRs, 149 RBI, walked 126 times, and posted a slash line of 323/444/467 for a npa OPS+ of 203...and this was playing home games in Candlestick.

Erwin appeared in seven WS, and won three titles. In LCS play, his team won the series 5 of 5 times. In post season play he hit .305 with 19 HRs in 220 ABs. His 1961 WS winning Giant squad included HOFers Ike Blessitt, Denis Menke, and Gary Geiger.

Erwin gets in on the First Ballot screening in his second year of eligibility.

Black Ink: 81
Gray Ink: 301
HOFm: 521.5
HOFs: 83


The Selection Committee went to the leaderboards and put in John E Briggs in his first year of eligibility for being the highest ranked player on either the VORP or WAR charts. Briggs enters ranking 31st on the All-Time VORP list.

Briggs was taken by the Dodgers with the 10th pick overall.

A 7 time All-Star, Briggs won 3 OF GGs. In the pitching dominated season of 1968, Briggs posted a slash line of 268/370/470 wit 24 HRs for a npa OPS+ of 164 to win the MVP.

For his career he had a line of 268/368/448, npa OPS+ 135 and hit 368 HRs amongst his 2488 career hits.

He was teammates of fellow HOFers Willie Davis and Ben Sanders for the Dodger WS winning teams of 1969-70.

Black: 6
Gray: 108
HOFm 56
HOFs: 41


Brett Butler becomes the oldest player to be inducted into the HOF. How old? Just a mere 129 years of age....I do like this world.

Butler was the 7th player taken in the 1881 draft. He retired after the 1898 season with 1698 base hits. His 90 year wait from retirement to induction is the longest of any HOFer. A 7 time All-Star, Butler won 4 CF GGs.

He posted a career slash line of 286/366/400 for a npa OPS+ of 130.

Though his career hit number appears low, it needs to be kept in mind that he played in short schedule seasons. In his rookie year he led the league in games played....with 84.

Under these short season conditions Butler had 682 career SBs and 218 triples. It his for his placement on the All-Time triples list (12th) that he gets the induction.

Butler appeared in 3 WS and won all three times. In 1885 and 1895 he won with HOF teammate John Smiley. In 1885 HOFer Vin Campbell was also on the team.

Black: 10 (16)
Gray: 111 (117)
HOFm: 49.5 (54)
HOFs: 34 (36)


IRL, Roberto Alomar is the HOFer who was the last to make his ML Debut, 1988. I will make note of RL HOFers who debut from this point forward because it is not likely that they will put together HOF careers and retire prior to 2007 to debut at this point, though it may happen.

George Davis is making his debut in this, the 1989 season. Barry Bonds, though not a HOFer, is also debuting in 1989.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Jordan (11-17-2012)
Old 11-17-2012, 03:02 PM   #88
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1990: Williams, Koufax

HOFers Johnny Bench and Lou Boudreau are making their debuts in 1990. With players appearing randomly we expect to see more HOFers appearing now because there are simply more players entering the draft pool, due to expansion, than before.


Matt Williams is a forgotten casualty of the 1994 work stoppage. He was on a pace to put him near 62 HRs for the season when the Maris record still stood.

Here he got another shot at history. In 1970 he hit 61 HRs to set the league record previously at 60, set by Tex Erwin. In 1971 he hit 62 HRs. He hit 30 or more HRs in a season 7 times, but '70-'71 were the only seasons he broke 40.

When he retired in 1985 he had hit 515 career HRs. He collected 2662 hits while posting a career slash line of 265/308/467 for a npa OPS+ of 121.

A steal in the second rd of the 1964 draft, Williams was a 5 time All-Star and twice won a GG at 3B. He won the MVP in his 62 HR season of 1971 as he hit .284 and drove in 157 runs. He also scored 117 times while posting a npa OPS+ of 166.

He was part of the back-to-back Dodger WS winning teams of 1969-70 with HOF teammates John E Briggs, Willie Davis, and Ben Sanders.

Williams did not enter on the First Ballot screening he was afforded by being an automatic software inductee on the default standards, but he does enter on his first year of eligibility with a HOFm number well above the current Hall average.

Black Ink: 21 (8)
Gray Ink: 104 (58)
HOFm: 184 (70)
HOFs: 39 (29)


IRL, if a pitcher gets 300 wins or 3000 strikeouts, he gets my vote for the HOF.

When asking baseball people and fans who were in the game or attended games in in and before the 1960s who was the best pitcher they ever saw, the most frequent answer, and usually without hesitation, is Koufax.

In this league, he has cetainly put himself at the fore of any conversation for best pitcher ever.

Taken with the 10th overall pick in 1957 by the Chicago Cubs, Koufax pitched in Wrigley through the 1978 season after which he appropriately signed with the Dodgers. He retired following the 1980 campaign.

He posted nearly a .600 win rate as he racked up 388 (6th All-Time) wins vs 261 losses.

In 830 career games, all starts, he pitched 6113 innings and struck out an amazing 6196 batters while issuing only 1947 walks. His strikeout total is the most ever, 1400+ ahead of the next player.

12 times he struck out 300+ batters in a season. That he did this in 12 CONSECUTIVE seasons from 1962 through 1973 is jaw dropping.

He had a historically appropriately dominant 1963 season. Winning the CYA, he was 20-7 with an OOTP ERA of 2.40 with pitching in Wrigley Field back when it was a hitter's park. He struck out 350 men that year and his npa ERA+ was 144.

In 1973 he won his second CYA posting similar numbers. He struck out 393 batters in 1965 for a career high and what was the most Ks in a season since the 1884 season. It is the third highest total in league history.

In the 1964 WS he got 2 starts and 2 wins. In 17 innings he did not give up a run and struck out 22 batters as the Cubs defeated the White Sox (cool!) in 5 games.

Though not entering on his first year of eligibility, Koufax enters on the First Ballot screening.

His career npa ERA+ is 126. Koufax was named to 12 All-Star teams.

ADD: Koufax holds the single season record for K/9 with 11.40 in 1964.

Black: 59 (78)
Gray: 369 (151)
HOFm: 335 (227)
HOFs: 69 (46)

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-18-2012 at 05:08 PM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 06:53 PM   #89
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1991, Pitchers: Rusie, Kennedy

Two pitchers and two hitters enter in a class that rivals 1976 for the strongest since the inaugural 1936 class. Three of the four entrants come in on the First Ballot standard, two in their first year of eligibility.

In 1991, RL HOF lock Mike Piazza makes his debut.


RL HOFer Amos Rusie was part of the back log of computer inducted candidates waiting for a first ballot screening. He gets in on that screening (both Ink and HOFm/s composites above Hall average), but in what was a surprise, was the only one of those candidates that met those standards.

Rusie was drafted by the Cardinals with the 6th overall pick in 1963. He pitched for them through the 1976 season before leaving as a Free Agent to Baltimore. He made stops in Cleveland and California, Maryland before retiring in 1982.

His rookie season he struck out 368 batters as he went 17-14 with an OOTP ERA of 2.67 (npa ERA+ of 135) to win Rookie of the Year honors.

10 times in his career he struck out 200+ batters. In 1969 he posted the 2nd highest strikeout total all time with 407 (Al Pratt, 423 in 1884) as he won his third consecutive CYA as he won a career high 28 games vs 10 losses with an OOTP ERA of 1.89 (npa ERA+ 191). In those three consecutive CYA seasons, his OOTP ERA was below 2.00 for each year.

Rusie hes 4 of the top 10 strike out totals in a season, and 5 of the top 12.

He won 3 CYA, and was named to 7 All Star teams as he posted a career record of 300-211. His 4765 career strikeouts is second only to Sandy Koufax. He compiled a career OOTP ERA of 3.01 (npa ERA+128).

He pitched in 4 post seasons, but only had a 2-5 record in 8 appearances (7 starts). He won a WS with the Cleveland Indians in 1979 (going 18-6 at the age of 38, in the regular season). In a complete departure from RL, the 1970s saw the Cleveland Indians put together dominant teams. Rusie is the first player from the 1979 WS winner to enter the Hall, but he will not be the last.

Black Ink: 68 (52)
Gray Ink: 212 (179)
HOFm: 279 (186)
HOFs: 59 (42)


The Selection Committee gets nostalgic and decides to give The Call from The Hall to Ian Kennedy, who is now the oldest player to receive an induction. Kennedy gives his induction speech at the age of 132.

Brett Butler, the player who was previously the oldest inductee says his mark was more note worthy because he overcame cancer. Kennedy retorts that that means nothing.....everyone is this world overcomes their cancer. Cool place.

Ian Kennedy was the first pick of the third rd in 1879, the first rookie draft following the first season played in the league. There were only 8 teams then, so he was the 17th player selected, over all.

Kennedy played from 1880 through 1902. He won 202 games and lost 209. He was always a favorite of the writers. His career OOTP ERA is 2.57, a npa ERA+ of 111.

Kennedy pitched for some HORRIBLE Cincinnati teams. In 1881 he went 18-24 on a team that finished 29-55...yep, he won 62% of their games.

In 1887 he was mercifully traded to the Washington Nationals. He was relegated to the bullpen behind HOF starters James Burke and Al Pratt as the Nats won consecutive titles in 1887 and 1888. He had a combined ERA under 1.00 those years.

Kennedy enters on the Veteran Standard.

Black: 27
Gray: 142
HOFm: 91
HOFs: 32

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-18-2012 at 06:55 PM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:21 AM   #90
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1991, Hitters: Crawford, Murcer

There have been two Bakers and two Johnsons inducted into the HOF. Now there are two Crawfords as RL HOFer Sam Crawford joins Willie in the Hall.

Sam Crawford was the 5th player selected by the New York Mets in the 1964 draft. He proved to be a good selection right away as he won ROY in 1965 by hitting 49 HRs and driving in 116. Both of these numbers would stand as career highs. 290/353/575 was good for a npa OPS+ of 166.

In 1968 he led the Mets to a Miracle WS win a year sooner than IRL. In 1968 he hit 22 HRs and drove in 82 in a season where those numbers meant a good performance. He also won his only GG that season.

A 14 time All-Star, the RL career triples leader hit 161 3Bers in his career, here, 40th most.

Carawford won 2 batting titles, including one in 1971 with a career best BA of .367.

Crawford collected 3397 hits in a career that lasted through 1985, 15th most. He hit 372 HRs and scored 1727 times (20th) while posting a career line of 308/364/489 for a npa OPS+ of 144.

Crawford enter in his first year of eligibility on the First Ballot screening.

Black Ink: 30 (33)
Gray Ink: 235 (330)
HOFm: 204.5 (118)
HOFs: 69 (53)


Wow, if Sam Crawford was picked 5th in the 1964 draft, who could have been a worthy pick ahead of him? How about 1964's first pick, Bobby Murcer.

Murcer answers a question I have had, at least partly about fielding positions and using recalc.

Murcer broke in to RL MLB as a SS, but after his second season he made just 2 infield appearances.

Here, Murcer played 2654 games at SS and placing him in an argument for best SS ever, with Honus Wagner. Bobby Murcer?? Really??

Murcer won 3 MVPs. Wagner also won three.

Murcer made 13 All Star teams. Wagner 12.

Murcer won a GG at SS. Wagner won 8...ok, edge to Honus there.

Wagner collected nearly 4000 hits and 276 HRs. Murcer collected 3076 hits and 517 HRs.

Murcer had a 142 npa OPS+, Wagner a 143. That is a rounding error's worth of difference.

A career 288/358/487 slash line is good for anyone, but as a SS, it shortlists you into the 'best ever' conversation. Murcer's 1905 RBI places him 11th on that all-time list.

Murcer's best season was 1971 when he hit a career high .348, a career high 48 HRs, and 141 RBI to win the Triple Crown en route to posting a npa OPS+ of 202.

He helped the Red Sox to 4 consecutive pennants from 1971-1974, and twice more in 1982-83, winning WS in '72, '74, and '82. He is first player in the Hall from any of those teams.

Murcer retired following the 1985 season.

The only asterisk in my mind regarding position eligibility/skill when using recalc comes from the fact that Murcer DNP due to military service for two seasons, IRL, after his second season. In the absence of data, recalc works from the player dev engine. When RL data returned that was absent of SS data, Murcer still fielded that position, here. If this DNP time affected the operations of the sim, I do not know. What I do know is that using recalc does not lock a player into fielding stats from the season's data that is applied by the recalc.

Murcer enters in his first year of eligibility on the First Ballot Screening.

Black: 70 (3)
Gray: 236 (95)
HOFm: 363 (29)
HOFs: 69 (26)

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-19-2012 at 01:22 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:21 AM   #91
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Hall Chart at 55

These are plots of composite scores of the 4 metrics over time (the plots from left to right are the order of induction). The "floor" has solidified around the 2 mark. The average composite score, including the inductions from 1991 is 4.9 with a Standard Deviation of 2.9.

Rounding the composite scores to the nearest whole number gives us a median score of 4. The modal score is still 4, but there is only one more 4 plot than 3 plot.

Looking at the right hand side, the plot at 12 is Tex Erwin, the plot near 9 is Bobby Murcer, the plot near 8 is Koufax, below that plot is Amos Rusie, the plot below that one on the 6 line is Sam Crawford.
Attached Images
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 10:58 PM   #92
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1992: Stratton, Simmons, Rigney

Lost this post TWICE now...will make a brief one as my frustration level is peaking......

I was wrong about no pitchers retired before 1979 getting in when I said that a few classes back. Some guys I thought were sure thing First Balloters did not meet the threshold.

All players entering this year get in on the Veteran Standard. All of them were inducted by the default settings.


Monty Stratton. He went 51-12 in consecutive CY Young winning seasons in 1961 and 1962. He pitched the White Sox to 4 straight WS, winning twice with HOF teammates Billy Hamilton and Gus Zernial. Bobby Mathews was on one of those teams.

Stratton was 225-191, 2.43 (ERA+ 113). He played from 1951-1967, all with the White Sox.

Black Ink: 27
Gray Ink: 192
HOFm: 128
HOFs: 35


A year after the second Crawford enters the Hall, a second Simmons does.

Curt Simmons was the third pick back in 1889.

A four time All Star, Simmons was 237-222 with an OOTP ERA of 2.90 (npa ERA+ 109) from 1890 through 1910. He never pitched in the post season.

Simmons enter at the age of 124.

Black: 9 (1)
Gray: 147 (128)
HOFm: 119.5 (37)
HOFs: 40 (24)


Johnny Rigney won 256 games vs 236 losses in a career that spanned from 1907 to 1928. His OOTP ERA of 3.02 is good for a 106 npa ERA+.

He pitched in one WS in 1912 when his Boston Red Sox fell to the Boston Braves. That year he went 28-9 with a 1.79 OOTP ERA (167 ERA+) and threw a record 9 shut outs. That record stood until 1975.

Black: 21
Gray: 118
HOFm: 87.5
HOFs: 34


RL HOFer Gaylord Perry makes his debut in 1992.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #93
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1993: Larkin

Barry Larkin, newly enshrined in RL HOF, is the sole entry in the class of 1993.

Larkins numbers here are very similar to those in RL. He retired in 1987, the second year of his RL career, so the era adjustment pushes his raw numbers down, here.

Drafted with the 3rd overall pick by the expansion Expos in 1968, Larkin played in Montreal through 1985 before making stops in Boston, and finally Cincinnati in his final two seasons.

He put up a career slash line of 272/343/409 (RL: 297/371/444) for a npa OPS+ of 114 which compares to RL OPS+ of 116.

Larkin collected 2754 hits in a career that included 8 All Star teams and in 1981 he did something no one in RL ever did....win a WS in Montreal.

Larkin won 5 GGs and was also ROY.

Larkin gets in on his first year of eligibility, but he was not a computer selection. He gets in by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average.

Black Ink: 8 (0)
Gray Ink: 108 (66)
HOFm: 137 (120)
HOFs: 53 (47)

ADD: Babe Ruth makes his debut in 1993.....Ruth in his prime at the peak of the Steroid era....this could get ridiculous.

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-22-2012 at 12:36 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #94
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1994: May, Atkinson

With only 18 seasons to go until we reach the Class of 2012, there are now, with the entry of May and Atkinson, 171 members in the Hall of Fame. The numbers have stablized for the entry standards. The current averages are :

Black Ink: 1.1
Gray Ink: 1.2
HOFm: 1.6
HOFs: 0.9

Since the last time I commented on this and was without an explanation as to exactly why the HOFm was so far above the expected 1.0, I realized looking at BBREF that 100 is not the average for RL HOFm scores, but 100 is described as a threshold for becoming a favorite to enter. These are two very different things and the actual RL ave is above 100. Once the 2012 class is entered I will compare these Hall numbers to the real ones in the same manner that the numbers are used here.

I don't anticipate any of these numbers changing by more than a tenth of a point before 2012. But I have been really wrong about such things, before.


Carlos May was the 4th player taken in the 1963 draft. As a 19 year-old rookie he hit .338 with 37 HR, 100 RBI and scored 111 runs as he won the ROY with a npa OPS+ of 188 for the Boston Red Sox.

Things got better for May in 1964 when he won the league MVP. An honor he received again in 1965. Over those two seasons he hit a combined .343 with 72 HRs, 215 RBI and scored 245 runs with a npa OPS+ of 195.

For his career he collected 2883 hits which included 288 HRs. His slash line of 300/385/448 was good for a npa OPS+ of 140.

The 5 time All Star hit .360 in two post seasons. He won a WS in 1972 with the Red Sox as he was teamed with HOFer Bobby Murcer.

May enters the Hall by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average. He retired following the 1984 season.

Black Ink: 17
Gray Ink: 130
HOFm: 111.5
HOFs: 54


Al Atkinson was the 8th player taken in the 1972 draft. He didn't sign with the Pirates, and was drafted with the 4th overall pick in 1973 by the Expos. He played his entire career with Montreal and retired in 1988. He enters on the in his first year of eligibility on the First Ballot screening.

Atkinson posted a career record of 238-166 and had an OOTP ERA of 2.99 for a npa ERA+ of 130.

He won consecutive Cy Young Awards in 1981 and 1982. Those seasons he was a combined 45-10 with a npa ERA+ of 166.

He led the league in Wins each season from 1980-1982. In 1983 he posted an OOTP ERA of 1.93 while winning 19 games. His npa ERA+ of 202 was a career high.

When the Expos won the WS in 1981, Atkinson won 3 WS games and was 5-0 for the post season. His career post season record is 9-2.

Atkinson joins long time team mate, and 1981 WS winner, Barry Larkin in the Hall.

Black: 59
Gray: 210
HOFm: 173
HOFs: 47

ADD: RL HOFer Eppa Rixey makes his debut in 1994.

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-23-2012 at 06:16 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 03:53 PM   #95
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1995: Perez, Van Slyke, Lord

News of note from 1994: The single season HR record of 64 was shattered. The new record is 82. It was not set by a RL HOFer. However, it was set by a legitimate power hitter who had his RL career curtailed due to injury.

Also, probable RL HOFer Manny Ramirez makes his debut in 1995.


With all the time (enjoyable time, to be sure) I spend looking over these results, I still am greeted with surprises nearly every year. I did not think Al Atkinson would be a first ballot entry until I ran the numbers. Melido Perez I did think would be, but when I ran the numbers, he was not.

After the computer inductions were given their First Ballot Screenings, Perez bubbled to the top of the spread sheet list and got in, but not as easilly as I thought he would.

Melido Perez never achieved notoriety for driving in circles around the city of his home park and missing a start because he couldn't find the exit. So, it is nice to see the Perez family name immortalized here.

Perez was chosen 4th overall by the Boston Red Sox in 1954. He played with them through the 1976 season. He made his last big league appearance in 1979.

He posted 327 wins vs 282 losses and struck out 3634 batters to place him 12th on the All-Time list.

He was a hard luck pitcher in 1974 when he went 12-19 during the regular season while managing a npa ERA+ of 109 for the division winning Red Sox.

In the post season he won both of his starts giving up only 3 ER in 17 innings of work as he, along with fellow HOFer Bobby Murcer, helped the Red Sox win the WS. He was 7-6 in 5 post seasons.

Perez never won a ROY or CYA. His OOTP career ERA of 3.70 is only a npa ERA+ of 101. He was an All-Star only once.

300+ wins AND 3000+ strikeouts and he still had to wait 16 years to get in the Hall? Tough ticket.

Perez enters the Hall by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average.

Black Ink: 7
Gray Ink: 128
HOFm: 151
HOFs: 57


No hitters on the spreadsheet met the standards for entry, so the Selection Committee went to the leader boards, and chaos ensued.

Andy Van Slyke was the highest eligible player on both the VORP and WAR lists. He enters the Hall by virtue of this.

Van Slyke was a terrific player IRL who is often overlooked in an era of cavernous ball parks with acres of foul territory that put an emphasis on speed and defense.

The Saberheadsloved his defensive numbers. The Traditionalists scoffed saying if he was so good, why didn't he win a Gold Glove? The Saberheads tried to explain, but when the Traditionalists offered counter points, they were dismissed as being so stupid that they couldn't do Introductory Algebra. They joked as someone commented that with their lack of math skills, one of them could be elected President....TWICE, even......

The Blue Dogs realized there were two pick to be made, and since the Saberheads were so in love with Van Slyke, they said that his 2271 hits, 270 HRs, 5 ASGs, and his npa OPS+ of 129 playing in football/baseball parks in Oakland, Cleveland, Philly and SF was quite impressive.

They noted his ROY 1970 season when he hit a Traditionalist loving .320 with 25 HRs and 40 doubles and a career best 203 base hits. They also pointed out his 1976 season where he again hit .320.

Humbug! said the Trads....1976 was his FA season. He pumped up his numbers and went and signed a 7year deal and never hit .300, again! The Trads also noted that he went from being an everyday player to a platoon player his second year after signing the big contract in Cleveland. The Trads said that he should have put up a higher average facing fewer lefties!

The Saberheads, trying to appeal the most traditional nature of the Traditionalists pointed out that he won 2 WS in Cleveland, of all places, and no other player from those teams is in the Hall. The Trads responded by saying just because he would be the first doesn't mean he will be the only one. Heck, he only hit .256 in the post season, for crying out loud...he signed with them after they had already won a WS without him the year before!

The Saberheads scoffed: Baaattttiiing average.....HA!

The Blue Dogs knowing there was no way to resolve any one dispute went along with the Saberheads and agreed amongst themselves to take the Traditionalists side on the next one, no matter what name they threw out.

Van Slyke retired following the 1988 season.

Black: 4 (6)
Gray: 101 (44)
HOFm: 51.5 (36)
HOFs: 46 (19)


The Blue Dogs nominated Joe Cassidy because they said he was a great a player but got a raw deal at the major league level. He had the required 10 year service time, though he only had 705 hits. The Blue Dogs said because he once had 200 hits at AAA, he should be in because that made him famous.

With smug smiles on the faces of the Trads, the Saberheads knew the fix was in. "OK, who do YOU people want to put in?"

And the Trads roared, "Harry Lord!"

Knowing that the Blue Dogs had struck this deal with the Trads ahead of time, the Saberheads didn't post an objection.

Harry Lord hit for a BA of .3273 in his career. His is the highest of any eligible player not in the Hall. This places him ahead of Inagural Inductee Rod Carew, who is now in 15th place.

Lord was the 9th player taken in the 1929 draft. He retired following the 1943 season.

The Traditionalists had argued in private, and the Blue Dogs agreed, that it was Lord that got a raw deal. The BDs took that argument and insincerely applied it to Cassidy, but Lord is an interesting character in this league.

With off the charts scouting entering the league, his scouting numbers became pedestrian for his third season. And thats where they stayed.

Never mind that he hit .339 that season, .322 the next, .299, then .320, then .341...the scouts hated him. But he kept on hitting the baseball. In 1937 his BA fell to .281. He never played in 100 games again.

As a part time player in 1938 he hit .338 in 213 ABs. The scouting reports stayed bad, and he never had 100 ABs in a career, again.

He collected 1418 hits while putting together a slash line of 327/365/450 for a career npa OPS+ of 121.

There are a lot of "what might have beens" that get played out in this parallel world. Harry Lord will have to take the "what might have been" monicker from this universe into the next.

In 1935, Lord won a WS with the St Louis Browns with HOF team mates Honus Wagner and Darryl Strawberry.

Lord is a floor breaker.

Black: 0
Gray: 58
HOFm: 61
HOFs: 41

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-24-2012 at 03:56 PM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 07:09 PM   #96
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1996: Maddux

60 Years ago the Hall welcomed it's first class. Gosh, it seems like it has only been a few months.....

RL HOFer Tom Seaver enters the league for the 1996 season.


I had made previous mention of a pitcher that was getting what might be the "Clemens treatment" by the HOF voters. That pitcher was Greg Maddux. Maddux would have been the biggest snub by the numbers and for length of eligibility. That is no more. 47 years after his retirement, the 4 time Cy Young Award winner gets his place in the shrine.

Maddux was the third player drafted overall in 1925, by the St Louis Cardinals. He did not sign with them, and was drafted by the Brooklyn Robins in the THIRD round (do keep in mind that there have been only 5 rounds of drafting since 1910). He signed with Brooklyn, and stayed with the organization for his entire career.

He spent 1927 in AAA. He got called up in 1928 after posting a 7-1 record there, and went 14-5 in this rookie season.He made his last big league appearance in 1949, and retired after that season.

Sources within the Hall have whispered that all agreed he was great pitcher. All agreed that he loved to pitch. Some felt his love for pitching went over the line, and that was the reason for the delay in his entry. These concerns were raised by a loose-lipped first baseman and had nothing to do with slump busting.

Maddux won 366 games in his career which places him in a tie for 7th place on the All time list. He lost 245 which gives him a .599 career win % (33rd). Only Hippo Vaughn and Charlie Ferguson won more games with a higher win %.

Maddux found opposition to his entry from the strident Saberheads who claimed he was simply the luckiest baseball player born and wins and losses meant nothing. They argued that his low strikeout total of 2102 in 5759 1/3 IP gave him a K/W ratio under 2 and that it was luck that his BIP didn't create a higher H/9 figure than his 9.3 career mark.

They ridiculed the Traditionalists who argued that he only had one season where he pitched over 100 innings where his W/L mark was .500 or lower, and that was an 11-12 1932 campaign. "Wins don't matter, you buffoons!"

All of this fictional narrative aside, Maddux just BARELY missed getting in on his First Ballot screening, and the difference in him making it then and not was a lack of any season with 200 strikeouts which depressed his HOFm number enough to keep his HOFm/s composite from exceeding the Hall average at that time, even though his HOFs number was above the average.

In 1996, his HOFm number, as well as all of the others, is above the HOF average. Were he to have retired in 1990, he would have gotten in on the First Ballot screening in 1996.

Maddux did pitch for good teams. He won 3 WS in three tries. In 1928 and 1929 he was teammates with HOFers Babe Herman, Joe Torre, Norm Baker, and Harry Kelley. 3 HOFers in a rotation is pretty good....

In 1943 he was a team mate of HOFer Keith Hernandez for the WS winning Dodgers.

Maddux's career here is a classic case for the Saber/Trad arguments. In 1931 he walked more than he struck out, but he had a 21-11 record with a npa ERA+ 133 OOTP ERA of 2.88.

7 times he won at least 10 more games than he lost. His career ERA of 3.10 is a great ERA+ of 130.

The Blue Dogs are very happy with the Maddux induction. Unlike their ideologically driven associates, they see the value in considering all information, not simply that which is either fashionable or familiar.

His career FIP of 3.61 puts him in the middle of the pack when compared to his most similar pitchers, here (6 of 9 in the HOF, one not yet eligible). His career FIP is better than his HOF teammates and is also the best of the pitchers who won CYAs in the years he won his 4. So, it would be unfair to frame Maddux as being without Sabermetric love, but it is his traditional numbers that are the most eye-popping and it is because of them that this induction appears very long over due. But, he LOVES to pitch....

Black Ink: 78 (87)
Gray Ink: 342 (336)
HOFm: 161.5 (254)
HOFs: 62 (70)

ADD: Maddux is third on the All-Time VORP list, behind Charlie Ferguson and Sandy Koufax.
ADD: Maddux was a 5 time GG winner and 11 time All Star.
Sad ADD: I did a search for "Greg Maddux Mark Grace love to pitch" and came across news I missed of Grace's most recent DUI arrest and termination from the Diamondbacks broadcast team. My previous allusions in this post were made with no knowledge of any of this. None of it is meant to be taken as a piling on to Grace and my "loud mouthed first baseman" comment was completely tongue in cheek. I love Grace as a player and as a personality in the media. I am also a huge fan of Greg Maddux. None of what I wrote is meant as anything disparaging of either of these men, IRL. RE a second DUI arrest: Once can be a mistake...twice, you have a problem. Mark, you have millions who love you and would be willing to help you in any way possible. Pick one.

Attached is the Hall plot chart which includes Maddux who is the plot furthest to the right at 6.7. What has developed is bit of a downward curve at the top of the chart. This is a result of the Ink numbers being more scarce and it is excpetional scores in these areas that create the high outliers.
Attached Images

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 11-27-2012 at 01:54 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:24 PM   #97
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1997: Rosen, Young

No RL HOFer enters the league in 1997. The most notable player, imo, that does is Dick Allen. I am sure that Philly fan would agree with me on this.


One thing I have really liked about doing this is getting something about players that I did not know before. I learned a few things with the induction of Al Rosen in this HOF.

That he piloted a boat landing troops (Marines, I am sure...Semper Fi) on to Okinawa was a fact I did not know.

It also did not know that there is a 2010 documentary narrated by Dustin Hoffman about Jews and baseball to which Rosen contributed. I now have that on my must see list.

Al Rosen was taken by the Cubs with the 12th pick in the 1974 draft. He won 9 Gold Gloves at 3B and was named to 5 AS teams. In 1979 he hit 60 HRs, for the Cubs, driving in 150, scoring 140 (all league bests), and slashing 319/397/637 for a npa OPS+ of 181 to win the MVP. He also led the league in hits (206), TB (415)

In 1980 he led the Cubs to a WS win, hitting .405 in post season play after hitting a league best 38 HRs in the regular season.

He retired following the 1991 season with 2425 hits, 456 HRs (26th), 1538 RBI (40th), and a slash of 262/346/450 for a npa OPS + of 123.

Rosen gains entry with his Black Ink and HOFs numbers being above the current Hall averages. He enters in his first year of eligibility.

Black Ink: 35 (23)
Gray Ink: 125 (87)
HOFm: 128.5 (92)
HOFs: 53 (28)


How many Cy Young Awards did Cy Young win? One. He says he can make as many as he wants, at home.

A First Ballotter through the First Ballot screening, Young put up the type of career we would expect from Cy Young from 1971 through 1991.

He won 340 games (21st) vs 253 losses for a career .573 win %. His OOTP ERA ( I may stop using this term as it does appear that the ER accounting is working accurately, but I won't jump to hopeful conclusins...also, there are players who may enter that completed their career before it wasn't) of 3.48 equates to a npa ERA+ of 114.

The 8th player selected in 1970, Young was on 7 All Star teams. In 1978 he won a career high (equaled once) 24 games vs 11 losses en route to CY's CYA.

He struck out 3488 men while walking only 1011 in 5389 IP. The only HOFers with a better BB/9 number are Cozy P Dolan, Charlie Ferguson, James Burke, and Matt Kilroy. He pitched 41 career shut outs.

He appeared in 3 post seasons with the Reds, but never reached the WS. He has a 1-4 W-L mark in post season play.

All of his metrics in use here are above the current Hall averages.

Black Ink: 45 (99)
Gray Ink: 249 (468)
HOFm: 181 (328)
HOFs: 60 (82)
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 03:15 AM   #98
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1998: Corbett, Stargell, Doyle

From top to bottom, this may be the strongest class to enter, including the original. 35 All Star games, 6 MVP/CYAs, 1200 HRs and 3000 Ks, all in one group. I haven't gone back through the classes but I am fairly certain that the 1200+ HRs is the most for any class, here. This record will stand until the class of 1999 is inducted.....


Joe Corbett was the third player selected in the 1970 draft. He signed with the Reds and played for them from 1971-1988, then bounced to three other teams before retiring in 1992.

Corbett recorded 3686 (10th) strikeouts in a career 4458 2/3 IP. His 7.44 K/9 rate is the 44th best for a career. As far as HOFers go, only Koufax, Rusie, Grove, and Kershaw have a higher career rate.

From 1972 through 1975, he struck out 300 + hitters each season. In 1972 he struck out a career high of 370.

From 194 through 1979 he won 20, or more, games in each season. He won the Cy Young Award in 1974 and 1975. During those two seasons he was a combined 44-22 with 655 Ks, and a npa ERA+ of 171.

For his career he had a 264-206 record with an OOTP ERA of 3.07 which is good for an outstanding career npa ERA+ of 130.

Corbett was a 7 time All-Star and appeared in 5 post seasons. He never made the WS. He also never won a post season game. He went 0-6 with an OOTP ERA of 5.36 in 7 games (all starts).

Corbett gets in on the First Ballot screening given to computer inductees. His Ink and HOF composites were both higher than the current Hall averages.

Black Ink: 51
Gray Ink: 203
HOFm: 169
HOFs: 48


Willie Stargell was a GREAT player IRL. One of those guys that gets passed over in greatest talks. He played in cavernous stadiums during dominantly pitching years and was a stud slugger of epic proportions.

Here, he came into the league with the Indians in 1970 after being taken as the 16th player in the 1969 draft. Cleveland Stadium wasn't exactly a hitter's park, but Stargell turned it into one.

A 3 time MVP and 16 time All Star (only Willie Mays and Frank Robinson are Hall members who went to more ASGs) Stargell posted a 296/360/555 career slash line for a npa OPS+ of 156. Stargells's slg% is 12th best at the time of his induction. Amongst HOFers, only Ken Griffey Jr holds a better mark. Only 2 other retired players (niether yet eligible for the HOF) have a better slg%. Active players plop into the top 10 of this category and slip out, with frequency.

Stargell collected 3470 hits (16th) and drove in 2396 (4th) while banging 788 HRs (4th).

He is 10th on the VORP list and 17th on the WAR list.

His Cleveland Indians won the division each season from 1975 through 1980. They went to 4 WS, and won 3. Stargell went to the A's in a 1985 mid season trade. In 1986 he won a WS with them. He signed with the Dodgers as a free agent that off season. Guess what? The Dodgers won the WS in 1987.

In 1979 he was a teammate of HOFer Amos Rusie for that title team. HOFer Andy Van Slyke was a team mate in '77 and '79. There will be more HOFers from these teams.

Back to willie: 6 times he led the league in HRs (hitting 60 twice) and 6 times he led in RBI. He also won a batting tile in 1972. That year he finished second in the league in both HRs and RBI.

Stargell gets in on the First Ballot screening. His composite score is over 10 which classifies him as a "once in a decade" player.

Black: 90 (17)
Gray: 295 (125)
HOFm: 407 (106)
HOFs: 64 (44)


If Stargell was picked 16th in 1969, who the heck was picked ahead of him?? Larry Doyle, for one....he was the second player taken in the draft (Kansas City Royals). Was he as good as Stargell? No....but he is a legitimate HOFer.

Doyle went to 12 All-Star games and won an MVP in 1974 hitting .317 and 27 HRs while scoring and driving in over 100 runs, all from the second base position. Stargell's Indians won division after division and Doyle never saw the play-offs with the Royals. So, when he became a free agent following the 1976 season, he signed with the Indians...and the rich got richer.

Doyle was on Cleveland's 1979 WS winning team (I said there would be other HOFers from these teams....and there will be more). He hit .302 and 3 HRs in 15 career post season games...all with Cleveland.

For his career, Doyle had a slash line of 296/371/463 for a npa OPS+ of 134. He hit 398 HRs. His 374 as a 2Bman is 3rd best. he stole 592 bases and ranks 6th amongst 2Bman in that career category. He led the league in SB 4 times.

4 times he collected 200+ hits in a season, including a career high 243 (28th) in 1974.

Doyle enters by virtue of his HOFm and HOFs numbers being above the Hall average.

Black: 25 (13)
Gray: 174 (138)
HOFm: 226 (60)
HOFs: 74 (28)


No RL HOFers join the league in 1998. J R Richard is the most noteworthy player (imo) that does.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 09:26 PM   #99
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1999, Hitters: Hornsby, Thompson, Mauer

After having said that I expect to see more RL HOFers enter the league because of expansion, they stopped showing up for a couple years. In 1999 5 HOFers join the league: Tony Gwynn, Bobby Wallace, Chief Bender, Red Ruffing, and Roger Bresnahan.


One RL HOFer started his career here in 1970. The answer to the question of who was picked ahead of both HOFers Larry Doyle and Willie Stargell is Rogers Hornsby. As fine of a first pick over all as you can get....if you can keep him from leaving your team and joining Stargell and Doyle......

Hornsby not only broke the 10 composite score "once in a decade" threshold, his 15.7 puts him smack dab in the middle of the best ever debate with Cobb, Shoeless Joe, and Frank Robinson. His HOFm and HOFs scores are both the best in the HOF.

Hornsby won 7 MVP awards. Only Cobb, Jackson and Robinson won more. His 18 All Star teams is second only to Willie Mays.

Lets take a look at his first 10 seasons...each of these single season totals were his LOWS: .326 BA, .383 OBP, .517 slg, npa OPS+ 155...heck, that's an MVP season, right there. None of those numbers came from his rookie season....yeah, he won ROY.

203 hits, 25 HRs, 92 RBI, 112 R were also lows in each category in his first 10 seasons. Wow.

He had 4 seasons with a npa OPS+ of 200, or more.

Rajah enters the Hall as the career leader in VORP, WAR, Games, AB, Runs (2561) and RBI (2601).

From 1970 through 1993, he collected 4623 hits (2nd to Cobb's 4840), 738 doubles (4th), 142 triples (69th), and 643 HRs (9th). His 1791 walks places him 7th in that category. Adding even further value is the fact that his primary position was SS. He did have only a .983 efficiency rating at SS, but when you play with a HOF 2Bman and can pass at SS, heck yeah that's where you play him.

He appeared in 7 post seasons, 4 WS, and won 3 titles.

HOF team mates from the 1979 Indians: Larry Doyle, Willie Stargell, Andy Van Slyke

HOF team mate from the 1983 Phillies: Fellow 1999 inductee, Hank Thompson

HOF team mate from the 1997 Dodgers: Willie Stargell

There will be more from each of these teams. Quite a FA haul for the 1987 season for the Dodgers, getting Hornsby and Stargell in the same off season.

Hornsby had a career slash line of 320 (27th)/396 (28th)/525 (27th) for a npa OPS+ of 159.

Hornsby enters in his first year of eligibility on the First Ballot screening.

Black Ink: 127 (125)
Gray Ink: 405 (329)
HOFm: 636.5 (350)
HOFs: 89 (76)


A name like Hornsby means one player, and one player only, in the context of baseball greats. Mauer is name that will surprise no one if he enters the RL HOF in 20 years, and the only one that will is named Joe. The name Thompson, though has several plausible possibilities.

Hank Thompson is not the first Thompson to come to mind (Sam, and to a lesser degree Jason would be the first to come to mind for entry here). Having run a few random leagues with OOTP 13, Hank Thompson consistently produces.

I have been using recalc and it appears that once a player's stats have been used for a season that the player development engine takes over. Thompson will have slow starts while being a 4.5-5 star rated current/potential player, and then become a monster. I believe this happens in the years where he had 200 or 300 PAs as a mediocre player, and once those real stats are used up, if the dev engine has been good to him, he kicks in to the 4.5-5 star superstar the scouts report. This performance carries over after his RL playing years have been exhausted.

Thompson was drafted with the 12th pick of the first rd by the Phillies in 1971. He hit .294 with 27 HRs and a npa OPS+ of 166 to win Rookie of the Year.

By the time he retired after the 1993 season, he had 3058 hits (34th, no eligible player that has more is not in the HOF), 649 HRs (8th, same), 2063 RBI (8th, same), and a career slash of 270/382/489 for a npa OPS+ of 146.

Thompson played on 17 All Star teams and picked up 2 GGs at 3B during his career. He played 19 of his 22 seasons with the Phillies. We was on 8 Phillie teams that went to the play-offs. 5 of them went to the WS, and 3 times he won a title with them.

Save for Rogers Hornsby in 1983, Thompson is the only player in the HOF, at this point, from those teams.

Thompson did not enter on the First Ballot Screening afforded to the computer inductees, but he enters in his first year of eligibility on the basis of his HOFm/s numbers both exceeding the Hall average.

Black: 12
Gray: 221
HOFm: 276
HOFs: 72


Joe Mauer enters in his first year of eligibility, though he was not a computer selection and not afforded a First Ballot screening.

The 5th player taken in the 1972 draft, he played most of his career with the team that drafted him, Texas. He did make a stop with the Twins late in his career.

In 1973 he collected 200 hits while batting .319 and was awarded the GG at C along with the Rookie of the Year.

He collected 2903 hits in his career which lasted through the 1991 season, at the major league level. He hit 204 HRs and won 2 additional GGs and made 7 AS teams as he posted a slash line of 289/360/406 for a npa OPS+ of 115.

He made the post season once, in 1975, losing the LCS to that great 70's dynasty, the Cleveland Indians (this world can be so hilarious).

His best season was in 1977 when he hit .332 and collected 201 hits and 24 HRs and topped 100 RBI the only time in his career.

Mauer enters the Hall by virtue of his HOFs number being above the Hall average.

ADD: Mauer is the first floor breaker to get in on his first year of eligibility.

Black: 0
Gray: 63
HOFm: 159
HOFs: 55

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 12-02-2012 at 06:07 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 02:05 AM   #100
All Star Starter
VanillaGorilla's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,370
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 354
Thanked 514x in 267 posts
Class of 1999, Pitcher: Mungo

There is only one Mungo, and his name is Van (nice start to a name, Van).

Van Mungo is another sub .500 pitcher to enter the HOF, but I think the selection committee got this call correct.

Van Mungo was 218-232 for his career. However, in the last 3 years of his career he went 10-40, including a 1-17 penultimate 1946 campaign. He was not the same pitcher his final years. But he still took the ball and gave it his best effort without a care for his career W/L or percentage stats.

In his first 10 years he established something close to a Koufax standard.

Twice he won the CYA. He twice threw a no hitter (one of them a perfect game).

Twice he appeared in the WS and twice won titles.

In 1938 he was given the ball twice in the Fall Classic. Twice he won, and he threw a complete game, you guessed it, twice.

Of course he was drafted 2nd, over all....By the Boston Braves in 1929.

He won WS Championships in 1932, with HOF team mates Ed Dugan, John McGraw, and Jimmy Wynn, and in 1938 with Warren Cromartie and Mack Jones joining Dugan, McGraw and Wynn.

He led the league in Ks each season from 1935-1938. In 1932 he won the CYA with a 25-8 record and an OOTP ERA of 2.11 which was good for a 180 npa ERA+.

Mungo's career ERA was 3.85, an npa ERA+ of 111. This total includes ERA+ seasons of 56 and of 43 with over 100 IP in each.

Van Mungo enters by virtue of his Black Ink number being above the Hall average.

Black Ink: 50 (12)
Gray Ink: 145 (112)
HOFm: 91 (31)
HOFs: 23 (12)

Last edited by VanillaGorilla; 12-01-2012 at 02:06 AM.
VanillaGorilla is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:13 AM.


Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments