Football :(:(

LedgerSko · 04-02-2002, 08:20 AM

Too bad they couldnt team up with Jim Grindin and make GREAT football sims. I find there are alot of faults in Jim's pro and college games which he wont address. If Jim wasnt such a pompous a** this would be the greatest sim company ever. Hopefully someday they can get a guy on board to do a college football game as well. Since EA refuses to make the NCAA series for the computer I am stuck dreaming.

Scott Vibert · 04-02-2002, 08:22 AM

It's not fair to rip Jim Gindin on a board he doesn't read and thereby have a chance to defend himself.

We don't know anything of what went on with the formation of the company, we don't know if he was even invited, so I feel your remarks are off base and unfair and probably aren't in the right place here.

I do agree that football would be a great sport for .400 Studios to pick up though.

EagleEye_0 · 04-02-2002, 08:26 AM

I would expect that .400 studious will be looking to add additional game developers to their arsenal. But you need to start somewhere and combining with the guys that they did is a great start to building the company.

Schmidty · 04-02-2002, 08:28 AM

Do you know Jim? No? Then don't insult him.

I've read his posts many times on FOFC, and he is misunderstood. He stopped posting there for awhile because of people like you, sko dog.

Lay off the guy, it's his business and you don't know the whole story.

LedgerSko · 04-02-2002, 08:31 AM

I never said that Jim wouldnt join or attempted to argue wheter he was ever consulted. I wrote on the message board many times at front office football, asking questions about the games. Everytime I got an answer from him it seemed like he got an attitude of all high and mighty over me and knocked my ideas down and made my questions seem idiotic and worthless. It also seems that he doesnt really have a real desire to stick to his games like Markus and company do. I know he released a series of Front Office games but I felt the dedication was not there, and even if he would read this I am sure the response would be the same to this as to the rest of my coorespondence with him. No offense to you but that is my opinion, and this being a message board I am intitled to my opinion.

In my book football is #1 baseball #2 and hopefully .400 studios can get a football mind on board. Then my dreaming will end.

Thanks

LedgerSko · 04-02-2002, 08:33 AM

Maybe I am spoiled by Markus but that is my opinion and Markus does a better job with relations on the message board like this one.

Scott Vibert · 04-02-2002, 08:36 AM

[quote]Originally posted by sko_dog:
If Jim wasnt such a pompous a** this would be the greatest sim company ever. <hr></blockquote>

Sko,

No offense intended, but by that one sentence you insinuate that Jim is a pompous ass who refused to join the company. This is where that response comes from.

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, however this may be the wrong place to express the opinion, just as the NFL's rules committee meetings would be the wrong place for a referee to comment on the NBA's removal of the illegal defense rule.

CamEdwards · 04-02-2002, 08:53 AM

Just had to throw my $.02 in here...

I've dealt with Jim on a limited basis, trying to arrange to get him as a guest on my show. While it hasn't worked out to date (because of problems on MY end, not his), he's been nothing but courteous and friendly.

Jim isn't as frequent a poster to FOFC (or to the Solecismic board when it was available) but that doesn't make him less of a programmer than Markus or Arlie. After reading some of the moronic questions all three have received, it's a wonder any of them visit ANY message boards.

RawIsDan · 04-02-2002, 09:11 AM

Being a football sim junky and seeing the interface layout for ootp4 I hope they do make a career football sim.

Ever since the Front Page Sports series met it's untimely, misguided death at the hands of those bungling Seirra morons no one has stepped in to fill the gap.

From what I've read about the bb game from the folks here I would be highly interested in such a game and I'm certain other folks feel the same.

Dan

Dan Lorenzen · 04-02-2002, 09:13 AM

Ah Sierra, now there's something worth insulting.

Tekneek · 04-02-2002, 09:15 AM

I think Jim does a good job and I bet you wish you could be in his shoes and just do what he has done so far.

Love the new company though. Best of luck.

Ardent Enthusiast · 04-02-2002, 09:26 AM

This is my first post, and I felt obligated to register and post about this. I bought Jim's games before OOTP, and still play them as often as OOTP. I have asked numerous questions and have always received answers back. He's been more than helpful. I really enjoy the games he's put out.

gamadict · 04-02-2002, 09:42 AM

I think FOF2 might still be my favorite text game ever. I would be suprised if the new outfit can best it on their first try, should they attempt football...

Draft Dodger · 04-02-2002, 09:43 AM

A lot of the problems with Jim stems from the deal with EA Sports (Motto: "we can kill any series"). There's been a lot of negativity floated his way about the way EA (mis)handled the FOF line, and, frankly, that's unfair.

I'd imagine I'd become a bit standoffish if I was subjected to a similar treatment.

Besides, us NH people need to stick together.

Hammer755 · 04-02-2002, 09:50 AM

I think a solid career-based pro football sim with multi-player capabilities would be a significant addition to .400 Software. I'm fairly certain this doesn't currently exist beyond FPS, as Jim is adament regarding keeping FOF single-player. OOTP is playable in solo format, but the online leagues are where the majority of my time and enjoyment lie.

It's interesting how the company has officially existed for about 2 hours, and we already have its future mapped out.

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]

Psicosis · 04-02-2002, 10:04 AM

Yeah. I disagree with some of the design choices Jim has made, but he's been pretty friendly in pretty much every thread I've seen him participate in. He has a strong desire for the game to be his, which isn't necessarily conducive to making everyone happy, but it's respectable.

Markus and Arlie have done great work, and their new games should be incredible. I'm obviously looking forward to both. I don't know much about Title Bout, but it looks interesting, too.

Tekneek · 04-02-2002, 10:17 AM

I've played APBA's boxing game and still have the CD somewhere around here, I think. I always liked that game, so if it is taking that to a new level then it is likely to be very good.

GamingVoice.com · 04-02-2002, 11:00 AM

Well people rip 3DO and EA here, so...

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:
It's not fair to rip Jim Gindin on a board he doesn't read and thereby have a chance to defend himself.
<hr></blockquote>

Glen · 04-02-2002, 11:26 AM

I've had a chance to deal with Jim on more than a few occasions, and actually had a chance to meet him once as well.

I think he does the best that he can with his product and unfortunately a small segment of his fans are, how shall I put this delicately, overzealous.

Anyone who has played his games knows that Jim is as dedicated to his product as anyone else is. Give the guy a chance, he quit his 9 to 5 to make these games for you, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

We are a bit spoiled by Markus on this forum, and how responsive and receptive he is to comments and or criticisms. But, we shouldn't be hard on Jim as a result of this.

Each programmer will be a bit different. I for one am just happy that we have both OOTP and FOF. 5 years ago we had Front Page Sports... ugh... now I feel bad just for remembering that.

Glen

Ksyrup · 04-02-2002, 11:50 AM

To get back to the original thought, I'm not sure how many saw this, but this is from the .400 FAQ:

* Are you looking to add other sports games to your product library?

Absolutely. We will be aggressively pursuing the other major sports, notably football, hockey and soccer, and hope to have one or more of these under development by 2003. We may pursue these ventures either organically (i.e., with the talent already on the team), or, by bringing on additional designers.

So, with or without Jim, it looks like a football game will be in development. For our sake, I hope it is with Jim, if for no other reason than it will take these guys, even as good as they are, a couple of tries just to get near the quality of game that Jim gave us (and EA killed) with FOF2001 (or even FOF2). However, given Jim's development style and the fact that Marcus is more of a multi-player developer and Jim is a solo player developer, I just don't see the synergy, unless they bring him in but let him do what he wants with no input. And at that point, why not just so it yourself (if you're Jim), instead of sharing the profits? He's got very good name recognition already in this field.

Then again, he may be working on a non-sports game right now, like a political sim, which would take him completely out of the picture for the near future.

04-02-2002, 08:36 AM	#7
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	[quote]Originally posted by sko_dog: <strong>If Jim wasnt such a pompous a** this would be the greatest sim company ever. </strong><hr></blockquote> Sko, No offense intended, but by that one sentence you insinuate that Jim is a pompous ass who refused to join the company. This is where that response comes from. You are indeed entitled to your opinion, however this may be the wrong place to express the opinion, just as the NFL's rules committee meetings would be the wrong place for a referee to comment on the NBA's removal of the illegal defense rule.

04-02-2002, 09:43 AM	#14
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	A lot of the problems with Jim stems from the deal with EA Sports (Motto: "we can kill any series"). There's been a lot of negativity floated his way about the way EA (mis)handled the FOF line, and, frankly, that's unfair. I'd imagine I'd become a bit standoffish if I was subjected to a similar treatment. Besides, us NH people need to stick together. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

04-02-2002, 09:50 AM	#15
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	I think a solid career-based pro football sim with multi-player capabilities would be a significant addition to .400 Software. I'm fairly certain this doesn't currently exist beyond FPS, as Jim is adament regarding keeping FOF single-player. OOTP is playable in solo format, but the online leagues are where the majority of my time and enjoyment lie. It's interesting how the company has officially existed for about 2 hours, and we already have its future mapped out. [ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</p>

04-02-2002, 11:00 AM	#18
GamingVoice.com Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 76	Well people rip 3DO and EA here, so... [quote]Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong>It's not fair to rip Jim Gindin on a board he doesn't read and thereby have a chance to defend himself. </strong><hr></blockquote>

04-02-2002, 11:26 AM	#19
Glen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 153	I've had a chance to deal with Jim on more than a few occasions, and actually had a chance to meet him once as well. I think he does the best that he can with his product and unfortunately a small segment of his fans are, how shall I put this delicately, overzealous. Anyone who has played his games knows that Jim is as dedicated to his product as anyone else is. Give the guy a chance, he quit his 9 to 5 to make these games for you, he deserves the benefit of the doubt. We are a bit spoiled by Markus on this forum, and how responsive and receptive he is to comments and or criticisms. But, we shouldn't be hard on Jim as a result of this. Each programmer will be a bit different. I for one am just happy that we have both OOTP and FOF. 5 years ago we had Front Page Sports... ugh... now I feel bad just for remembering that. Glen __________________ Colorado Rockies - DBLC

04-02-2002, 08:20 AM	#1
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085	Football :(:( Too bad they couldnt team up with Jim Grindin and make GREAT football sims. I find there are alot of faults in Jim's pro and college games which he wont address. If Jim wasnt such a pompous a** this would be the greatest sim company ever. Hopefully someday they can get a guy on board to do a college football game as well. Since EA refuses to make the NCAA series for the computer I am stuck dreaming.

04-02-2002, 08:22 AM	#2
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	It's not fair to rip Jim Gindin on a board he doesn't read and thereby have a chance to defend himself. We don't know anything of what went on with the formation of the company, we don't know if he was even invited, so I feel your remarks are off base and unfair and probably aren't in the right place here. I do agree that football would be a great sport for .400 Studios to pick up though.

04-02-2002, 08:26 AM	#3
EagleEye_0 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,426	I would expect that .400 studious will be looking to add additional game developers to their arsenal. But you need to start somewhere and combining with the guys that they did is a great start to building the company.

04-02-2002, 08:28 AM	#4
Schmidty Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cloudy Bellingham, WA Posts: 52	Do you know Jim? No? Then don't insult him. I've read his posts many times on FOFC, and he is misunderstood. He stopped posting there for awhile because of people like you, sko dog. Lay off the guy, it's his business and you don't know the whole story.

04-02-2002, 08:31 AM	#5
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085	I never said that Jim wouldnt join or attempted to argue wheter he was ever consulted. I wrote on the message board many times at front office football, asking questions about the games. Everytime I got an answer from him it seemed like he got an attitude of all high and mighty over me and knocked my ideas down and made my questions seem idiotic and worthless. It also seems that he doesnt really have a real desire to stick to his games like Markus and company do. I know he released a series of Front Office games but I felt the dedication was not there, and even if he would read this I am sure the response would be the same to this as to the rest of my coorespondence with him. No offense to you but that is my opinion, and this being a message board I am intitled to my opinion. In my book football is #1 baseball #2 and hopefully .400 studios can get a football mind on board. Then my dreaming will end. Thanks

04-02-2002, 08:33 AM	#6
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085	Maybe I am spoiled by Markus but that is my opinion and Markus does a better job with relations on the message board like this one.

04-02-2002, 08:53 AM	#8
CamEdwards Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 25	Just had to throw my $.02 in here... I've dealt with Jim on a limited basis, trying to arrange to get him as a guest on my show. While it hasn't worked out to date (because of problems on MY end, not his), he's been nothing but courteous and friendly. Jim isn't as frequent a poster to FOFC (or to the Solecismic board when it was available) but that doesn't make him less of a programmer than Markus or Arlie. After reading some of the moronic questions all three have received, it's a wonder any of them visit ANY message boards.

04-02-2002, 09:11 AM	#9
RawIsDan Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 11	Being a football sim junky and seeing the interface layout for ootp4 I hope they do make a career football sim. Ever since the Front Page Sports series met it's untimely, misguided death at the hands of those bungling Seirra morons no one has stepped in to fill the gap. From what I've read about the bb game from the folks here I would be highly interested in such a game and I'm certain other folks feel the same. Dan

04-02-2002, 09:13 AM	#10
Dan Lorenzen Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 34	Ah Sierra, now there's something worth insulting.

04-02-2002, 09:15 AM	#11
Tekneek Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA, USA Posts: 453	I think Jim does a good job and I bet you wish you could be in his shoes and just do what he has done so far. Love the new company though. Best of luck.

04-02-2002, 09:26 AM	#12
Ardent Enthusiast Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Great Lakes, IL Posts: 77	This is my first post, and I felt obligated to register and post about this. I bought Jim's games before OOTP, and still play them as often as OOTP. I have asked numerous questions and have always received answers back. He's been more than helpful. I really enjoy the games he's put out.

04-02-2002, 09:42 AM	#13
gamadict Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pitsburgh, PA... Posts: 50	I think FOF2 might still be my favorite text game ever. I would be suprised if the new outfit can best it on their first try, should they attempt football...

04-02-2002, 10:04 AM	#16
Psicosis Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 228	Yeah. I disagree with some of the design choices Jim has made, but he's been pretty friendly in pretty much every thread I've seen him participate in. He has a strong desire for the game to be his, which isn't necessarily conducive to making everyone happy, but it's respectable. Markus and Arlie have done great work, and their new games should be incredible. I'm obviously looking forward to both. I don't know much about Title Bout, but it looks interesting, too.

04-02-2002, 10:17 AM	#17
Tekneek Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA, USA Posts: 453	I've played APBA's boxing game and still have the CD somewhere around here, I think. I always liked that game, so if it is taking that to a new level then it is likely to be very good.

04-02-2002, 11:50 AM	#20
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	To get back to the original thought, I'm not sure how many saw this, but this is from the .400 FAQ: * Are you looking to add other sports games to your product library? Absolutely. We will be aggressively pursuing the other major sports, notably football, hockey and soccer, and hope to have one or more of these under development by 2003. We may pursue these ventures either organically (i.e., with the talent already on the team), or, by bringing on additional designers. So, with or without Jim, it looks like a football game will be in development. For our sake, I hope it is with Jim, if for no other reason than it will take these guys, even as good as they are, a couple of tries just to get near the quality of game that Jim gave us (and EA killed) with FOF2001 (or even FOF2). However, given Jim's development style and the fact that Marcus is more of a multi-player developer and Jim is a solo player developer, I just don't see the synergy, unless they bring him in but let him do what he wants with no input. And at that point, why not just so it yourself (if you're Jim), instead of sharing the profits? He's got very good name recognition already in this field. Then again, he may be working on a non-sports game right now, like a political sim, which would take him completely out of the picture for the near future.