Giancarlo Stanton will go to the.... or just stay home?

[Cobra Mgr]

Anyone know how good the prospects Miami got are?

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Anyone know how good the prospects Miami got are?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scou...stanton-trade/

Not specifically. I heard one threw 100 mph but is still in A ball. That's all I know.

[Cobra Mgr]

I feel sorry for Marlin fans. How many self offs have they gone thru now? It's gotta be at least 5.

I'll be glad when they set up a system where the winners make the most profit. Baseball gives its ownership no incentive to win. You shouldn't lose games & become more profitable.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I feel sorry for Marlin fans. How many self offs have they gone thru now? It's gotta be at least 5.

I'll be glad when they set up a system where the winners make the most profit. Baseball gives its ownership no incentive to win. You shouldn't lose games & become more profitable.

This one is squarely on Loria, even though Jeter is taking the heat for it. Not defending Jeter, just saying he's inherited an absolutely no win situation with fans that have been beaten down by their favourite team before. Loria made out like a bandit. Hate that guy.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I feel sorry for Marlin fans.

I don't. They've won 2 World Series. Screw them.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

This one is squarely on Loria, even though Jeter is taking the heat for it. Not defending Jeter, just saying he's inherited an absolutely no win situation with fans that have been beaten down by their favourite team before. Loria made out like a bandit. Hate that guy.

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I don't. They've won 2 World Series. Screw them.

I don't see how a S.Flo fan could ever put their heart into pulling for a team that doesn't ever seem committed to winning. You start at putrid, work your way up to respectable, & just when you think you are ready to step up to contender status, they drop you back down to putrid. They are always more concerned w/being profitable.

I really want baseball to take all of that shared revenue & make each team's cut contingent on where they finished.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't see how a S.Flo fan could ever put their heart into pulling for a team that doesn't ever seem committed to winning. You start at putrid, work your way up to respectable, & just when you think you are ready to step up to contender status, they drop you back down to putrid. They are always more concerned w/being profitable.

I really want baseball to take all of that shared revenue & make each team's cut contingent on where they finished.

Except if you use championships as the ultimate goal then they have been more successful that every other team over the past 30 years save about 5.
I think Florida is taking things to the extreme of 'if we feel like we cannot compete we will trash our team and save the money and get the draft picks'

And maybe that is successful even if it's painful for the fan base?
And when the Stanton contract was signed I remember most in baseball and on this forum agreed it was a bad contract for the long term.

[TribeFanInNC]

I don't think that ownership doesn't want to win in Miami. They just are in a market where they don't have a lot of room for error and have to be conservative. There are at least 10 other teams that are like this, including the Indians. They just can't mess up and spend money that doesn't return value.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I don't think that ownership doesn't want to win in Miami. They just are in a market where they don't have a lot of room for error and have to be conservative. There are at least 10 other teams that are like this, including the Indians. They just can't mess up and spend money that doesn't return value.

I can't blame the fan base for being conservative when the franchise has not given them any long term reason to be invested. The Marlin franchise is a bandwagon hopper's dream. There is no reason to commit when the ownership isn't committed themselves. If I'm a baseball fan in Miami, I'd pay a ticket to see my favorite team visit Florida. There is little love I would have for the hosts. Just wait till Labor Day. And if the team is still in it, I'll start pretending I'm a Marlin Maniac. Otherwise, the Dolphins start the next weekend. If you want fans during the earlier 5 months, you have to give the fans a reason to get off the beach & into the stadium. The Marlins have given zero reasons to put any trust in the front office.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Except if you use championships as the ultimate goal then they have been more successful that every other team over the past 30 years save about 5.
I think Florida is taking things to the extreme of 'if we feel like we cannot compete we will trash our team and save the money and get the draft picks'

And maybe that is successful even if it's painful for the fan base?
And when the Stanton contract was signed I remember most in baseball and on this forum agreed it was a bad contract for the long term.

So what that encourages is a fan base waiting till the fall of the year to see if there is any reason to be interested. Keep telling me you're building for 4-5 yrs down the road I'll say see you in 2023. Why hang around for 2018-22?

It's like continuing to pull from an overdrawn bank account. You get so far into the red that when you finally have a chance to deposit some cash, there's still a negative number.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

So what that encourages is a fan base waiting till the fall of the year to see if there is any reason to be interested. Keep telling me you're building for 4-5 yrs down the road I'll say see you in 2023. Why hang around for 2018-22?

It's like continuing to pull from an overdrawn bank account. You get so far into the red that when you finally have a chance to deposit some cash, there's still a negative number.

The Marlins are 400 million in debt. They are already drawing from an overdrawn account.

I don’t follow baseball that closely, I did not realize that situation was that dire.

I remember this forum killing the Astros several seasons ago. Bottom out now, have a super low payroll, try and pay off some of that debt and collect prospects.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The Marlins are 400 million in debt. They are already drawing from an overdrawn account.

I don’t follow baseball that closely, I did not realize that situation was that dire.

I remember this forum killing the Astros several seasons ago. Bottom out now, have a super low payroll, try and pay off some of that debt and collect prospects.

I have no prob with the "sell-now-so-that-we-will-get-great-faster" strategy. That's what the Astros did. It should be done more often to me, as bad as it sounds. I have a problem with the "sell-now-so-that-we-will-be-profitable-faster" strategy. That's what the Marlins do. Repeatedly.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I have no prob with the "sell-now-so-that-we-will-get-great-faster" strategy. That's what the Astros did. It should be done more often to me, as bad as it sounds. I have a problem with the "sell-now-so-that-we-will-be-profitable-faster" strategy. That's what the Marlins do. Repeatedly.

From the state of their finances it sounds like they are hardly ever profitable. I have never heard of a North American sports franchise having that much debt.

[Airdrop01]

You can’t just look at cash flow.

They were just bought for $1,200,000,000.00.

Even if they incur $50,000,000 in losses for each year of the next seven, which would be astonishing, it’s very likely that at the end of that seven years the franchise could sell for $2,000,000,000.00 or more. It’s probably reasonable to presume they’d sell at $2,500,000,000.00 seven years from now.

That’s where the money is...

[Airdrop01]

By way of illustration, the Glass family bought the Royals for $96,000,000 in 2000.

Despite absolutely putrid team, because the actual marketable asset, an MLB franchise, is such a valuable thing, by 2007 the value had risen to $282,000,000.00 and by 2014 to $490,000,000.00 and by 2017 to just shy of $1,000,000,000.00.

That’s a pretty tidy return. So while that’s not liquidity, in terms of paying for players, there is absolutely equity there against which players can be financed.

Losing money isn’t a problem. But, competitive balance of the product, which is the game and the league, not the individual teams, is the reason we need revenue sharing.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

From the state of their finances it sounds like they are hardly ever profitable. I have never heard of a North American sports franchise having that much debt.

And why are they not profitable? That's my point. Ownership hasn't done what is needed to put fannies in the seats. They haven't encouraged consumer loyalty. Because as soon as you get attatched to a player, in this offseason players, they trade them. This is a case where we know the chicken came before the egg.

Besides, if the Marlins were truly that far in debt, why the heck would someone pay a billion dollars to own all of that debt? Again, an example of "creative accounting". These owners know they will make money when they stink, not when they win.

[Cobra Mgr]

I'll give Jeter credit for directly facing the fans.

[Cobra Mgr]

I'll say this for Dan Lebatard......he isn't "cookie cutter" material. That's a reason why I will listen to him. I don't mind an honest, especially if it isn't mainstream, take on an issue. Sports radio hosts too often speak fire & brimstone thru the airwaves & then when they get the guy they are talking about in front of them, they turn into a vehicle for the guest to spin the story.

However, he injects himself too much into the story. He is a journalist. It is his obligation to the public to @ least put up the front that he is neutral & just trying to get the facts. Not take on an adversarial position. His honest take then loses credibility. It's nice to be a Miami fan in private. But if you are a national broadcaster, you can't appear one-sided.

I liked the way Rob Manfred came back at Dan and wouldn't let himself be bullied or disrespected. But dude was lying thru his teeth. Or else, MLB brass are bigger morons than I thought. There is no way they didn't do any "scouting" of any potential owners of a team. That's bull you-know-what.

Here's the Lebatard prosecution of Manfred. I can't call it an interview.