Trading

orwell · 06-01-2006, 11:22 PM

I guess I'm in the minority, since I've only seen a few other complaints about this issue, but I am shocked at the deterioration of the trading mechanism when all other aspects of the game have been improved. The new features are indeed amazing and wonderful and this is easily the best overall baseball sim in existence, but it's still very frustrating - to me - to see one of the better features of the last version discarded i.e. a way to gauge interest in a player without checking with each team.

In 2006, in fact, not only do you have to check against each team, but against each player on that team. The great thing about the player shop - or at least a function within the trade dialogue screen that lets you ask a team for a response to one of your players without also picking out one of theirs - was that you could get a mix of major- and minor-league players as a response. Now, in 2006, you'd have to drill down into their AAA leagues and below to see every possible offer(s) for one of your players, and that's just for one team.

Of course, I'll get flamed for not being "realistic" or for being "lazy." To that I'd say at least if the tool still existed you'd have the option to turn it off. Maybe everyone out there plays online against real opponents, but for solo play, this is a huge, huge step in the wrong direction - not that my two cents are worth anything, but I feel better typing this out, which is better than nothing.

This is a big enough disappointment to me to make me wonder if I should have bought the game at all.

markprior22 · 06-01-2006, 11:33 PM

I'm not happy with the trading model either. On top of the things listed above, I can't believe that, if I want to trade Joe Smith, I have to drag and drop him to the trade box everytime I select a new team to explore a trade with. At least leave my guy(s) in the trade box so I don't have to keep moving them back everytime I change teams.

megamanmatt · 06-01-2006, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

I'm not happy with the trading model either. On top of the things listed above, I can't believe that, if I want to trade Joe Smith, I have to drag and drop him to the trade box everytime I select a new team to explore a trade with. At least leave my guy(s) in the trade box so I don't have to keep moving them back everytime I change teams.

Actually one of the very few things that bug me is everything goes back to default when you go back. Like if you're looking at batting stats for free agent 1st basemen, for example, and then you click back it automatically sets it back to batting information for all players. Stuff like that. I just kinda wish when you hit back it went back to the info you were looking at too. Different situation, but pretty much same problem.

sean-patin · 06-02-2006, 02:12 AM

OOTP needs a Trading Block and "Shop Player" option.

PSUColonel · 06-02-2006, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean-patin

OOTP needs a Trading Block and "Shop Player" option.

Noit doesn't need a shop playr option...trading was way too easy in previous versions.

bababui · 06-02-2006, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Noit doesn't need a shop playr option...trading was way too easy in previous versions.

shopping players and trading ease are two seperate issues.

bp88 · 06-02-2006, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Noit doesn't need a shop playr option...trading was way too easy in previous versions.

Some people like easy. It should have been left there as an option if anything else for those people that did like the feature.

bababui · 06-02-2006, 05:58 AM

You can make trading very easy, easy etc in OOTP2006

never_ends · 06-02-2006, 06:06 AM

well, the Trading feature is certainly different... took hours to find the right transactions link to click on...

I did finally pull off a trade (it is a hassle for sure) but the biggest turn off was when swapping two not very good players I managed to get 25M tossed my way as part of the deal... would have been more but the other team only had 25M! Trading needs to be looked at...

bp88 · 06-02-2006, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

You can make trading very easy, easy etc in OOTP2006

Well I think easy is the wrong word. I mean the task of simplifying trades. Where you can see what the other team wants and get an idea of where to start off. Being able to simply click one button that would find you all potential one-to-one player deals is what I mean by simplifying (shop the player feature). Being able to know what players are being shopped or which ones can't be touched, that simplify things for the user. Those things aren't in this game. They should have been left as options. Yea I'm sure you can probably still rip off the computer and that's easy but I'd bed it isn't as simple as it used to be.

bababui · 06-02-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balmes Pavlov

Well I think easy is the wrong word. I mean the task of simplifying trades. Where you can see what the other team wants and get an idea of where to start off. Being able to simply click one button that would find you all potential one-to-one player deals is what I mean by simplifying (shop the player feature). Being able to know what players are being shopped or which ones can't be touched, that simplify things for the user. Those things aren't in this game. They should have been left as options. Yea I'm sure you can probably still rip off the computer and that's easy but I'd bed it isn't as simple as it used to be.

The financial system is harder to cheat. With a strict salary cap no one will be able to be the 27 Yankees for very long.

bp88 · 06-02-2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bababui

The financial system is harder to cheat. With a strict salary cap no one will be able to be the 27 Yankees for very long.

Well the financial system has improved greatly in this game. It's arguably the best improvement to the game. Notice I did not say addition since this was already part of the other games. The ability to have multiple leagues may be the best addition so far.

orwell · 06-02-2006, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Noit doesn't need a shop playr option...trading was way too easy in previous versions.

Too easy for you, because you're so much smarter than me. Bring the option back. Gifted people like you can turn it off - everyone's happy. Simple, no?

mh2365 · 06-02-2006, 09:45 AM

I'm not so sure trade player and shopping block are unrealistic. GM's let it be known that certain players could be had all the time. What I'd like to see is that if you put player A on the block, there is a memory involved. If you get some quality offers for player A and turn them all down, the next time maybe the other GM's don't come calling quite so quick.

Obviously AI like that might be aways off, but it'd still be nice. Also I'd like to see other GM's pull out of a deal when you change something they agree on. So you say I'll give you A&B for C&D, they say okay and then you come back with oh yeah throw in player E, once again they say okay. So now you say and I want 100,000$, then they say no the entire deal is off.

Hard to phrase how I mean but maybe you get the picture.

gskong · 06-02-2006, 01:54 PM

The only add I have is to make it easier to initiate a trade. Instead of having to go to the transaction screen each time I wish to offer a trade, I'd like to simply right-click on a player on another team that I'm browsing and be able to select "trade for this player" as one of the options.

I'm surprised noone else has mentioned this. One of the biggest joys of this game is the ability to scout different team, nations, leagues, etc. It's frustrating to have a scout recommand certain players but having no easy way to trade for those player through a simple righ-click function. Having said all that, we all have to recognize that this is an early build of an ambitious game and should be nothing short of impressed by how good it is already.

bababui · 06-02-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gskong

The only add I have is to make it easier to initiate a trade. Instead of having to go to the transaction screen each time I wish to offer a trade, I'd like to simply right-click on a player on another team that I'm browsing and be able to select "trade for this player" as one of the options.

I'm surprised noone else has mentioned this. One of the biggest joys of this game is the ability to scout different team, nations, leagues, etc. It's frustrating to have a scout recommand certain players but having no easy way to trade for those player through a simple righ-click function. Having said all that, we all have to recognize that this is an early build of an ambitious game and should be nothing short of impressed by how good it is already.

"

chriskelly · 06-02-2006, 02:41 PM

I think that I agree w/ the need for a trading block. In real life, there is no real trading block, it's driven by rumors. I agree that the old block was a little too easy, since it gave you sometimes 20 offers to choose from at once. But....I'd support adding it in a patch and allowing it to be turned on or off.

I'd rather see a rumor mill. One way to do this would be; if I offer a player in a trade, it should somehow become known to the rest of the league that I might want to deal that player. So, the odds of another team sending me an offer for him should increase. Depending on how good he is, some teams should overpay in their offers because of the bidding war. This would be more realistic.

I agree that it is very hard to even figure out who to trade for and for whom, but I'm not sure how to make it easier. Maybe a trade analysis feature could be added to the scout menu. So, I'd assign a scout to locate for me potential trade bait at certain positions based on criteria I set, depth and needs of the other team, etc. The answers coming back would not be offers, but they would be the opinion of the scout. So....I say, I need a veteran LF for a "win now" scenario, and they go scout the league and come back with 5 guys who might fit the bill and what their existing teams might be willing to trade them for.

chriskelly · 06-02-2006, 05:04 PM

it would also be nice to be able to approach a team about a player to see what they'd accept in return without offering an actual trade.

bababui · 06-02-2006, 05:09 PM

IMO there is a real trading block IRL. It happens when a GM faxes the name of player or players he is looking to trade...example: last week Esteban Yan of the Angels.

bulldog55 · 06-02-2006, 05:14 PM

Personally, I prefer the old put-a-player-on-the-trading-block-and-wait-for-an-offer system. I don't like being able to put a player in my trade screen and go from team to team until I find the one who is offering the most, then go through and start with their best players and work down until I find what they're willing to give up.

Trading needs to be like interacting with a person, and the GMs need to get upset the more you ask them what they will give you. Actually, Front Office Football has the best model for this I've seen -- you shop a player and it shows you which teams are most interested, but the more you do it, the more likely other GMs are to not respond.

I think a two-tiered system would be great, one that starts with FOF's model and then allows you to enter more specific negotiations with individual teams, ask them what they'd give you for someone and go from there, again with a limit on how much you can ask. And the more combinations you try, the less patient they get. You shouldn't be able to put every player on their team on and off the block until you find a trade and you shouldn't be able to start with a minimal amount of cash, keep adding until they refuse, then go back down to the highest amount they'll give you (I haven't explored trading in this version yet so I don't know how it works; I'm talking about the former system).

There has to be a happy medium between no offers at all and offering up half their team -- something that feels like you're on the line with another person who has their own interests at stake and isn't willing to show their hand completely, but also wants to be obliging to open up negotiations.

06-01-2006, 11:22 PM	#1
orwell Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 472	Trading I guess I'm in the minority, since I've only seen a few other complaints about this issue, but I am shocked at the deterioration of the trading mechanism when all other aspects of the game have been improved. The new features are indeed amazing and wonderful and this is easily the best overall baseball sim in existence, but it's still very frustrating - to me - to see one of the better features of the last version discarded i.e. a way to gauge interest in a player without checking with each team. In 2006, in fact, not only do you have to check against each team, but against each player on that team. The great thing about the player shop - or at least a function within the trade dialogue screen that lets you ask a team for a response to one of your players without also picking out one of theirs - was that you could get a mix of major- and minor-league players as a response. Now, in 2006, you'd have to drill down into their AAA leagues and below to see every possible offer(s) for one of your players, and that's just for one team. Of course, I'll get flamed for not being "realistic" or for being "lazy." To that I'd say at least if the tool still existed you'd have the option to turn it off. Maybe everyone out there plays online against real opponents, but for solo play, this is a huge, huge step in the wrong direction - not that my two cents are worth anything, but I feel better typing this out, which is better than nothing. This is a big enough disappointment to me to make me wonder if I should have bought the game at all.

06-02-2006, 01:54 PM	#15
gskong Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 28	The only add I have is to make it easier to initiate a trade. Instead of having to go to the transaction screen each time I wish to offer a trade, I'd like to simply right-click on a player on another team that I'm browsing and be able to select "trade for this player" as one of the options. I'm surprised noone else has mentioned this. One of the biggest joys of this game is the ability to scout different team, nations, leagues, etc. It's frustrating to have a scout recommand certain players but having no easy way to trade for those player through a simple righ-click function. Having said all that, we all have to recognize that this is an early build of an ambitious game and should be nothing short of impressed by how good it is already. Last edited by gskong; 06-02-2006 at 01:57 PM.

06-02-2006, 05:14 PM	#20
bulldog55 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California's Canada Warnings: 17 Posts: 2,475	Personally, I prefer the old put-a-player-on-the-trading-block-and-wait-for-an-offer system. I don't like being able to put a player in my trade screen and go from team to team until I find the one who is offering the most, then go through and start with their best players and work down until I find what they're willing to give up. Trading needs to be like interacting with a person, and the GMs need to get upset the more you ask them what they will give you. Actually, Front Office Football has the best model for this I've seen -- you shop a player and it shows you which teams are most interested, but the more you do it, the more likely other GMs are to not respond. I think a two-tiered system would be great, one that starts with FOF's model and then allows you to enter more specific negotiations with individual teams, ask them what they'd give you for someone and go from there, again with a limit on how much you can ask. And the more combinations you try, the less patient they get. You shouldn't be able to put every player on their team on and off the block until you find a trade and you shouldn't be able to start with a minimal amount of cash, keep adding until they refuse, then go back down to the highest amount they'll give you (I haven't explored trading in this version yet so I don't know how it works; I'm talking about the former system). There has to be a happy medium between no offers at all and offering up half their team -- something that feels like you're on the line with another person who has their own interests at stake and isn't willing to show their hand completely, but also wants to be obliging to open up negotiations. __________________ Commissioner, Trans-Continental Base Ball Association Owner/GM, Los Angeles Electrics (TCBA), Beaverton Rangers (OTBL), Portland Mavericks (Union League), and Los Angeles Superbas (Century League) Being smart, don't always make you popular. Last edited by bulldog55; 06-02-2006 at 05:16 PM.

06-01-2006, 11:33 PM	#2
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,225 Blog Entries: 2	I'm not happy with the trading model either. On top of the things listed above, I can't believe that, if I want to trade Joe Smith, I have to drag and drop him to the trade box everytime I select a new team to explore a trade with. At least leave my guy(s) in the trade box so I don't have to keep moving them back everytime I change teams.

06-02-2006, 02:12 AM	#4
sean-patin Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 205	OOTP needs a Trading Block and "Shop Player" option.

06-02-2006, 05:58 AM	#8
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	You can make trading very easy, easy etc in OOTP2006

06-02-2006, 06:06 AM	#9
never_ends Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 133	well, the Trading feature is certainly different... took hours to find the right transactions link to click on... I did finally pull off a trade (it is a hassle for sure) but the biggest turn off was when swapping two not very good players I managed to get 25M tossed my way as part of the deal... would have been more but the other team only had 25M! Trading needs to be looked at...

06-02-2006, 09:45 AM	#14
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	I'm not so sure trade player and shopping block are unrealistic. GM's let it be known that certain players could be had all the time. What I'd like to see is that if you put player A on the block, there is a memory involved. If you get some quality offers for player A and turn them all down, the next time maybe the other GM's don't come calling quite so quick. Obviously AI like that might be aways off, but it'd still be nice. Also I'd like to see other GM's pull out of a deal when you change something they agree on. So you say I'll give you A&B for C&D, they say okay and then you come back with oh yeah throw in player E, once again they say okay. So now you say and I want 100,000$, then they say no the entire deal is off. Hard to phrase how I mean but maybe you get the picture.

06-02-2006, 02:41 PM	#17
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 739	I think that I agree w/ the need for a trading block. In real life, there is no real trading block, it's driven by rumors. I agree that the old block was a little too easy, since it gave you sometimes 20 offers to choose from at once. But....I'd support adding it in a patch and allowing it to be turned on or off. I'd rather see a rumor mill. One way to do this would be; if I offer a player in a trade, it should somehow become known to the rest of the league that I might want to deal that player. So, the odds of another team sending me an offer for him should increase. Depending on how good he is, some teams should overpay in their offers because of the bidding war. This would be more realistic. I agree that it is very hard to even figure out who to trade for and for whom, but I'm not sure how to make it easier. Maybe a trade analysis feature could be added to the scout menu. So, I'd assign a scout to locate for me potential trade bait at certain positions based on criteria I set, depth and needs of the other team, etc. The answers coming back would not be offers, but they would be the opinion of the scout. So....I say, I need a veteran LF for a "win now" scenario, and they go scout the league and come back with 5 guys who might fit the bill and what their existing teams might be willing to trade them for.

06-02-2006, 05:04 PM	#18
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 739	it would also be nice to be able to approach a team about a player to see what they'd accept in return without offering an actual trade.

06-02-2006, 05:09 PM	#19
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,147 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	IMO there is a real trading block IRL. It happens when a GM faxes the name of player or players he is looking to trade...example: last week Esteban Yan of the Angels.