Trading - Page 2

PSUColonel · 06-02-2006, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriskelly

I think that I agree w/ the need for a trading block. In real life, there is no real trading block, it's driven by rumors. I agree that the old block was a little too easy, since it gave you sometimes 20 offers to choose from at once. But....I'd support adding it in a patch and allowing it to be turned on or off.

I'd rather see a rumor mill. One way to do this would be; if I offer a player in a trade, it should somehow become known to the rest of the league that I might want to deal that player. So, the odds of another team sending me an offer for him should increase. Depending on how good he is, some teams should overpay in their offers because of the bidding war. This would be more realistic.

I agree that it is very hard to even figure out who to trade for and for whom, but I'm not sure how to make it easier. Maybe a trade analysis feature could be added to the scout menu. So, I'd assign a scout to locate for me potential trade bait at certain positions based on criteria I set, depth and needs of the other team, etc. The answers coming back would not be offers, but they would be the opinion of the scout. So....I say, I need a veteran LF for a "win now" scenario, and they go scout the league and come back with 5 guys who might fit the bill and what their existing teams might be willing to trade them for.

This is something I can see being aded in the future. remember everyone....this is NOT your dady's OOTP, and there are many changes. What you see as a regression from previous versions may in fact be the foundation for something greater in the future. Markus only had so much time to get what he could in. Don't you think a player personality and media model might be added to the game in the future? Trading blocks may well be handled similarly to the way players are transfer listed in CM, which does involve rumor media stories. This is all likely coming. To implement things the way the USED to be in OOTP would be a huge wate of time considering what is likely being planned for the future. I am not being a fanboy here, I am simply asking those of you who are hung up on the old ways to please have a little vision, and trust the SI team in their design decisions. they didn't get as big as they are by dong things half assed...trust me.

GabeRivers · 06-02-2006, 06:02 PM

Personally, I can live without the trading block, shopping players and the star system. What I need is the ability to easily navigate the trade screen without having to re-input the player (or players) I'm hoping to trade everytime I switch target teams. Even more important, I need a quick way to see current and potential ratings on the trade screen. If I'm reading the list of fixes in the first patch, it sounds like these concerns are about to be addressed -- which is great news.

I like the way the answers are not immediate to trade offers. It seems more realistic, particularly since the game is now structured on a more day-to-day, year-round basis. You can get a flavor of whether you're in the ballpark by the opposing manager's comments ("Send me the offer; I've got to think it over" vs. "No way I'd consider an old veteran like him that just eats $$$").

One thing I would like to see is a sheet I could go to as GM that lists the oustanding offers that I have floating out there waiting for a response, both in terms of trade offers and FA offers. I've found myself trying to remember if I've already offered a certain player, or if I've got something in the works that will hopefully provide the SS position I badly need to fill, etc. Maybe something like that is already available in the game and I simply haven't found it yet. If so, somebody please point me in the right direction.

PSUColonel · 06-02-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabeRivers

Personally, I can live without the trading block, shopping players and the star system. What I need is the ability to easily navigate the trade screen without having to re-input the player (or players) I'm hoping to trade everytime I switch target teams. Even more important, I need a quick way to see current and potential ratings on the trade screen. If I'm reading the list of fixes in the first patch, it sounds like these concerns are about to be addressed -- which is great news.

I like the way the answers are not immediate to trade offers. It seems more realistic, particularly since the game is now structured on a more day-to-day, year-round basis. You can get a flavor of whether you're in the ballpark by the opposing manager's comments ("Send me the offer; I've got to think it over" vs. "No way I'd consider an old veteran like him that just eats $$$").

One thing I would like to see is a sheet I could go to as GM that lists the oustanding offers that I have floating out there waiting for a response, both in terms of trade offers and FA offers. I've found myself trying to remember if I've already offered a certain player, or if I've got something in the works that will hopefully provide the SS position I badly need to fill, etc. Maybe something like that is already available in the game and I simply haven't found it yet. If so, somebody please point me in the right direction.

I agree completely with all of this.

orwell · 06-02-2006, 10:45 PM

It still seems so simple to me - to those for whom it's too easy, don't use it, but at least leave the option in.

chriskelly · 06-03-2006, 10:55 AM

you guys are all correct....I am sure that these ideas will be listened to, and the most realistic of them might be added in the future. I just wish trading was somehow easier in terms of digesting information. We've got all this scouting data on ratings, potential, etc....it seems logical that scouts could also report back with trade possibilities.

blackrussian · 06-03-2006, 11:20 AM

the logic behind this isnt much different from another SI game, football manager. it just happens that the football system uses "transfers" rather than trades. but if i recall correctly, a GM can declare interest in a player he wishes to sign/transfer and conversely, transfer list a player he is trying to get rid of, eventually receiving offers from other teams.

that's almost like having a trading-block, as yr essentially declaring to the league that you are interested in moving player X. not unlike real-life either, when teams make statements to the effect of "we want to trade this guy because of..."

if we can have some logic analogous to this implemented in OOTP, trading might be a bit easier without getting too easy.

chriskelly · 06-04-2006, 10:51 PM

I've seen it requested, but does anyone know if the block will make it into the patch?

Treen007 · 06-05-2006, 04:33 PM

I'm finding that the trades that are offered are extremely unbalanced, including AI to AI trades. In my current game Roy Oswalt was traded for 46 year old J. Franco. there is no way in a million years that trade would be accepted IRL That's with the trading difficulty set on average, between two AI controlled teams.

there are also many other instances of terrible trades in this game. Between the Rangers and Mets, C. Allen (who?) and S. Feldman (who??) for Beltran and 3mil in cash. just terrible. I checked the ratings of these players and they are rubbish and have rubbish potential too.

And heres a doozey that was offered to me... Larry Walker for Schilling, Halama and H. Ramirez.

I'm using Arod/Garlon's Database, but I dont think it's a DB issue as comparing the player ratings shows how unfair these deals are.

I'm not straight up bashing this game, I've found it overwhelming and expansive but I've been trying to learn the vastness of it. I think 2006 has a chance to be great. but if trading cant be worked out so fair deals are made its not gonna fly. I have faith in SI as a FM user, so here's hoping that patch will help.

Erithtotl · 06-05-2006, 05:10 PM

There are many indications that the AI was not set up to value players properly. Specifically, any experienced player with a non-trivial contract is considered 'overpaid' and the AI won't trade for it unless the trade is extremely lopsided, which applies to the trades you described. We have a bug in about this, I'm guessing that what you're seeing is the same problem, only between AI teams.

Since trading is so darn hard to do interface and usability wise in 2006, I think these problems have not become as obvious yet.

06-02-2006, 10:45 PM	#24
orwell Major Leagues Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 472	It still seems so simple to me - to those for whom it's too easy, don't use it, but at least leave the option in. Last edited by orwell; 06-02-2006 at 10:47 PM.

06-03-2006, 11:20 AM	#26
blackrussian All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 954	the logic behind this isnt much different from another SI game, football manager. it just happens that the football system uses "transfers" rather than trades. but if i recall correctly, a GM can declare interest in a player he wishes to sign/transfer and conversely, transfer list a player he is trying to get rid of, eventually receiving offers from other teams. that's almost like having a trading-block, as yr essentially declaring to the league that you are interested in moving player X. not unlike real-life either, when teams make statements to the effect of "we want to trade this guy because of..." if we can have some logic analogous to this implemented in OOTP, trading might be a bit easier without getting too easy. __________________ v'

06-02-2006, 06:02 PM	#22
GabeRivers Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 82	Personally, I can live without the trading block, shopping players and the star system. What I need is the ability to easily navigate the trade screen without having to re-input the player (or players) I'm hoping to trade everytime I switch target teams. Even more important, I need a quick way to see current and potential ratings on the trade screen. If I'm reading the list of fixes in the first patch, it sounds like these concerns are about to be addressed -- which is great news. I like the way the answers are not immediate to trade offers. It seems more realistic, particularly since the game is now structured on a more day-to-day, year-round basis. You can get a flavor of whether you're in the ballpark by the opposing manager's comments ("Send me the offer; I've got to think it over" vs. "No way I'd consider an old veteran like him that just eats $$$"). One thing I would like to see is a sheet I could go to as GM that lists the oustanding offers that I have floating out there waiting for a response, both in terms of trade offers and FA offers. I've found myself trying to remember if I've already offered a certain player, or if I've got something in the works that will hopefully provide the SS position I badly need to fill, etc. Maybe something like that is already available in the game and I simply haven't found it yet. If so, somebody please point me in the right direction.

06-03-2006, 10:55 AM	#25
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 741	you guys are all correct....I am sure that these ideas will be listened to, and the most realistic of them might be added in the future. I just wish trading was somehow easier in terms of digesting information. We've got all this scouting data on ratings, potential, etc....it seems logical that scouts could also report back with trade possibilities.

06-04-2006, 10:51 PM	#27
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 741	I've seen it requested, but does anyone know if the block will make it into the patch?

06-05-2006, 04:33 PM	#28
Treen007 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 7	I'm finding that the trades that are offered are extremely unbalanced, including AI to AI trades. In my current game Roy Oswalt was traded for 46 year old J. Franco. there is no way in a million years that trade would be accepted IRL That's with the trading difficulty set on average, between two AI controlled teams. there are also many other instances of terrible trades in this game. Between the Rangers and Mets, C. Allen (who?) and S. Feldman (who??) for Beltran and 3mil in cash. just terrible. I checked the ratings of these players and they are rubbish and have rubbish potential too. And heres a doozey that was offered to me... Larry Walker for Schilling, Halama and H. Ramirez. I'm using Arod/Garlon's Database, but I dont think it's a DB issue as comparing the player ratings shows how unfair these deals are. I'm not straight up bashing this game, I've found it overwhelming and expansive but I've been trying to learn the vastness of it. I think 2006 has a chance to be great. but if trading cant be worked out so fair deals are made its not gonna fly. I have faith in SI as a FM user, so here's hoping that patch will help.

06-05-2006, 05:10 PM	#29
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	There are many indications that the AI was not set up to value players properly. Specifically, any experienced player with a non-trivial contract is considered 'overpaid' and the AI won't trade for it unless the trade is extremely lopsided, which applies to the trades you described. We have a bug in about this, I'm guessing that what you're seeing is the same problem, only between AI teams. Since trading is so darn hard to do interface and usability wise in 2006, I think these problems have not become as obvious yet.