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iOOTP - General Discussions Talk about iOOTP Baseball, the baseball management simulation for iPhone/iPod/iPad |
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07-23-2011, 01:17 PM | #21 | |
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I agree....
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07-23-2011, 01:50 PM | #22 |
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I guess people come to games for different reason, some Strat players (myself included) have tried out ioopt because we've been seeking a sim baseball game in an app environment, something that Strat does not appear to have serious plans to develop, but which some Strat players have been advocating for. I have always enjoyed my SOM experience. I have both the pc game, and the cards (love the cards!) but the ioopt has been fun from the start and i plan to acquire all the seasons as they become available. I am not a sabre-matrician so i am unarmed when it comes to engaging in the the analytics discussions, however, i have found that i get more enjoyment out of ioopt by playing it but not wishing it was strat when i do play. It's not and i am pretty sure it doesn't intend to be. But, for now, if you want an engaging and realistic sim game in an app environment, this is your choice. Further, what i really like, is despite being the only such product on the market, ioopt (palli, et., al.) have been open to issues raised here and have taken that feedback and acted on it. I like buying things from businesses who respect me as a customer (no matter how misguided my insights might be!).
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07-23-2011, 01:55 PM | #23 | |
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07-23-2011, 02:05 PM | #24 |
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Interesting discussion here has migrated to the Strat forum. May not be up long though as that forum gets picky about other sim games being discussed.
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07-23-2011, 02:15 PM | #25 | |
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The statistical story of Morgan being a poor fielder early in his career, developing into a good fielder in the middle of his career, followed by his range noticeably dropping after the age of 32 isn't at all hard to believe. |
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07-23-2011, 02:33 PM | #26 |
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I do not refer simply to Joe Morgan. I did not pay close attention to his career, although I do recall him being considered one of the best during the Big Red era.
I do take homage when I see players like Robinson Cano and Mark Teixeira being rated as average or below average fielders (like version 12 does). They both won gold glove last year and watching 90% of the games, I can say in no uncertain terms, they were the best at their positions in the league. Maybe both of their stats lowered playing next to each other.... Bottom line they both deserved to be rated as the best (as SOM does). Any game that does not rate these two at the highest level are really missing the boat. Stats do not tell the whole story. There are too many other factors. |
07-23-2011, 03:09 PM | #27 |
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In the full version, Cano is rated an 11 (out of 20) and Tex a 17. Both about right. Jeter is 10, too generous. ARod a 9, about right.
Caving to Yankee fans and over-rating them all would be a bad decision. |
07-23-2011, 03:47 PM | #28 |
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Tex is one of the top first basemen of all time (defensively). Him, Bill White and Don Mattingly are hands down the top 3. (Gehrig was supposed to be good but can't remember exactly any reports). They gave Tex an 11 range rating???????
Cano an 11.... are you kidding me. He had incredible range and had only 3 errors all season. He deserved the gold glove more than any other player who received the award. AN ELEVEN... now I know why OOTP will never be more than an also ran in baseball simulation games... Great game if you want to play pure fictitious league but do not even consider doing a realistic replay if you care about the players performing as they do in RL with same true abilities because it won't happen. AN ELEVEN HOLY ****.... Markus, you really got to actually watch a few games to get close on ratings. Jeter won the gold glove and yes he has lost a step or two, but there is not a more solid day in day out defensive short stop. He had the highest fielding % in history for a full time short stop... hmmm there is a stat for the stat only people.... a ten..... that is just wrong. Yes, the baseball sim people know more about baseball than the people who live baseball day in day out their entire lives... some for 60+ years.... NOT... The baseball people gave him the award as the best.... SOM gave him a 3 to reflect his loosing a step or two, but then they gave him deserved in the other ratings.... oh yea, there is more to fielding your position than just range rating... Ask all the infielders how much they appreciated having Tex there to pull those throws out of the dirt.... Even though both Jeter and Cano were great last year, (combined 9 errors for your middle infield... WOW) they would have had more than the record setting low errors that they both had if it was not for Tex... Can you tell me how you feel a 10 out of 20 is too generous for a gold glove winner.... I suppose you claim to know more than the people who have devoted their lives to baseball... A players abilities do not change dramatically from year to year as the pure numbers indicate if you go only by the numbers... Sorry, but you are dead wrong... Last edited by RandyMyers; 07-23-2011 at 03:54 PM. |
07-23-2011, 04:02 PM | #29 |
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There's no point continuing to discuss defense with anyone who thinks Jeter was great defensively last season, or at any point in his career. He makes bad range look good, and fools a lot of people in the process. There's been some comical GG's over the years. Jeter's are among the worst.
Last edited by ike121212; 07-23-2011 at 05:42 PM. |
07-23-2011, 04:11 PM | #30 |
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... (pulled, not worth replying to)
Just one quick thought.... it is the managers and coaches who give out the awards, not the writers. They are also not allowed to vote for players on their own team. Therefore the Golden Glove award is truly an award given by their piers.... maybe the single most meaningful award given each year because opposing managers and coaches are the ones who vote. If you think you know more than these men who have dedicated their lives to baseball then more power to you. I personally feel that these are the people who know the most about baseball and trust their opinions above all else. Last edited by RandyMyers; 07-23-2011 at 05:10 PM. |
07-23-2011, 05:07 PM | #31 |
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Let me first say this, this may not mean much in this conversation, but in my ioopt 2011 season completed, Derek Jeter's fielding percentage was .979; in real life it is .980 for the 2011 season so far, per baseball reference.
18 games in to my 76 ioopt replay, Morgan is fielding at .980. In real life for 1976 he was at a .981 fielding percentage. Last edited by Husky51; 07-23-2011 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Mistake fixed, more info added |
07-23-2011, 05:41 PM | #32 | |
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Back to the point though, factoring in Gold Gloves in fielding ratings would be foolish. |
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07-23-2011, 07:21 PM | #33 | |
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07-23-2011, 07:32 PM | #34 | |
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Highly rated players have had there reputations and careers dragged through the mud because of some bored persons new, benign and farcical rating. I will take experienced persons who dedicated there life's to the game opinions any day over some new number crunch. All the numbers do is cloud the picture. Guess what people.... more often than not numbers lie... Don't get me wrong... the numbers have a place, as long as a little common sense and reasoning are used with them. Therefore a game engine that is based purely on the numbers is missing the boat in a big way. |
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07-23-2011, 07:41 PM | #35 |
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Admittedly some things have gone wrong in some awards, Palemeiro was one of course (but he did play one heck of a first base for those 28 games), however here is a quote from Sports Illustrated:
"The old standby, fielding percentage, is inadequate. It hurts players with good range, who often make errors on balls that slower fielders would not reach. Range factor (putouts plus assists) and Zone Rating (a nebulous STATS, Inc. concoction) can be compromised by luck, the type of pitching staff a team has (flyball vs. groundball) and the ballpark it plays in. Sabermetricians have come up with something you need an aerospace engineering degree to understand, Ultimate Zone Rating, which sounded like a good idea until it told us Darin Erstad was the best player in the history of the world." Point being that the numbers, no matter what method you come up with, by themselves do not tell the whole story. |
07-23-2011, 07:59 PM | #36 |
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This was posted on the strat forum as the ratings conversation here is also being discussed there. The poster of the content in bold has nearly 5000 posts on that site:
"I dont know anything about OOTP, but i'll be the contrarian here and say from everything i've ever read comparing all-time greats, morgan was an average defensive second baseman. Another thing to keep in mind is that for many years (not anymore), strat was married to the very flawed gold glove = '1' rating system, so it's not Even certain the powers that be at strat even agree with his consistent '1' ratings." |
07-23-2011, 08:26 PM | #37 | |
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Jeter vs Ripken has always been an interesting comparison to me. Jeter is -14.1 dWAR for his career, Ripken is +17.6. Over 3000+ games, statistical anomalies aren't an issue. 1 is consistently below average, 1 is consistently above. Yankee fans think the 2 were defensive equals. O's fan's know Ripken was significantly better. Personally, I think it shows that you can never ask a Yankee fan to be objective. |
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07-23-2011, 09:30 PM | #38 | |
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07-23-2011, 09:35 PM | #39 |
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*** edit ***
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Life is Good! Last edited by CHOWDERHEAD; 07-23-2011 at 09:50 PM. Reason: I was unfair with my post |
07-23-2011, 09:37 PM | #40 |
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Life is Good! Last edited by CHOWDERHEAD; 07-23-2011 at 09:50 PM. Reason: I'm an idiot! |
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