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01-21-2020, 10:36 PM | #21 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,600
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This is what takes away from the different levels. It should be harder to advance upward. Keep more teams in Silver and below.
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01-22-2020, 05:09 AM | #22 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 1,815
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A "power ranking" used for promotion, derived from a combination of factors - including PP earned - would definitely level things out. Add decent rewards for winning a series, but have the impact of the playoffs on the power ranking quite low. To the point where a team doesn't necessarily get promoted even if it wins a series!
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01-22-2020, 08:22 AM | #23 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11,807
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This means absolute squid. Diamond Leagues could promote ten teams to Perfect and wouldn't matter a thing if only the relegations from Perfect would match that number...
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Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here. |
01-22-2020, 08:53 AM | #24 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,152
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We can talk forever about the best way to balance the tiers and there does need to be a level above perfect for the truly elite teams finishing with 120 wins every season (I realize some are self-selecting into a "whale" league already)
None of it matters though if the reward structure continues to provide incentive to avoid promotion. |
01-22-2020, 10:48 AM | #25 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 637
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No joke, but they're both demoting 4. My point is the older product is doing it more right than the newer...
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01-22-2020, 12:13 PM | #26 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,074
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The problem is not the Rewards structure. Giving more points to the upper levels will simply make the teams on top even stronger than they already are in comparison with the rest of the organization. Personally I'm tired of seeing teams in perfect 50 games out of first.
The problem is the lack of adherence to the pyramid structure. 1) The Pyramid MUST be maintained 2) Fewer teams should move up and down at the top of the pyramid than at the bottom I've attached a table as an example of how it should work. I've laid out the 6 levels assuming 210 teams and 20% of the teams at each level moving up and down. The math is a bit complex but explained below. Perfect Level, Relegate 2 teams to Diamond Gain 2 teams from Diamond Promotion Net = -2, +2 Diamond Level, Relegate 4 teams to Gold Gain 2 teams from Perfect Relegation Loses 2 teams to Perfect through Promotion Gain 4 teams from Gold Promotion Net = -6, +6 Gold Level, Relegate 6 teams to Silver Gain 4 teams from Diamond Relegation Loses 4 teams to Diamond through Promotion Gain 6 teams from Silver Promotion Net = -10, +10 Silver Level, Relegate 8 teams to Bronze Gain 6 teams from Gold Relegation Lose 6 teams to Gold through Promotion Gain 8 teams from Bronze Promotion Net = -14, +14 Bronze Level, Relegate 10 teams to Iron Gain 8 teams from Silver Relegation Lose 8 teams to Silver through Promotion Gain 10 teams from Bronze Promotion Net = -18, +18 Iron Level, Gain 10 teams from Bronze Relegation Lose 10 team to Bronze through Promotion Net = -10, +10 Looking at the table; Column 1 is the original team count Column 2 are the teams relegated Column 3 is where those teams go Column 4 is the team count per level after relegations Column 5 are the teams promoted Column 6 is where those teams go Column 7 is the final team count per level (the pyramid is retained) In my opinion, this would help considerably in putting only the best teams at the top. |
01-22-2020, 12:48 PM | #27 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,152
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the lack of pyramid and the reward structure are a problem. the optimal way to play should not be to stay at iron as long as possible
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01-22-2020, 02:12 PM | #28 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 155
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To me, this is all easily resolved with a criteria of "X" PL Championships required to move up to a final tier.
This leaves it open to F2P teams who have the time and effort to compete against whales, while making the top end competition, highly competitive. It also gives non-whalers an achievement to strive for and metric to meet to know they'll be able to compete consistently at the top tier once they've reached it. I'd personally make this final tier, non-demoteable, but include a full reset option. Thus eliminating tanking in the final tier. But you could also do this with relegation. You'd just need a criteria for re-entry, like another PL championship. "X" can easily be determined based on OOTP 20 and the number of multi championship owners vs everyone else. Lastly, let me add that this is baseball. Pyramids are fine and dandy, but teams don't move up or down in baseball based on wins/losses etc (that's bloody soccer). You're sanctioned as a MLB team when the league allows it, indicating you have the proper resources to establish and maintain a competitive franchise. So honestly, all the pyramid should be for in a sim is for the Devs pockets and to separate out who is the cream of the crop, so that they can all play each other. If you have too many AAA teams playing MLB teams, you should make better criteria for a final tier. (As an aside, is there a reason we can't rename these tiers to rookie, A, AA, AAA, and MLB? Would be way more thematic).
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01-22-2020, 02:45 PM | #29 |
Hall Of Famer
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When we add another intervening tier, we'll get the same arguments being made about 2 weeks later. It never ends. There is no 'Championship Socialism' folks...and there never will be. Let's move along to more productive topics...like, how much drive space do any of you devote to OOTP, not including the app? I'm at 41GB right now, having just cleaned out a bunch of old saves. 30 of that is 3d stadiums though...
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“What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. |
01-22-2020, 03:43 PM | #30 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,074
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Quote:
Well, if limits to tanking were programmed into the coding, we wouldn't have to change the rewards - nor would we have to play Cops. |
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01-22-2020, 03:57 PM | #31 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Frankenthal, Germany
Posts: 2,993
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Basically, when my team reached the Perfect League level most of the fun was gone.
I check every few days looking if there are enough points to buy a pack, I somehow managed to slip into the play-offs a few times as a wild-card team ... but that's it. Playing against teams that win 140+ games on the Perfect League level simply is no fun at all.
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I'm going to have to meet my Maker some day. And if He asks me why I didn't let this boy play, and I say it's because he's black, that might not be a satisfactory answer. Happy Chandler, 1947 |
01-22-2020, 03:58 PM | #32 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,152
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I definitely agree that mechanics within the game are far superior to internet police looking into everyone. That is one way to fix the problem within a season at least, but there is still the fact that most people are encouraged to sandbag until they get bored with it. If you are going to buy a ton of points then it doesn't matter and you can move up right away, but the only other people doing it are ones who don't know any better and then quickly find themselves in perfect team purgatory.
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01-22-2020, 05:25 PM | #33 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 155
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I think that's why a reset option is a potentially good idea, esp if the upper tiers are non-relegated...picking the team out with all iron cards to "tank" is easy to spot and no longer has any incentive.
On a reset, Playoff/Championship wiped, cards wiped. Cards are sold back at the current, historical (or something) average, and the owner can rebuild a team from there starting over in the player pool like any new team. Another option is scaling achievements upward as you climb up tiers, so that there is no incentive to stay in the lower tier like Iron. If they like the current metrics, just adjust iron and bronze to be X% lower in rewards compared to current.
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01-22-2020, 10:44 PM | #34 |
OOTP Developments
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Miramichi, NB, Canada
Posts: 1,021
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We cannot use the MILB equivalents for Perfect Team levels
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01-22-2020, 10:51 PM | #35 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,272
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I'd just like to say it's cool that one of the worst OP's in recent memory has led to some actual useful discussion between the community and OOTP. Kinda like the new growth after a forest fire.
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01-23-2020, 11:16 AM | #36 |
Hall Of Famer
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I see you facing west, but your compliment came from the south.
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“What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. |
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