Official Rolen/Cubby Roster Thread

[Dr. P.R. Park III]

Originally Posted by Waninski

When I say he wasn't a liberal, I mean to say he certainly was no Democrat. He was certainly a libertarian. In "Kingdom of Fear", he openly endorsed Ralph Nader, of the Green Party.

This is true, and yes, I do have that book. But if he were to be involved with anything, it would be sports (aka: baseball). You make it sound like you know him as if you were the shotgun that killed him. Enjoy the free rosters, bud.

[Dr. P.R. Park III]

Originally Posted by Spearhead

Man, this guy Waninski sure is self-righteous, judgemental and unappreciative. If he has any friends at all they're probably just like him 'cause no one else would be able to put up with such a pompous ass.

I do believe they're called "elitists".

[dashby]

This may make some people think ill of me, but what the heck, some do anyway: The reason I'm not doing Totalminors this year is because when Markus/Marc and I talked about it, I told them the only way I'd do it again was if I was paid. SI didn't want to pay, and that is absolutely their call and one they had every right to make (and this is in NO way a criticism of them for that, so please don't take it as such). But a current-day roster has day-to-day urgency from users, it has deadlines in the user's mind if no one else's.

I don't believe any of the ppl you mentioned in this comment could legally pay you to work on MLB rosters. Believe me, there are probably many talented ppl that would be willing to jump on these rosters and invest the time neccessary to create some good ones if there was a salary involved.

In fact, I'm thinking they would probably just as soon have someone in the company do it as you if they were going to offer a contract. I think the fact of the matter is SI doesn't want to invest in a license in order to legally use MLB rosters. That is really too bad because it will eventually bring the downfall of this game. I think I speak for most of the folks out here, w/o real-life player rosters this game (despite it's wonderful design) is not fun. There are, I'm sure, ppl that would still play w/o MLB players but, they are the exception.

I personally would be willing to pay $5 or $10 more for the game if it was packaged with the current year rosters. On the other hand, if future releases do NOT have MLB rosters or, no one competent is willing to spend the time to release them some short time later....I'm through with OOTP. There are other options.

[CubbyFan23]

Originally Posted by dashby

I don't believe any of the ppl you mentioned in this comment could legally pay you to work on MLB rosters. Believe me, there are probably many talented ppl that would be willing to jump on these rosters and invest the time neccessary to create some good ones if there was a salary involved.

In fact, I'm thinking they would probably just as soon have someone in the company do it as you if they were going to offer a contract. I think the fact of the matter is SI doesn't want to invest in a license in order to legally use MLB rosters. That is really too bad because it will eventually bring the downfall of this game. I think I speak for most of the folks out here, w/o real-life player rosters this game (despite it's wonderful design) is not fun. There are, I'm sure, ppl that would still play w/o MLB players but, they are the exception.

I personally would be willing to pay $5 or $10 more for the game if it was packaged with the current year rosters. On the other hand, if future releases do NOT have MLB rosters or, no one competent is willing to spend the time to release them some short time later....I'm through with OOTP. There are other options.

The good news is that this year I had to re-rate virtually every player in the majors and minors. I'm hoping that I can get Markus to just put me together a roster file combining this year's ratings with 2006 statistics that are imported from Lehman in Feburary sometime so that all I have to do is some tweaks at the MLB level and put in new salaries that have been signed in the past year.

(if this isn't the case there's no way I'm re-doing all of this though)

But hopefully with that as the way things I'm hoping will be handled, you will no doubt have an opening day version next year that is VERY complete. This year things were just so new with salary structures, countries of origin, new ratings, etc, etc, etc that we found another new thing to handle at every step of the way.

Hopefully that makes sense and at least eases some concerns about next year's game.

[dashby]

Hopefully that makes sense and at least eases some concerns about next year's game.

Makes me feel much better. I just feel this game is totally incomplete w/o MLB rosters.

If SI ever does decide to bite the bullet and put up for a MLB license I think they could do worse than contracting Cubbyfan to design them.

[CubbyFan23]

I feel the same way. I know there is people who love fictional leagues (and I'm not knocking them) but it was just something I could never get into. I can understand the frustration about not being able to have them, certainly.

Thanks for the plug too. It's something I would be interested in, but regardless, I'll be doing these either way every year, I hope. It would be nice to have an "official" set come out of the box with the game, however.

I think part of the problem is with me being so obsessive compulsive. I could release rosters that were very inaccurate, but it drives me up the wall to see for instance, a guy who should be a speedy CF, be rated in the minors as a power hitting LF. I know some people want me to just release one with top prospects done, but I figure if I'm going to port these over to the '07 game, I might as well put together the most accurate rosters we've ever had here while I'm at it!

[Erich Ingram]

Originally Posted by CubbyFan23

I know, I've tried to a majority of the time, but it's just kind of a straw breaking the camel's back, it's hard to ignore personal insults for me at least. Obviously I'm not going to let one idiot ruin the rosters for you guys, I'll be okay. I'm going to take your advice, and I won't be commenting on anything not actual roster set related, and would suggest you guys stop "feeding the trolls" as well.

Now you see why I don't post very often in this thread anymore. Not worth screaming back and forth with people that don't care about what happens in your life and only want the rosters done to make their life better.

Frankly I have already apologized to those that matter (Marc & Markus)for the fact that the roster file is not done as they were the ones hoping to see it out there to make the masses happy. I have also apologized to the masses for not having it done.

I don't respond to the complaints as it isn't worth the time that I could be spending doing a rating change or anything else for that matter. I try to leave the do it yourself messages alone because they don't help either. I appreciate the people who give constructive criticism or quality thought out suggestions(mainly in the other thread), and those who have thanked us for the work we have done.

I find it amazing that in 1600+ posts there are only probably less than a 100 that have any value with regard to bringing information to those who want it as to where the file is and what is going on with it. This is a shame, but also part of the reason why I was very quiet about the file even though I was working on it.

Now lets take a look at this, Markus had two years to create the game, with it being his job, and those of us creating a file were expected to use a totally new system and create a roster file that was immensely deeper within two-four months, not including our jobs and families. And that is not a comment on Markus but if he spent two years creating this program, then I do think there are going to be a lot of things that are different from before. Now the rosters this year are many many more players than before and you have to have them all unlike the previous iterations or else the game won't run. So with that being said it was more time consuming than other files have been.

Now while the offers to assist are very nice and appreciated, it is not that easy to have multiple people working on the same file. Cubby and I have found that to be the case as there were times that I would expect him to send me the file and times he would expect me to do so and we would miss each other and then one of us would be without the ability to work on the file when we had time and the other was sleeping or working. Now this is an issue because if one had been working on it then there would be changes made that would be needed for the other one to work on it so there would not be duplication of work and lost work. And while Cubby hasn't said anything here complaining about it, but he has been doing the lionshare of the work on rerating the minors because I have had other issues arise in my life that have taken a lot of my time and he very easily could be complaining to all of you about how much time he has spent on it and how little I have lately. Now another issue that you run into with multiple people on the file is that you will run into differing opinions and styles with regards to rating of players.

The hard part in all of this is that we all want this file to be out there, but....we want it done right. Now in previous years the file at the beginning has been done by an individual that would work on it while testing the game, this year it was intended to be done that way as well and I was the one who was doing it and I let everyone down with getting it in time, granted in previous years it was majors and top prospects that were most important to have been done at the day of release not down to rookie ball but that is not the point. I accept the blame for it. I will say that I have learned a great deal about the errors that I made and still continue to do so and will also say that what you see in the editor is much improved from the first editor that I used when I started work on the file, and much of that is due to the issues that I would run into and ask to have certain things created to make life easier. Now fortunately I have learned from my mistakes and have been able to start making inroads into ways to do things quicker and in better way. Now I am sure that doesn't mean a hill of beans to many people out there all they want is the roster file. Well you know what so do I. I would like to be able to sit down at my computer and boot up the game and play a few games rather than go through websites and spreadsheets trying to fix and tweak things so that I can make sure that player A has the right GAP rating and player B has the exact right Stuff rating or to make sure that pitchers are hitting too well.

Now as for the complaints I can take them or leave them it doesn't bother me, this is a game, the rosters are something that I have done for 5 years for fun. It gained me a great deal of noteriety on this board when I released my first set in 2001 and has brought a lot of joy to many people and for that I am happy. The anger and bitterness that I see this year, I find disturbing and sad, this is a game and to see Cubby's post earlier about quitting is unfortunate. This is something that he is doing for people that he doesn't have to do but is doing so because he enjoys doing and to have people make it so he doesn't want to do it anymore is sad. I took a couple of years off from making files before because I was tired of it, came back this year because I really liked what I saw in the way the game was going to be done and because I wanted to bring back the fire that was there with OOTP3 & 4. OOTP 5 & 6-6.5 I have both beta tested and played, primarily in the online world and the fictional versions as I wasn't as enthralled with using files that weren't my work and didn't want to put the time into making a file. Now I know Gregg put out a great file for OOTP5 from all accounts on the board, but with 5 I was mostly into the online leagues so I didn't play much in the way of solo. But I guess what I am trying to get to here is that to make a modder quit is never good for the community. Like him or not, the modders are providing services to the game that either are not or can not be offered by Markus, this is something that should not be taken lightly and should not be frittered away just because people are frustrated that they can't play the game the way they want to.

I started this thread so that people would have a place to see where the rosters were at, yes I could have been more forthcoming about the pace and place that the rosters were in. I did not expect them to be as difficult this year as they have been. This thread was not intended to be a 1600+ post thread when started, the other thread was.

So, I will say it one more time, Marc and Markus I apologize for not having the file done to coincide with the release of the game. I wanted to and did not, I should have asked for help earlier on and not shunned it away. Cubby I apologize to you for accepting your request to help with the file, because of that you have had to endure all this harrassment, had I said no, you could have probably snuck under the radar and I would have taken the heat alone on this. And finally to the masses out there I apologize to you for not having the done yet so that you can play your game to it's fullest.

This post is not me quitting, just putting out my thoughts on the way things are going on this board. I feel everyone has their opinion and has the right to share it, just realize I am not going to get all up in arms and worry about what people are saying when it is just negativity. I do understand that people want the roster file and feel their pain but lets save the arguing for something of value and not whether or not this is done yet. And please please please no more posts telling people make themselves, all that does is add more emails to my inbox stating that people have added posts. It doesn't add anything to the conversation and just annoys the people that it is directed at leading to more complaints. I do appreciate those who post them in that they are showing support but for the future lets just keep that as understood.

I hope I have not offended anyone and that you realize I do enjoy doing the roster work and do feel sorry that I have let so many down.

Thank you
Erich

[Magus978]

Well said Erich. This thread has seemingly become a trollfest. I agree with every word you said.

Take your time with the rosters. I, as well as all the non-trolls who come into this thread, know that you and Cubbyfan will bring us a great roster set

[battists]

Closing this, per Erich's request.