Using the Rule V draft to draft a pitcher and convert him to a fielder. Any chance of this working?

MrDov · 08-29-2016, 04:52 PM

I'm in the process of a rebuild, maybe a season or two from making a playoff push. I have an open 40-man spot after a light free agency (have the pieces in my organization, just waiting for their growth) and no one else in the Rule V draft catches my eye. Just saying all this to show I feel like there's no opportunity cost in making this bizarre pick.

With all that being said, is there any chance he actually develops into an even half-decent offensive player? Seems like he has no natural defensive home, but will be fringy at a couple spots. Should note he's 24 years old.

Griever20 · 08-29-2016, 05:09 PM

It could work yes. He will start learning a defensive position once he starts playing there, for example second base or third base.

You should change his position to that I guess.

As for the batting ratings, they should improve once he gets a bunch of AB's.

I've never done this to a Rule V draftee, just to a couple of relievers that actually had decent batting ratings out of the First Year Player draft.

The only reason why this could fail is that at age 24, thinks have to move quickly for him, development usually slows down a bit after he is 25, at least that is something I observed often times.

ShaneCarson · 08-29-2016, 05:55 PM

As is, he's already a league average bat with his current ratings. If you have a hole at second base, I'd give it a shot. Nothing to lose and if he hits those 60 and 55 potentials, he could be quite valuable.

endgame · 08-29-2016, 06:11 PM

A quick Google search turned up Ariel Ovando. He's a converted position player that produced good stats in the Rookie League, but unless I'm misreading Baseball-Reference info on him, youth- as another poster mentioned -was on his side at 20 or so when converted. Granted it was the other way, but the younger the development starts, I'd have to agree, the better.

Questdog · 08-29-2016, 06:21 PM

Rick Ankiel did it not too long ago and he was not young.....I always thought Dontrelle Willis should have given it a shot when his career went down the toilet. He had an awesome swing.

r0nster · 08-29-2016, 08:24 PM

I agree with Dog..... I think Jose Fernandez could do the same thing if his pitching goes in toilet too ... who knows for anything can happen

UDSiev91 · 08-30-2016, 12:31 PM

It worked for me. Did due diligence in Rule V and found this RP with huge potential as a hitter. He went from an average AA guy to being ROY and MVP in his first year as a batter. I played him mostly at DH and developed him into a '30' 1B for flexibility.

ThePretender · 08-30-2016, 12:40 PM

I'd suffer through his initial defensive struggles and gamble. You're rebuilding so it's the right move to make.

jparker2112 · 08-30-2016, 01:26 PM

Do you use a DH? Hed be best suited for that

JohnHoward · 08-30-2016, 06:12 PM

Didn't Mychal Givens start out as a SS? He was a pitcher too in high school though, so that may not be a true "conversion".

Curve Ball Dave · 08-30-2016, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Rick Ankiel did it not too long ago and he was not young.....I always thought Dontrelle Willis should have given it a shot when his career went down the toilet. He had an awesome swing.

If Travis Wood ever gets the yips and can't find home plate anymore, he has a future as a position player.

MrDov · 08-31-2016, 03:04 PM

Yeah I'm going for it and seeing if he turns into anything. In spring training I gave him time at 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF. Just trying to give him as many options to get playing time as possible. Already up to a 25 fielding rating at 2B and LF which is nice cause I figure those are his two likeliest ways to get playing time. Through his first 29 spring training PAs he slashed .391/.481/.522 and I felt like a genius. But after that hot start, in his final 24 PAs he slashed .125/.125/.167. He still did well enough in spring training to legitimately earn a roster spot and didn't make the opening day roster just due to the rule V draft rules.

injury log · 08-31-2016, 05:29 PM

There are dozens of H/P or P/H conversions in real life. These are just off the top of my head, all big leaguers or at least 40-man guys, or otherwise notable players (if you look at pure minor leaguers, there are tons more) :

Kenley Jansen C to RP
Mychal Givens SS to RP
Sean Doolittle 1B to RP
Sergio Santos SS to RP
Chris Hatcher C to RP
Pedro Baez 3B to RP
Matt West 3B to RP
Jordan Schafer CF to RP
Williams Jerez RF to RP
James Jones CF to RP
Blake Smith RF to RP
Junior Guerra C to SP
Casey Kelly SS to SP
Jason Lane OF to SP
Dan Johnson 1B to knuckleballing SP

the other way is not as common:
Adam Loewen SP to OF to RP
Rick Ankiel SP to OF
Aaron Miller SP to OF (LAD supp-first rounder, never made MLB)
Micah Owings SP to 1B/OF/DH to P
Stetson Allie SP to 1B
Kyle Drabek SP to SS

I think all of those guys converted during their pro career, might be one or two who converted before they started playing in the minors but I'm not going to check.

BIG17EASY · 08-31-2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDov

Yeah I'm going for it and seeing if he turns into anything. In spring training I gave him time at 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF. Just trying to give him as many options to get playing time as possible. Already up to a 25 fielding rating at 2B and LF which is nice cause I figure those are his two likeliest ways to get playing time. Through his first 29 spring training PAs he slashed .391/.481/.522 and I felt like a genius. But after that hot start, in his final 24 PAs he slashed .125/.125/.167. He still did well enough in spring training to legitimately earn a roster spot and didn't make the opening day roster just due to the rule V draft rules.

Please keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this turns out, particularly since there is no real-life comparison. All of the posts by other people apparently missed the important fact that you were taking the guy in the Rule 5 draft, so he has to make the change in the major leagues.

Kent814 · 08-31-2016, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

There are dozens of H/P or P/H conversions in real life. These are just off the top of my head, all big leaguers or at least 40-man guys, or otherwise notable players (if you look at pure minor leaguers, there are tons more) :

Kenley Jansen C to RP
Mychal Givens SS to RP
Sean Doolittle 1B to RP
Sergio Santos SS to RP
Chris Hatcher C to RP
Pedro Baez 3B to RP
Matt West 3B to RP
Jordan Schafer CF to RP
Williams Jerez RF to RP
James Jones CF to RP
Blake Smith RF to RP
Junior Guerra C to SP
Casey Kelly SS to SP
Jason Lane OF to SP
Dan Johnson 1B to knuckleballing SP

the other way is not as common:
Adam Loewen SP to OF to RP
Rick Ankiel SP to OF
Aaron Miller SP to OF (LAD supp-first rounder, never made MLB)
Micah Owings SP to 1B/OF/DH to P
Stetson Allie SP to 1B
Kyle Drabek SP to SS

I think all of those guys converted during their pro career, might be one or two who converted before they started playing in the minors but I'm not going to check.

Dont forget matt bush

injury log · 08-31-2016, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kent814

Dont forget matt bush

Yeah he's another. I was just going by memory, so I'm sure I missed a lot of guys, it wasn't supposed to be a complete list.

MrDov · 09-02-2016, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Please keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this turns out, particularly since there is no real-life comparison. All of the posts by other people apparently missed the important fact that you were taking the guy in the Rule 5 draft, so he has to make the change in the major leagues.

Currently halfway through June. Eaton hasn't been great. In 71 PAs he's hitting .213/.257/.344 with a WAR of -0.6. However, he still isn't the worst IF currently on the roster and I have little to no IF depth in the high minors so Eaton's roster spot is pretty safe even with the poor play. I play as a GM and let the manager control lineups and everything during games. He's been mostly used to pinch hit late in games then will stay in on defense, outside of a handful of times I forced a start to give a struggling starter some rest. However, just had an absolute rash of injuries in the last week, losing my starting 2B, DH, and that DHs replacement. So now begins the Eaton as starting DH experience.

MrDov · 09-18-2016, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Please keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this turns out, particularly since there is no real-life comparison. All of the posts by other people apparently missed the important fact that you were taking the guy in the Rule 5 draft, so he has to make the change in the major leagues.

Final update: in 39 games (21 starts) and 100 plate appearances for me, he slashed .216/.263/.352 which is an OPS+ of 68 and good for -0.7 WAR. I had injured guys come back and a SS prospect develop quicker than expected so Eaton was no longer needed. I ended up trading him away to the Cardinals for a backup catcher to stash at AAA. Cardinals kept him for a month during which he got 19 PAs and hit .278/.316/.556 (OPS+ of 140) but -0.0 WAR due to that lousy defense. They released him and returned him back to his original team at the end of July. They kept him as a fielder and he's been with their AAA team for almost a calendar year now. Above league average hitter and his 2B and LF ratings are now both up to 30 but his fielding stats at AAA are pretty bad.

08-29-2016, 04:52 PM	#1
MrDov Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 275	Using the Rule V draft to draft a pitcher and convert him to a fielder. Any chance of this working? I'm in the process of a rebuild, maybe a season or two from making a playoff push. I have an open 40-man spot after a light free agency (have the pieces in my organization, just waiting for their growth) and no one else in the Rule V draft catches my eye. Just saying all this to show I feel like there's no opportunity cost in making this bizarre pick. With all that being said, is there any chance he actually develops into an even half-decent offensive player? Seems like he has no natural defensive home, but will be fringy at a couple spots. Should note he's 24 years old. Attached Images Last edited by MrDov; 08-29-2016 at 04:55 PM.

08-29-2016, 05:09 PM	#2
Griever20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 3,373	It could work yes. He will start learning a defensive position once he starts playing there, for example second base or third base. You should change his position to that I guess. As for the batting ratings, they should improve once he gets a bunch of AB's. I've never done this to a Rule V draftee, just to a couple of relievers that actually had decent batting ratings out of the First Year Player draft. The only reason why this could fail is that at age 24, thinks have to move quickly for him, development usually slows down a bit after he is 25, at least that is something I observed often times. __________________ MLB 2012 - Mariner Madness(in 2014/15 offseason!) MLB 2019 - Texas Rangers - A Challenge Mode Dynasty(died together with old PC) MLB 2015 - Being the Brewmaster(manger missing) MLB 2013: The Blue Jays That Never Were(concluded) MLB 2014 I waited till Kevin Towers got fired dynasty!(concluded)

08-29-2016, 06:11 PM	#4
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,843	A quick Google search turned up Ariel Ovando. He's a converted position player that produced good stats in the Rookie League, but unless I'm misreading Baseball-Reference info on him, youth- as another poster mentioned -was on his side at 20 or so when converted. Granted it was the other way, but the younger the development starts, I'd have to agree, the better. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

08-30-2016, 12:31 PM	#7
UDSiev91 Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 10	It worked for me. Did due diligence in Rule V and found this RP with huge potential as a hitter. He went from an average AA guy to being ROY and MVP in his first year as a batter. I played him mostly at DH and developed him into a '30' 1B for flexibility. Attached Images

08-29-2016, 05:55 PM	#3
ShaneCarson All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 728	As is, he's already a league average bat with his current ratings. If you have a hole at second base, I'd give it a shot. Nothing to lose and if he hits those 60 and 55 potentials, he could be quite valuable.

08-29-2016, 06:21 PM	#5
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	Rick Ankiel did it not too long ago and he was not young.....I always thought Dontrelle Willis should have given it a shot when his career went down the toilet. He had an awesome swing.

08-29-2016, 08:24 PM	#6
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	I agree with Dog..... I think Jose Fernandez could do the same thing if his pitching goes in toilet too ... who knows for anything can happen

08-30-2016, 12:40 PM	#8
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,303	I'd suffer through his initial defensive struggles and gamble. You're rebuilding so it's the right move to make.

08-30-2016, 01:26 PM	#9
jparker2112 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Denver CO Posts: 800 Blog Entries: 1	Do you use a DH? Hed be best suited for that

08-30-2016, 06:12 PM	#10
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	Didn't Mychal Givens start out as a SS? He was a pitcher too in high school though, so that may not be a true "conversion".

08-31-2016, 03:04 PM	#12
MrDov Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 275	Yeah I'm going for it and seeing if he turns into anything. In spring training I gave him time at 1B, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF. Just trying to give him as many options to get playing time as possible. Already up to a 25 fielding rating at 2B and LF which is nice cause I figure those are his two likeliest ways to get playing time. Through his first 29 spring training PAs he slashed .391/.481/.522 and I felt like a genius. But after that hot start, in his final 24 PAs he slashed .125/.125/.167. He still did well enough in spring training to legitimately earn a roster spot and didn't make the opening day roster just due to the rule V draft rules.

08-31-2016, 05:29 PM	#13
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	There are dozens of H/P or P/H conversions in real life. These are just off the top of my head, all big leaguers or at least 40-man guys, or otherwise notable players (if you look at pure minor leaguers, there are tons more) : Kenley Jansen C to RP Mychal Givens SS to RP Sean Doolittle 1B to RP Sergio Santos SS to RP Chris Hatcher C to RP Pedro Baez 3B to RP Matt West 3B to RP Jordan Schafer CF to RP Williams Jerez RF to RP James Jones CF to RP Blake Smith RF to RP Junior Guerra C to SP Casey Kelly SS to SP Jason Lane OF to SP Dan Johnson 1B to knuckleballing SP the other way is not as common: Adam Loewen SP to OF to RP Rick Ankiel SP to OF Aaron Miller SP to OF (LAD supp-first rounder, never made MLB) Micah Owings SP to 1B/OF/DH to P Stetson Allie SP to 1B Kyle Drabek SP to SS I think all of those guys converted during their pro career, might be one or two who converted before they started playing in the minors but I'm not going to check.