OOTP 17 still falls far short

[CubsManager]

I've played this latest version long enough to, once again, weigh in on the franchise. Though I certainly appreciate the game, the vast amount of effort put into it, and I generally enjoy playing it, I continually lament the fact that, but for a few reasonable tweaks, it could be so much better.

Please allow me to explain:

1. Until you can trade for a player and make his current team eat some of his salary, it's not a baseball game. And getting a whole bunch of cash from the trading team (if they actually have it) in a lump sum is not a good work around. The White Sox trade for James Shields is a perfect example of what I speak.

2. The AI offered trades are terrible! In the 12 seasons of OOTP I've played, the AI has offered my teams at least 250 trades (average trade setting). I've only taken them up on it one time. This is something that was far better in the earlier OOTP versions and has continually gotten worse. The AI will offer you a 2 star players and 1.5 star minor leaguer for your two best player PLUS CASH. That doesn't work for me.

3. This is a bug. If you search for a player with a custom filter like last name, unless you clear it, that filter also then applies to waiver and Rule 5 lists. It took me a long time to figure that one out and It may apply to other lists, but I haven't gone any further with it.

4. It's way too easy to create a winning team against the AI. The second I take over the 2016 Cubs I dump Lester, Lackey, Montero, Heyward, Hammel, and Zobrist by trading them for emerging prospects or reasonable rookies. Sure! You take the fan interest hit, but as soon as you keeping winning it doesn't last very long. My last Cubs team won 128 games with the lowest MLB payroll following this taking a step down from marquee players strategy. In real life, those kind of scorched earth moves would absolutely destroy the team chemistry as well as fan interest. I'm sure the answer is to play in a live league, but I don't have that kind of time and I generally don't like online people.

5. The trade deadline is meaningless in OOTP 17. Look at the recent MLB frenzy that occurred between 7/31 and 8/1. It's one of the best times in baseball! OOTP needs to mirror rebuilding teams sloughing off talent to the in-contention wild card teams looking for a quick fix. What Brian Cashman did last week is bleepin' amazing. Meanwhile, I get OOTP .350 teams holding onto their talent like Donald Trump clings to a tweet.

6. Pitchouts are even more worthless than they were before. This really needs to be fixed.

7. Stealing bases has gotten wayyyyyy too difficult. When Billy Hamilton wants to steal a base, he doesn't bleepin' wait 8 bleepin' pitches for the perfect bleepin' jump. Perhaps this is intended to mirror the fact that the stolen base has fallen out of favor with most MLB managers, but isn't the whole OOTP point to think outside the managerial box?

8. This is my biggest complaint! Talent always goes down, but it never goes up! Earlier OOTP versions actually had this right, but as we've progressed it's gotten far worse. Take Jake Arietta. When he was with Baltimore, he was a 2.5 star pitcher max! But he got it together with the Cubs and now he's a 5 star Cy Young award winner. In OOTP, unless you start out with a 5 star potential, you'll never be a 5 star player. On the other hand, players go from 5 stars down to 2.5 stars all the time. And Mr. Arietta ain't nearly the only example.

9. You can't take a chance on emerging players by signing them to earily long-term contracts. The Cubs did this with Anthony Rizzo, Starlin Castro, and Jorge Soler, and it's a tactic I prefer to use, but nope! Those players hold out until the end of arbitration eligibility and ask for outrageous salaries.

10. You can no longer take a chance on injured free agents because they'll only sign for a year. I'd be happy to take a risk and sign them for 3 to 4 years, it doesn't happen! They want you to pay them for doing nothing for a year and then the bolt to free agency when they heal.

11. The AI is still too aggressive when a team is down 8 to 0. C'mon! This one is easy. No base stealing or taking the extra base if you're down by 5 runs or more.

That's it! I'm done with this version and I'll wait till 2018.

[philthepat]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

8. This is my biggest complaint! Talent always goes down, but it never goes up! Earlier OOTP versions actually had this right, but as we've progressed it's gotten far worse. Take Jake Arietta. When he was with Baltimore, he was a 2.5 star pitcher max! But he got it together with the Cubs and now he's a 5 star Cy Young award winner. In OOTP, unless you start out with a 5 star potential, you'll never be a 5 star player. On the other hand, players go from 5 stars down to 2.5 stars all the time. And Mr. Arietta ain't nearly the only example.

9. You can't take a chance on emerging players by signing them to earily long-term contracts. The Cubs did this with Anthony Rizzo, Starlin Castro, and Jorge Soler, and it's a tactic I prefer to use, but nope! Those players hold out until the end of arbitration eligibility and ask for outrageous salaries.

I can honestly say neither of these things is true. I've had players potential increase many, many times. Maybe check your settings?

I've also signed several younger players to 'team friendly' early deals similar to real life.

[CubsManager]

Phil,

I have NEVER had a 2.5 star potential player go to 5 stars - EVER - and I don't believe you have either. And my settings in that regard are the OOTP defaults. Same thing goes for number 9. It's NEVER happened.

[Coxmeatsandwich]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Phil,

I have NEVER had a 2.5 star potential player go to 5 stars - EVER - and I don't believe you have either. And my settings in that regard are the OOTP defaults. Same thing goes for number 9. It's NEVER happened.

Well here is proof that I have had a player go up in potential...but yea, you're right...it NEVER happens.

[CubsManager]

That isn't proof! That's just you flapping your gums. Please try again.

[RchW]

I haven't seen a pitch out in RL baseball in 6-10 years.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

That isn't proof! That's just you flapping your gums. Please try again.

Wow, ha ha ha ha ha.......

I guess it would be a waste of my time to post screen shots too of players I have where potential has gone up?

[CubsManager]

RchW,

Apparently you don't have Billy Hamilton in your division!

[Coxmeatsandwich]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

That isn't proof! That's just you flapping your gums. Please try again.

Welp, Troll detected. Glad I didn't spend more than one or two minutes of my time on this.

[Padreman]

Sadly this just an awful post

[CD360]

1: A valid point but saying it isn't a baseball game unless you include it is an exaggeration. The reason it hasn't been added is because it would be extremely hard to put into the game since predicting the amount of cash you'll have in 5 years probably wouldn't be very accurate.

2: They always have been but there's a massive improvement this season. This year each gm has their own personality and each team is better at defining their interests. This isn't really a complaint with this version as much as it is the entire series.

3: I'd recccomend you report that in the bug forum.

4: Change your trading settings and you'll get more realistic trades. The default settings are easy so most people adjust them.

5: The AI makes trades throughout the season instead of waiting until the last minute. Not realistic but doesn't need to be fixed until trading becomes better.

6: I only manage a few of my games so I can't speak on this but pitchouts in general aren't very useful.

7: Isn't there a force steal for this very reason? Doesn't seem like an issue.

8: This seems more like a small sample size issue to me. If eseen plenty of 20th rounders become all stars and a random jump in a players quality at age 30. Sometimes you'll get an Arrieta, Bautista or Pomeranz but they're so rare that you shouldn't expect them.

9: I've done this plenty of times. You might just be trying to sign the wrong guys but this does happen in real life. Bryce Harper and Kris Bryant are going to test free agency. Not every player is Mike Trout.

10: This happens IRL a lot. Players lost a lot of value after their injury so they're not willing to sell low on themselves. Makes perfect sense.

11: Doesn't really seem important. Might as well still try and win and if the manger thinks that an extra base is worth the risk he should do it.

[Caporegime]

Is it any coincidence that these types of posts almost always come from people with low post counts?

[CubsManager]

Dear CD,

Thank you for a finally cogent reply.

1. A huge part of baseball is for teams in the tank to trade away some salary. And they do it all the time so it has to be part of OOTP.

2. Sadly, we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think the AI offered trades have gotten much worse.

3. I will.

4. I have tried adjusting them to prevent this kind of thing, but then, when you do want to trade, especially at the trading deadline with rebuilding teams, it becomes even more unrealistic.

5. The trading deadline frenzy, brought on by having two wildcard teams, is a huge part of bringing parity to Major League Baseball. If that's not part of OOTP then it's not a true simulation. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not what it purports to be.

6. Trust me, they're useless. I manage 90 percent of my games.

7. Forced steal, again, is an abrogation of the game. Billy Hamilton, the bane of my Cubs existence, doesn't need to be forced to run. I get if for some of the 60 out of 80 runners, but the best best stealers don't need to get the perfect jump on the pitcher.

8. Even in the example above, a highly ranked player slipped a bit and came back. There are no Jake Ariettas in OOTP.

9. And clearly not every player is Rizzo, Castro, or Soler. But when the real life Cubs did it three times and, in 10 separate leagues, I can't do it once. That's a big enough sample size.

10. No it doesn't! Most injured players would rather get paid than not and this problem is something new with OOTP 17.

11. But it doesn't happen in real life so it shouldn't happen in OOTP.

[CubsManager]

[snip]

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Phil,

I have NEVER had a 2.5 star potential player go to 5 stars - EVER - and I don't believe you have either. And my settings in that regard are the OOTP defaults. Same thing goes for number 9. It's NEVER happened.

TCR. Talent Change Randomness. Default set to 100

It's wonderful. I have seen multiple 2-2.5 star players when drafted, turn into 5 star studs. It happens, whether you believe it or not.

I'd post a bunch of screenshots, but I'd just be "flapping my gums", right?

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Is it any coincidence that the folks with the highest post counts are people who live in their mother's basement and have nothing better to do?

You can do better than entry-level troll humor.

[CubsManager]

No! That's actually an answer. As I explained, I've been using the default settings in that regard.

[CubsManager]

I can do better, but I wouldn't want to waste it on this crowd.

[Habsfan18]

I'm a long-term simmer. I love studying league histories.

I've had 20th round picks turn into 10x all-stars. How would you explain that? Believe me, these players didn't have a career like that with the same potential they were drafted with.

[Tashtego]

Let's Go Mets!