OOTP 17 still falls far short - Page 2

BigRed75 · 08-05-2016, 08:10 PM

Re: the trade deadline - what you have reported has not been the case in my experience. This July, the AI did a metric assload of trades; so much so that I'm thinking about toning down the settings for next season. Then, in August, trading activity fell off a cliff.

The only thing, and it seems like this might be where you have your complaint, is that none of the trades actually occurred on July 31. It had the the standard news article about the trade deadline, then no actual trades. But from July 26 to July 30, players were swapping shirts like it was the end of a soccer match.

RchW · 08-05-2016, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Is it any coincidence that the folks with the highest post counts are people who live in their mother's basement and have nothing better to do?

Well I left mum's basement in 1979. Were you alive then?

darkcloud4579 · 08-05-2016, 09:30 PM

I will say this for the game, we're 17 years in and people are still making posts like this. Says something about it's longevity. Except, can you all remember the sorts of things we were asking for back then and how far this game has come? Crazy to think about!

OOTPinstripes · 08-05-2016, 10:13 PM

in all seriousness, I do think the game needs an option in team and individual player strategy to allow players to steal bases on their own.

In team settings, you can give all players the green light, give no players the green light, or defer to individual player settings.

There would also be individual settings, which would come into play if you've opted to defer to these.

For players that you haven't given the green light to, you can obvious still tell them to steal. For players you have given the green light to, the signal to steal becomes a signal to not steal.

rjl518 · 08-05-2016, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Is it any coincidence that the folks with the highest post counts are people who live in their mother's basement and have nothing better to do?

You must be stalking me!
How did HE find out???

BigRed75 · 08-05-2016, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

Is it any coincidence that the folks with the highest post counts are people who live in their mother's basement and have nothing better to do?

I'm sorry, but that's just out of line. Rich stated two actual facts: you complained about the game, and you have a low post count. You, on the other hand, countered with one fact (the high post count) and one wild supposition.

Rich can be irascible at times, and lord knows we've disagreed strongly at times, but I will defend him and his opinions.

One of the great things about this board is the lack of ad hominem attacks. That's just not on. Dissent is accepted, insults are not. If that doesn't suit you, I suggest you go someplace else. For example, there's a OOTP subforum on Reddit...

wsenkow · 08-06-2016, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

9. You can't take a chance on emerging players by signing them to earily long-term contracts. The Cubs did this with Anthony Rizzo, Starlin Castro, and Jorge Soler, and it's a tactic I prefer to use, but nope! Those players hold out until the end of arbitration eligibility and ask for outrageous salaries.

Perhaps you have things backwards. It could be argued that the development team at OOTP could have learned from the experiences of those players you mention and fixed THEIR mistake. That would show just how far advanced OOTP 17 is.

If you are playing the game as GM of the Cubs for the next 80 or 90 years and you still haven't won a World Series would you consider it a bug as well? I wouldn't.

injury log · 08-07-2016, 03:23 AM

Maybe this particular thread took a bad turn early on, but speaking in general, I think it's unfortunate that threads which constructively criticize OOTP are often treated dismissively by a lot of posters here - I'm referring to comments like "this is an awful post", which just isn't true (if it referred to the OP), the OP made several good points, see comments below. It's cool that people love OOTP and want to defend it, but it's a great game, everyone here knows that, and it can withstand some constructive feedback from people who think it could be better. That's how the game will improve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

1. Until you can trade for a player and make his current team eat some of his salary, it's not a baseball game.

This is definitely an issue. One difficulty with changes like this is that not only does the functionality need to exist, but the AI needs to understand the implications of it, so AI teams don't make ludicrous trades. So these sorts of changes are harder to code than some might imagine, but it's important enough that it should be included in OOTP at some point soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

2. The AI offered trades are terrible!

I also find this to be true in most of my leagues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

3. If you search for a player with a custom filter like last name, unless you clear it, that filter also then applies to waiver and Rule 5 lists.

I'm not sure if that's a bug or intentional behaviour. I don't like the behaviour personally, it's confusing if you don't notice the filter still applies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

4. It's way too easy to create a winning team against the AI.
[...] I'm sure the answer is to play in a live league, but I don't have that kind of time and I generally don't like online people.

This is true, if you keep trade settings on default and try really hard to accumulate prospects. The harder trade settings help a lot. Playing in online leagues helps too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

5. The trade deadline is meaningless in OOTP 17. Look at the recent MLB frenzy that occurred between 7/31 and 8/1.

This year was really unusual in the volume of deadline trades, so one shouldn't expect OOTP to match. OOTP does get the number of trades right in most leagues, and trades happen roughly at the right time of year, but in July, they're spread out more than in real life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

6. Pitchouts are even more worthless than they were before. This really needs to be fixed.

There's an article on BP about recent use of pitchouts that you might be able to find with a search, and pitchouts have become an extremely rare play in real life. Teams might use them to control Billy Hamilton, but otherwise they're almost never used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

7. Stealing bases has gotten wayyyyyy too difficult.

There is a problem with the best basestealers; they should be successful slightly more often than they are. But if you play out games, and the top basestealers could steal at will, you'd be able to easily manufacture 200 SB seasons, and to keep stats realistic, the game needs to control steal attempts somehow when the user manages games. Maybe what the game does now is not the best approach, but there needs to be some kind of control.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

8. This is my biggest complaint! Talent always goes down, but it never goes up!

So it is true (the replies to you were correct) that potential does sometimes go up in OOTP. But your point is a very good one: it goes up far less often than it should. Anyone making a reasonable comparison of OOTP and real life will arrive at that conclusion. This is one of my biggest issues with the development model too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

9. You can't take a chance on emerging players by signing them to earily long-term contracts.

This is not something I've tested in OOTP, but my understanding is that it should sometimes be possible, but not always. It's a player's personality ratings that should determine his willingness to sign that kind of deal. Maybe it's too hard though, I haven't looked at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

10. You can no longer take a chance on injured free agents because they'll only sign for a year.

I haven't looked at this in OOTP17, but in the past it's been true that the contract demands of injured players sometimes haven't made perfect sense.

#11 I haven't looked at.

SirMichaelJordan · 08-07-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

Maybe this particular thread took a bad turn early on, but speaking in general, I think it's unfortunate that threads which constructively criticize OOTP are often treated dismissively by a lot of posters here - I'm referring to comments like "this is an awful post", which just isn't true (if it referred to the OP), the OP made several good points, see comments below. It's cool that people love OOTP and want to defend it, but it's a great game, everyone here knows that, and it can withstand some constructive feedback from people who think it could be better. That's how the game will improve.

This is definitely an issue. One difficulty with changes like this is that not only does the functionality need to exist, but the AI needs to understand the implications of it, so AI teams don't make ludicrous trades. So these sorts of changes are harder to code than some might imagine, but it's important enough that it should be included in OOTP at some point soon.

I also find this to be true in most of my leagues.

I'm not sure if that's a bug or intentional behaviour. I don't like the behaviour personally, it's confusing if you don't notice the filter still applies.

This is true, if you keep trade settings on default and try really hard to accumulate prospects. The harder trade settings help a lot. Playing in online leagues helps too.

This year was really unusual in the volume of deadline trades, so one shouldn't expect OOTP to match. OOTP does get the number of trades right in most leagues, and trades happen roughly at the right time of year, but in July, they're spread out more than in real life.

There's an article on BP about recent use of pitchouts that you might be able to find with a search, and pitchouts have become an extremely rare play in real life. Teams might use them to control Billy Hamilton, but otherwise they're almost never used.

There is a problem with the best basestealers; they should be successful slightly more often than they are. But if you play out games, and the top basestealers could steal at will, you'd be able to easily manufacture 200 SB seasons, and to keep stats realistic, the game needs to control steal attempts somehow when the user manages games. Maybe what the game does now is not the best approach, but there needs to be some kind of control.

So it is true (the replies to you were correct) that potential does sometimes go up in OOTP. But your point is a very good one: it goes up far less often than it should. Anyone making a reasonable comparison of OOTP and real life will arrive at that conclusion. This is one of my biggest issues with the development model too.

This is not something I've tested in OOTP, but my understanding is that it should sometimes be possible, but not always. It's a player's personality ratings that should determine his willingness to sign that kind of deal. Maybe it's too hard though, I haven't looked at it.

I haven't looked at this in OOTP17, but in the past it's been true that the contract demands of injured players sometimes haven't made perfect sense.

#11 I haven't looked at.

I just wish the art of contructive criticism wasn't lost.

David Watts · 08-07-2016, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Well I left mum's basement in 1979. Were you alive then?

This got me thinking.....I live in Louisiana. I guess I'm immune to the "Living in mom's basement" insult. Then I got to thinking even more. Growing up in Michigan our house didn't have a basement either. So now I'm feeling cheated.

RchW · 08-07-2016, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

This got me thinking.....I live in Louisiana. I guess I'm immune to the "Living in mom's basement" insult. Then I got to thinking even more. Growing up in Michigan our house didn't have a basement either. So now I'm feeling cheated.

I never actually lived in anyone's basement but I helped build the quintessential 1970's style rec room in my parents house.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 08-07-2016, 04:41 PM

I live in an English basement but work in a German bar.

BigRed75 · 08-07-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I never actually lived in anyone's basement but I helped build the quintessential 1970's style rec room in my parents house.

Wood paneling?

Toast · 08-07-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

I can do better, but I wouldn't want to waste it on this crowd.

If you criticise it they will come! From the novel Field of Screams

Thanatoast

canadian content · 08-07-2016, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubsManager

I can do better, but I wouldn't want to waste it on this crowd.

Translation = I can't do better.

TuckerDuckson · 08-08-2016, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I haven't seen a pitch out in RL baseball in 6-10 years.

I know this is late but look up Ronald Torreyes swing in google and its literally Robinson Chirinos doing a pitchout on a hit and run. So they happen when the management/pitcher/catcher can find the signal on a hit and run so they are decently common if they can get it right. Not as much anymore, but they happen

edl129 · 08-08-2016, 02:53 AM

What happened to players coming out of retirement? Wasnt it part of 6.5

JohnHoward · 08-08-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashtego

Let's Go Mets!

How does that dude get through that bathroom door? wait ... never mind, I don't want to know.

NoOne · 08-08-2016, 06:10 PM

he's got one thing right... the game can't do simple things like sort on some screens, lol. and the filter applying to other screens, i've seen that too.

alot of what i read seemd more self-infliced than caused by the game, like the # of steals part. the statistical results are in our control within the constraints of the game engine -- ie there is a min and max of what you can affect.

if you think # of forum posts in any online forum correlates to anything intelligent or positive in nature you are not a rational person or you have never read internet comments before...

tlowe77 · 08-08-2016, 07:52 PM

The thing is that OOTP doesn't have a company that has over 1,000 employees working on the game every single day. Things will be missed, things won't work properly BUT they do their best and actually listen to us.

EA still struggles with many of their games (NBA live etc) and they have more resources then OOTP could even dream of, so lets give them a break.

If you don't enjoy it, don't play it? But starting threads like this can only hurt their business meaning less money for them to try and improve the game. So either report bugs in the 'Bug thread' or add a post of wants in the 'Suggestions Thread'.

I will continue to give them money so they can continue to improve the game, and no it doesn't do everything I want it to but either does any game out there. I enjoy it for what it is.

08-05-2016, 08:10 PM	#21
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	Re: the trade deadline - what you have reported has not been the case in my experience. This July, the AI did a metric assload of trades; so much so that I'm thinking about toning down the settings for next season. Then, in August, trading activity fell off a cliff. The only thing, and it seems like this might be where you have your complaint, is that none of the trades actually occurred on July 31. It had the the standard news article about the trade deadline, then no actual trades. But from July 26 to July 30, players were swapping shirts like it was the end of a soccer match. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

08-05-2016, 09:30 PM	#23
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,308 Blog Entries: 32	I will say this for the game, we're 17 years in and people are still making posts like this. Says something about it's longevity. Except, can you all remember the sorts of things we were asking for back then and how far this game has come? Crazy to think about! __________________ Godfather of Fast-Sim OOTP My Mods: GMExcel 24 Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| My (outdated) market calculator & financial spreadsheets

08-07-2016, 04:41 PM	#32
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	I live in an English basement but work in a German bar. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason

08-05-2016, 10:13 PM	#24
OOTPinstripes Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 24	in all seriousness, I do think the game needs an option in team and individual player strategy to allow players to steal bases on their own. In team settings, you can give all players the green light, give no players the green light, or defer to individual player settings. There would also be individual settings, which would come into play if you've opted to defer to these. For players that you haven't given the green light to, you can obvious still tell them to steal. For players you have given the green light to, the signal to steal becomes a signal to not steal.

08-08-2016, 02:53 AM	#37
edl129 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 26	What happened to players coming out of retirement? Wasnt it part of 6.5

08-08-2016, 06:10 PM	#39
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	he's got one thing right... the game can't do simple things like sort on some screens, lol. and the filter applying to other screens, i've seen that too. alot of what i read seemd more self-infliced than caused by the game, like the # of steals part. the statistical results are in our control within the constraints of the game engine -- ie there is a min and max of what you can affect. if you think # of forum posts in any online forum correlates to anything intelligent or positive in nature you are not a rational person or you have never read internet comments before...

08-08-2016, 07:52 PM	#40
tlowe77 Major Leagues Join Date: May 2015 Location: Geelong, Australia Posts: 473	The thing is that OOTP doesn't have a company that has over 1,000 employees working on the game every single day. Things will be missed, things won't work properly BUT they do their best and actually listen to us. EA still struggles with many of their games (NBA live etc) and they have more resources then OOTP could even dream of, so lets give them a break. If you don't enjoy it, don't play it? But starting threads like this can only hurt their business meaning less money for them to try and improve the game. So either report bugs in the 'Bug thread' or add a post of wants in the 'Suggestions Thread'. I will continue to give them money so they can continue to improve the game, and no it doesn't do everything I want it to but either does any game out there. I enjoy it for what it is.