Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions

Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions General chat about the game...

View Poll Results: Are you ok with not having anymore patches for OOTP11?
YES 120 68.97%
NO 54 31.03%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2010, 11:31 PM   #61
Killing Time
All Star Starter
 
Killing Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutlaw View Post
There are many productive ways to contribute to this game and this community and insulting others over disagreements is not one.
Then why did you just do exactly that?
__________________
"I'm killing time while I wait for life to shower me with meaning and happiness."

Quote:
Originally Posted by endgame View Post
In my best imitation of KT, "I don't know. Would? May? This could have been better. I'm a bit disappointed."
Please don't beat the dead graphics horse.
Killing Time is offline  
Old 09-21-2010, 10:52 AM   #62
Malleus Dei
Hall Of Famer
 
Malleus Dei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutlaw View Post
There are many productive ways to contribute to this game and this community and insulting others over disagreements is not one.
Which is, of course, why you did it? LOL.

Your spirited defense of mediocrity and the failure of the current crop of beta testers to get legacy bugs addressed is hysterically funny. It's almost as funny as you engaging in the exact same forum tactics you claim so vehemently to oppose. Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

And don't try to tell me that what you laughably call "forum bullying" (translation by you: expressing opinions you find offensive - translation by others: expressing honest opinions) doesn't get things changed around here, because it has, it does, and it will.

Got any more things to say in defense of mediocrity? I have lots more to say in praise of excellence.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage

If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statfreak View Post
MD has disciples.
Malleus Dei is offline  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:28 PM   #63
ootpFox07
All Star Starter
 
ootpFox07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,674
OK guys, been reading this for a while, here's my take.

Aggravated back and forth "discussions" with each other will get everyone no where so might as well just let it go. Punch a pillow. Skip a baby turtle. Whatever floats your boat. No one cares to read it.

In terms of the 70% of legacy bugs, I always see a lot of people saying "Screw the new features. Markus needs to fix the bugs now" but not really either explaining or putting much effort into giving Markus and Andreas the information they need to address those issues. "Waivers are broken" does nothing to explain what kind of problem you see happening or how they can go about replicating it to determine the cause.

If it's a once in a 10,000 game RBI scoring issue, is it going to be as high a priority as if say the entire career pitching model was off? Likely not. It might be annoying as all get out to you if you sim that many games and if that's the case, document the issue. Save your league files, your box scores and anything else you can, ZIP it and post it on the forums or for support. Maybe the support team can help, maybe they can escalate it to Markus and say "This is a real issue". Maybe it's a simple fix. Maybe it needs some time. You never know until you post it.

I saw a lot of noise this spring about a scouting bug where scouts were undervaluing prospects and upon looking into it after a couple beta testers did some research and ran some numbers, Markus found the issue quite readily and fixed it.

Not going to make excuses, but OOTP is not like other games out there. It's a couple guys doing what they love and trying to eek out a living doing it. The beta team is a bunch of guys who love this game and want to help make it a solid product. Is the effort here mediocre? I doubt guys like injury_log, endgame, corsairs, bluenoser, pstrickert, Alan T, Muzamba and haveband would think it was mediocre. I saw them all dedicated a lot of time this winter to the testing and improvement effort. In my mind, giving a little means getting a lot. I put in my time to help manage some tasks and test during the beta and all of the biggest issues I submitted were all addressed before the release.

Would I expect to put in some effort to help fix "The Show 2010" if I paid $40 for that game? Not really because I doubt I'd ever get a chance to actually email the lead developer of the game to say "Linsecum's motion on his delivery is off. Can you fix it?". It'd go to the EA nether-sphere never to be seen again. There's a unique opportunity to be a part of the process here. That's how I see it anyway.
__________________
My OOTP Gaming Channels:
My OOTP Mods:

Last edited by ootpFox07; 09-21-2010 at 02:35 PM.
ootpFox07 is offline  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:15 PM   #64
Malleus Dei
Hall Of Famer
 
Malleus Dei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
There's a unique opportunity to get the game and the stats right here. That's how 30% of us see it.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage

If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statfreak View Post
MD has disciples.
Malleus Dei is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 02:36 AM   #65
mtw
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 653
I'm not very surprised by this polling result. Disappointed, but not surprised.

The major bugs in the game probably only impact a relatively small number of users. That said, the earned run and RBI scoring bugs and baserunning bugs make OOTP11 completely unusable for me, and I'm very disappointed that the repeated efforts of many users, beginning soon after release, to get at least the former two bugs fixed were ignored. Now in its 11th--12th really--version, I find this unacceptable.

The blatant apathy toward a major bug in his game is a new experience for me.

OOTP3 was a minor miracle to me after beginning my quest for the holy grail of baseball simmers 20 years ago--the blend of a full-fledged GM and statistically accurate baseball simulation that *felt* like baseball, complete with an encyclopedia like, well, The Baseball Encyclopedia . And I almost found it with OOTP6.5 (and Catobase). Didn't find it, but almost.

Since I began with OOTP3, whether he was successful or not in fixing bugs, Markus was always responsive--you could tell that he cared and that he was trying to fix the problem. That you could even communicate with the developer was another minor miracle, and that he'd respond was yet another. Regardless of the bugs, given the other positive aspects of the game, that caring has been good enough for me to keep paying for each new version since.

That caring was strong all through OOTP6.5, and I think maybe into OOTP7--disappointing as it was--and OOTP8 (the patch for OOTP7).

I felt strongly that his caring began to wane a couple of years ago, but not enough to turn me off, because the game was again moving in the right direction. However, he is apparently content with the presence of multiple major bugs as good enough in a 12th generation game, and 70% approve (again I'm certain because it doesn't impact their use of the game). Democracy in action, and fair enough in my book.

Given the amount of enjoyment I got out of OOTP6.5, it was worth the money I paid for versions 7 through 11. However, with OOTP11, Markus has apparently quit supporting my use of OOTP, so I have no further use for the game.

My last best hope to find the holy grail is lost, my quest over.
__________________
Over-Zealous Apologist

Last edited by mtw; 09-22-2010 at 02:39 AM.
mtw is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 11:53 AM   #66
Malleus Dei
Hall Of Famer
 
Malleus Dei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
Heart-rending and well put, mtw. 70% of the forum, though, just doesn't give a damn about serious legacy bugs that make the game's statistics invalid.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage

If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statfreak View Post
MD has disciples.

Last edited by Malleus Dei; 09-22-2010 at 11:57 AM.
Malleus Dei is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 12:35 PM   #67
BusterKing
Hall Of Famer
 
BusterKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,361
I found it very strange that Markus hasn't posted on his forum since August 30th.

He was on the forums:

Last Activity: Yesterday 08:49 AM


Maybe he's having some stressing out issues, he has been known to suffer those bouts in the past.

I know OOTP11 has these serious bug issues that should really get fixed. Maybe just a word from him that he will fix them would give us some hope.

I also find it hard to believe that he hasn't posted for almost 2 months.

Since the very first release of OOTP it has given me many hours of fun gaming. Every year I look forward to his new release with great anticipation. I would hate to see him just throwing the towel in.

We must also remind him how great of a game he is giving us and I think many of us are failing in that aspect.

I want Markus to continue in providing us with many more new versions of the game. It has become part of our daily lives for many of us and I don't want to lose that.
BusterKing is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:08 PM   #68
neojonas
All Star Starter
 
neojonas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
I found it very strange that Markus hasn't posted on his forum since August 30th.

He was on the forums:

Last Activity: Yesterday 08:49 AM

I also find it hard to believe that he hasn't posted for almost 2 months.
That's not entirely true. Just because you can't see someone's recent posts doesn't mean they haven't posted. There are restricted/private areas on these forums that contain non-public posts. So to see if someone has posted recently you have to look at their post count to see if that's increased, not their recent posts. Not saying I have any inside knowledge on what's going on with Markus in particular, but just in general. Also, in times of quietness from the developers I usually assume they are buried in code somewhere. As a programmer myself, when I'm in the middle of a big project, the less distraction the better. Just need to get in the zone.
neojonas is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:19 PM   #69
spitfire
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 543
For what it's worth (which is nothing!), count me in as one who would like to see the legacy bugs finally killed. For those who say that the complainers should stop complaining and give listings and examples of the bugs so they can be addressed, that has been done repeatedly in the past. There seems little point in doing so again when the earlier examples were ineffective in getting the bugs attended to. OOTP is a fun and enjoyable game as it stands, but in my book won't achieve true excellence as a simulation while you have RBI's being assigned incorrectly, pitchers being needlessly burned due to injury on inning ending plays, etc.

I doubt that Markus's inactivity is necessarily a sign of burnout. I've noticed the last couple of years that he's most active on the forums just before release, when the new features are being hyped. The rest of the time, not so much. Chances are he's just busy with other OOTP projects. Even if he did post in this thread, what would he say more than "We're continually trying to eliminate all documented and reproducable bugs"?
spitfire is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:22 PM   #70
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
I know OOTP11 has these serious bug issues that should really get fixed. Maybe just a word from him that he will fix them would give us some hope.
Based on his track record, I imagine MH, if he were to read your post, BK, would respond as such: "What serious bug issues?"
pstrickert is online now  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #71
Malleus Dei
Hall Of Famer
 
Malleus Dei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
And the answer would be: "The legacy Earned Runs and RBI bugs especially, because they invalidate the game's statistics, but also the entire laundry list of legacy bugs that remain unfixed version after version. All of which have been reported, and some of which we were assured had been fixed in OOTP 11."
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage

If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statfreak View Post
MD has disciples.
Malleus Dei is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 03:46 PM   #72
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,696
The problem is not that MH won't fix them. The problem is that he thinks he has fixed them. He probably has no idea that y'all feel disgruntled right now. (I could be wrong, though.)
pstrickert is online now  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:09 PM   #73
BusterKing
Hall Of Famer
 
BusterKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
The problem is not that MH won't fix them. The problem is that he thinks he has fixed them. He probably has no idea that y'all feel disgruntled right now. (I could be wrong, though.)
Well if he reads his forums just a little bit, Markus should be well aware of the remaining serious issues.
BusterKing is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:16 PM   #74
Malleus Dei
Hall Of Famer
 
Malleus Dei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
Well if he reads his forums just a little bit, Markus should be well aware of the remaining serious issues.
I just don't see how he could not be aware of them.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage

If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by statfreak View Post
MD has disciples.
Malleus Dei is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:22 PM   #75
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,696
"Not knowing" sometimes makes life a whole lot easier.
pstrickert is online now  
Old 09-22-2010, 04:58 PM   #76
The Real MD
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
We must also remind him how great of a game he is giving us and I think many of us are failing in that aspect.
I see this sentiment occasionally here and don't feel it's warranted at all. Markus is a businessman (and an adult, too!) and we're his customers...we shouldn't have to treat him with kid gloves and "remind" him how great a game he is giving us.

We all wouldn't be here if we didn't like the game, so by being longtime paying customers, we're hardly failing in that aspect.
The Real MD is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:20 PM   #77
BusterKing
Hall Of Famer
 
BusterKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MD View Post
I see this sentiment occasionally here and don't feel it's warranted at all. Markus is a businessman (and an adult, too!) and we're his customers...we shouldn't have to treat him with kid gloves and "remind" him how great a game he is giving us.

We all wouldn't be here if we didn't like the game, so by being longtime paying customers, we're hardly failing in that aspect.

There's nothing wrong in telling someone he's doing a good job.

I for one, don't want to see him quit making this game and if everyone has nothing but complaints then one can get discouraged, it isn't all about money. This isn't a huge company that relies on share holders.
BusterKing is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 06:51 PM   #78
Sabermetric Baseball
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtw View Post
I'm not very surprised by this polling result. Disappointed, but not surprised. The major bugs in the game probably only impact a relatively small number of users. That said, the earned run and RBI scoring bugs and baserunning bugs make OOTP11 completely unusable for me, and I'm very disappointed that the repeated efforts of many users, beginning soon after release, to get at least the former two bugs fixed were ignored. Now in its 11th--12th really--version, I find this unacceptable.
There's currently 102 'Yes' and 44 'No'. A 30% dissatisfaction rate is *extremely* high by most companies' standards. I don't think your poll was a worthless endeavor, this almost certainly opened some eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spitfire View Post
For those who say that the complainers should stop complaining and give listings and examples of the bugs so they can be addressed, that has been done repeatedly in the past. There seems little point in doing so again when the earlier examples were ineffective in getting the bugs attended to.
Agreed! The OOTP Development team wanted bugs submitted via their ticketing system, rather than the message forum. Myself and several members of my sim league created tickets in the summer, Technical Support acknowledged they can replicate the error and logged them as bugs, and the errors were still not corrected in the final patch. Bugs have been communicated through the requested channels, and the development team is aware of them - that much should not be in question.

It's unrealistic to expect one person to list out all of the bugs when the ticketing statuses/system have no visibility. The next time someone demands a list from you, send them this link: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...l-support.html

Likewise, don't complain about a bug if you haven't submitted it in a ticket.
__________________
The Sabermetric Baseball Sim
http://www.sabermetricbaseballsim.com/
Sabermetric Baseball is offline  
Old 09-22-2010, 07:26 PM   #79
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
Well if he reads his forums just a little bit, Markus should be well aware of the remaining serious issues.
As I said, I've beta tested for three years. I have serious doubts whether MH checks the beta forums on a regular basis.
pstrickert is online now  
Old 09-22-2010, 08:55 PM   #80
kckid4u
All Star Reserve
 
kckid4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pictured Above: Buck Barnett - Best Pitcher in OOTP History!
Posts: 957
I voted "yes" simply because Markus already said that the last patch was the last patch. So it's pretty useless to expect another. This whole conversation seems pretty futile to me.

I mean we all should know by now we will not be getting an additional patch for version 11 and most, if not all of us will be buying version 12 when it comes out, and a lot of us, (me included), will be bitching about all the carry over bugs and all the new ones with it's release.

We do it every year. Surely you all know this. It's like "Groundhog Day" every year, over and over again.

Now the only way to stop this cycle, is if all of us agree to not buy version 12 until all these "legacy" bugs are fixed, and even if we all agreed to not buy it, you know all of us would secretly buy it anyway the day it's released and pretend we didn't.

So......that's why I voted "yes."
kckid4u is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:55 PM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments