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Old 01-06-2004, 02:27 AM   #41
djday45
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Just a quick message to say thks to everybody for the extra fighters everyone is providing!

rgds
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Old 01-08-2004, 11:48 AM   #42
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Thanks, Dean, for the ones you have posted, too. A couple more oldtime flyweights coming tonight ...
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Old 01-12-2004, 01:48 AM   #43
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Bump to keep on 1st page.
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Old 01-13-2004, 10:32 PM   #44
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And another bump, but something more substantial soon, I hope.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
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Old 01-15-2004, 12:24 PM   #45
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More boxers, more boxers!

<b><font size=3>Maxie Strub</b></font>
Lightweight
Home: Erie, Pa.
Career: 1928-37
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=056971" target="_blank">Record</a>: 43-11-7 (13)

Style: boxer
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 10/9
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF -2
FS 1
OR 2
DP 1
CON 2
INT 3
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 72
Punches
J 17.5/0
H 26.25/0
CR 21.25/0
CB 12.5/0
UC 22.5/0
PL 36
CP 38
PM 64
Rate 7

Something must have happened to Maxie Strub. I don't know what. He was moving into the ranks of contenders, beating Wesley Ramey, Johnny Jadick, and Eddie Cool in succession in 1935. (The win over Ramey avenged an earlier loss.) Then, suddenly, after a loss to welterweight Dick Demaray--in Demaray's home town--Strub is finished.

Earlier in his career Strub also defeated Sammy Mandell, Sammy Dorfman, Luke Carr, and Mike Ballerino, while absorbing losses at the hands of Eddie (Kid) Wagner, Ray Miller, and Joe Marcus.

Something must have happened. Strub gave every indication of a fighter who could have gone farther.
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Old 01-15-2004, 01:03 PM   #46
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David;
Thanks for Strub. Interesting guy.

I have Lew Farber done, if you're interested. Did you pick up Star Frisco?

Others of that era/ilk I'm working on are Tommy Paul and Jack "Spider" Armstrong (unless you've already done them and intend to post them!) LOL

Do I remember you saying you had done Harold Hoshino?

Thanks again for your efforts and sharing.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
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Currently operating 1970s SM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes

Last edited by vistaman44; 01-15-2004 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 01-15-2004, 03:48 PM   #47
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Mark,

I've done Tommy Paul, but I would be interested in seeing your version. In fact, the best Tommy Paul might be a "compromise" between ours.

And yes, Harold "Homicide" Hoshino is someone I've finished, although I am still play-testing him.
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:35 PM   #48
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Mark,

Forgot to add that I'd love to get Farber too. Here is a middleweight from the era that you're replaying.

(Note: I was going to wait for the export function that Andreas is whipping up, but swapping these ratings is good for the TBCB community. I'd rather have more boxers in the game than improved graphics.)

<b><font size=3>Jimmy Edgar</b></font>
Middleweight
b. 1921-03-30
Home: Detroit, Mich.
Career, 1940-47
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=011779" target="_blank">Record</a>: 31-5-1 (17)

Style: Either
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 9/10
HP 4
CKD 1
CKO 0
REC 3
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 7
AGG 6
END 9
DEF 0
FS 1
OR 3
DP 1
CON 1
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 3
CU 1
GK 1
CLI 66
Punches
J 20/1
H 16/3
CR 16/3
CB 20/3
UC 15/3
PL 36
CP 38
PM 63
Rate 8

A native of Starkville, Miss., Edgar lost twice to Jake LaMotta and twice to Tommy Yarosz, but he also defeated Dave Clark and Ossie Harris--both in the game--and some other pretty good fighters, including Saverio Turiello, Johnny (Deacon) Brown, and in his last fight, Chuck Hunter.
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Old 01-15-2004, 08:44 PM   #49
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Post More oldtimers

I absolutely agree, David. The more tested, accurate fighters the merrier.

Here's my Lew Farber, bantamweight contender, 1928-38, from New York City. Was 53-28-29 with 9 KOs. Split with Midget Wolgast, Irish Bobby Green and Pablo Dano; beat Speedy Dado and Jimmy Lancaster; drew three times with Mike Belloise; lost to Baby Arizmendi, Pete DeGrasse, Baltazar Sangchili, Star Frisco and Little Pancho.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 9/8
HP 2
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 1
AP 2
KI 6
AGG 6
END 10
DEF -2
FS 2
OR 2
DP 3
CON 2
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 68
Punches
J 24/1
H 16/1
CR 20/1
CB 24/1
UC 12/0
PL 40
CP 36
PM 60
Rate 7

In case you missed it, here's fly/bantam Star Frisco, born in the Philippines and fought in the U.S., 1932-38. He weighed 111-115 and posted a 14-13-3 record with one KO. Was never knocked out or TKO'd. Defeated champion Small Montana, but lost to Little Dado and title claimant Jackie Jurich. Defeated bantam title claimant Mickey Miller twice, lost to Umio Gen and defeated Lew Farber in other notable fights.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 8/7
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 1
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF 0
FS 2
OR 2
DP 1
CON 2
INT 5
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 68
Punches
J 24/0
H 17/0
CR 23/0
CB 19/0
UC 17/0
PL 38
CP 36
PM 64
Rate 5

Those two were tested. Here's my raw start on Tommy Paul:

Tommy Paul won the NBA world featherweight title in a 15-round decision over Johnny Pena. He was 80-29-10, 25 KOs, fighting at 116-134 pounds from 1928-38. Real name Gaetano Alfonso Papa, born 1909-03-04, died 1991-04-28. He defeated Frankie Genaro, Pete DeGrasse, Mike O'Dowd, Pena, Tommy Ryan, Phil Zwick, Bushy Graham, Maurice Holtzer, Johnny McCoy and Archie Bell; split bouts with Georgie Hansford, Fidel LaBarba and Freddie Miller, who took his title; drew with Panama Al Brown, Petey Sarron and Kid Chocolate; and lost to Jackie Wilson, Young Rightmire, Baby Arizmendi, Frankie Covelli, Holman Williams, Lew Feldman and Leo Rodak. Only KO'd twice in 120 fights.

Boxer/occasionally
CFB/S 10/9
HP 3
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 1
AP 2
KI 6
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -2
FS 2
OR 2
DP 4
CON 2
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 2
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 66
Punches
J 22/3
H 15/1
CR 18/1
CB 22/3
UC 14/1
PL 40
CP 38
PM 58
Rate 8

As I said, Farber and Frisco are tested. Paul may need some work. Enjoy!

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
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Currently operating 1970s SM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes

Last edited by vistaman44; 01-15-2004 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:37 AM   #50
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As promised.

<b><font size=3>Harold Hoshino</b></font>
Featherweight
b. 1916-04-22
d. 1998-05-14
Home: Seattle
Trainer: Lonnie Austin
Career, 1937-47
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=054492" target="_blank">Record</a>: 36-5-2 (27)

Style: Slugger
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 7/9
HP 8
CKD 2
CKO 2
REC 3
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 8
AGG 8
END 7
DEF 4
FS 1
OR 3
DP 1
CON 1
INT 4
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 1
CU 1
GK 4
CLI 60
Punches
J 15/2
H 13/10
CR 13/8
CB 12/6
UC 14/7
PL 36
CP 34
PM 65
Rate 6

I've got to admit that these ratings are largely speculative. Hoshino was an intriguing Japanese-American featherweight who fought in Seattle and Honolulu prior to Pearl Harbor. Then he disappeared for six years. (Was he sent to a relocation camp?)

"Homicide Hal" never fought anyone particularly well-regarded, except perhaps Georgie Hansford, whom he kayoed in nine. A stoppage rate of 62.7% is nothing to sneeze at, though. If not for the war, which came when he was 25, would he have developed into a contender? Or is a 25-year-old featherweight already an old man? (Tony Canzoneri won the title at 19. Willie Pep was 20; Henry Armstrong, a couple of months short of his 24th birthday.)

Well, we'll never know for sure. Based on the ratings above, <i>this</i> Hoshino will amount to an interesting fighter just below the ranks of contenders.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:08 AM   #51
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Pinky Silverberg

OK, It's about time I pulled my finger out and contributed again to this excellent thread! here are four flyweight title claimants/contenders from the twenties and thirties. All have been tested well against their opponents and have performed very realistically.


Pinky Silverberg
Flyweight USA
Career 1920-1932
Overall Rating 7

CFB/S 10/10
HP 1
KD 1
KO 1
REC 0
CUT 1
AP 1
KI 4
AGG 5
END 10
DEF 0
FS 3
FR 2
DP 2
COND 2
INT 8
FI 1
FO 3
CU 3
KO 0
STYLE - BOXER
FOULS - SELDOM
PL 36
CP 38
PM 63
CL 68
JAB 27.75
HOOK 14.75
CROSS 18.5
COMB 24
UPP 15

Rgds
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:12 AM   #52
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Johnny McCoy

Johnny McCoy
Flyweight USA
Career 1916-1932
Overall Rating 8

CFB/S 10/10
HP 2
KD 2
KO 1
REC 1
CUT 1
AP 2
KI 7
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -2
FS 2
FR 1
DP 2
COND 1
INT 9
FI 2
FO 3
CU 3
KO 1
STYLE - BOXER
FOULS - OCC
PL 36
CP 38
PM 59
CL 69
JAB 22/3.75
HOOK 14.75
CROSS 20.25/2.75
COMB 22.25/3.25
UPP 11

Rgds
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:16 AM   #53
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Johnny Hill

Johnny Hill
Flyweight, United Kingdom
Career 1926-1936
Overall Rating 7

CFB/S 11/11
HP 4
KD 2
KO 3
REC 5
CUT 1
AP 3
KI 7
AGG 8
END 10
DEF +2
FS 3
FR 2
DP 4
COND 2
INT 7
FI 2
FO 2
CU 1
KO 2
PL 40
CP 40
PM 64
CL 71
STYLE - BOXER
FOULS - SELDOM
JAB 22.25
HOOK 9.25
CROSS 23.75/4.5
COMB 18/3.5
UPP 14.75/4

Rgds
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:18 AM   #54
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Black Bill

Black Bill
Flyweight, Cuba
Career 1920-1930
Overall Rating 10

CFB/S 12/12
HP 2
KD 1
KO 0
REC 1
CUT 1
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF -2
FS 2
FR 2
DP 3
COND 1
INT 9
FI 2
FO 3
CU 2
KO 2
STYLE - BOXER
FOULS - SELDOM
PL 42
CP 42
PM 62
CL 69
JAB 20.25/4
HOOK 16.75
CROSS 22.25
COMB 22.25/3.25
UPP 11.25

Rgds
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:21 AM   #55
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Wow! Thanks, Dean and David. Those will keep me out of trouble all day, and most of them can be used in my 1940-50 universe. Appreciate the effort, guys. Keep sharing!
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Old 01-16-2004, 08:18 AM   #56
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Dean,

Thanks for the flyweights, especially Pincus Silverberg. There is a short biography of him at <a href="http://jewsinsports.org/" target="_blank">jewsinsports.org</a>.

I already had all of these flys in my universe, and rated just about the same as you have them. (You and I agreed almost to the letter on Silverberg.) Your versions of the fighters gave me the chance to tweak mine.

Amazing, isn't it, that there once was a time when a prominent contender--a Cuban whose real name was Eladio Valdes--could publicly be called Black Bill? He was trained, btw, by Moe Fleischer.

At all events, to add to your set here is the Rube whom Silverberg defeated in order to claim the NBA flyweight title.

<b><font size=3>Ruby (Dark Cloud) Bradley</b></font>
Home: Holyoke, Mass.
Career, 1925-37
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=044651" target="_blank">Record</a>: 34-25-2 (4)

Style: Boxer
Fouls frequently

CFB/S 9/10
HP 1
CKD 3
CKO 2
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -2
FS 2
OR 2
DP 1
CON 3
INT 5
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 4
CU 3
GK 0
CLI 59
Punches
J 22/0
H 18.25/0
CR 18.75/0
CB 21/0
UC 20/0
PL 34
CP 38
PM 59
Rate 5
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Old 01-16-2004, 08:35 AM   #57
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Kirkland Laing

Excellent thread, very knowledgable. Has anyone rated Kirkland Laing, was he in TF2001?
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:28 AM   #58
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Question Kirkland Laing

Hadn't noticed he was missing. He was a "one-hit wonder" with the win over Duran and not much else, IIRC. Unusual character. Will look back and see if he was in TF2001 or the board game.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-16-2004, 09:29 AM   #59
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David,
thks, It's weird we are seemingly in agreement on these guys as rating fighters is so subjective to begin with and then to find hard info is such a pain.

I am now working on some early Bantam champs not in the game such as the great Jimmy Barry, Harry Harris and the later Eddie "Cannonball" Martin.
Should have these tested and ready soon.

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Old 01-16-2004, 09:35 AM   #60
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Dean,

I was planning on rating Black Bill myself. I was exploring boxrec.com looking for fighters to rate (like I do almost everyday...I promise I share some more soon) and I came across him.

Thanks for saving me the time. Nice work everybody!

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