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Old 12-31-2003, 01:07 AM   #21
David Myers
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Since Mark posted Frankie "Kid" Covelli, here is a scrappy featherweight who fought him three times, beating him twice.

<b><font size=3>Pete DeGrasse</b></font>
Canada
Career, 1927-41
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=031419" target="_blank">Record</a>: 75-51-22 (4)

Style: Boxer
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 9/10
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 5
AGG 6
END 10
DEF -2
FS 3
OR 3
DP 2
CON 1
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 0
CLI 70
Punches
J 20/0
H 20/0
CR 20/0
CB 20/0
UC 20/0
PL 38
CP 40
PM 60
Rate 7

A leading contender, DeGrasse battled and lost to some of the biggest names in boxing in the late thirties, including Henry Armstrong, Petey Scalzo, Jackie Wilson, Chalky Wright, Mike Belloise, Al Roth, and Pete Sanstol. He also posted victories over Roth, Georgie Hansford, Young Rightmire, Lew Feldman, Vittorio Tamagnini, Petey Hayes, and Benny Brostoff.

A St. Regis Indian, DeGrasse fought out of Flatbush. There is a superb picture of him <a href="http://www.antekprizering.com/degrasselapresse.html" target="_blank">here</a>. Along with Maxie Rosenbloom, he appeared in <i>Mr. Moto's Gamble</i>, a 1938 "ring mystery" from Twentieth Century Fox.
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Old 12-31-2003, 05:51 AM   #22
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Mysterious Billy Smith

I would like to thank David and others for continuing to add more fighters for everyone to enjoy.
As I previously said I have some welters and lightweight champs rated and hee is the first Mysterious Billy Smith.

Mysterious Billy Smith
Overall rating 9
Canada
Born 1871
Died 1937
Career 1891-1915 Welterweight Champion

CFB/S 11/13
HP 6
CKD 2
CKO 3
REC 2
CUTS 1
AP 3
KI 8
AGG 10
END 10
DEF +2
FS 1
FR 0
DP 7
PL 42
CP 38
PM 65
CL 75
COND 2
INT 6
STYLE SLUGGER
FOUL FREQUENT
FI 4
FO 0
CU 1
KO 2

JAB 10/0
HOOK 32/5
CROSS 10/0
COMB 15/3
UPP 20/5


rgds
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:22 PM   #23
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No. 6;
Thanks for posting Soose (and David, I agree 100 percent). I fought my Soose and the official one 100 times and the official one won 55 with 3 draws. Close, but not close enough for me. It appears I gave more weight to KOs earlier in the career than did the developers. Where I was giving credit for more HP, they were giving more skill points. I will adjust my thinking some on the better fighters' rankings in those categories in the future for the sake of consistency. Other than those categories, they're pretty close. BTW
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:23 PM   #24
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I noticed Soose is listed in the first patch 1.1
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:30 PM   #25
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Dean and David;
Nice posts on DeGrasse (he was on my list to do) and Smith. Much appreciated. Thanks!
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 12-31-2003, 12:39 PM   #26
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More Names of Unrated Boxers

William Bo James M
Segundo Mercado M
Aaron Davis W
Willie Kemp M
John Sully LH
Drake Thadzi LH
Lamar Parks M
Michael Bennett HV
Gary Wilcox CR
Kenny Keene CR
Buster Drayton M
Matthew Hilton M
Vinny Paz Various
Clint Jackson ???
Lindell Holmes M
Davey Moore M
Ramzi Hassan LH
Terrry Ray CR
Nate Miller CR
Adolpho Washington CR
Freddie Delgado LH
Anthoney Hembrick LH
Andrew Maynard LH
Mike Sedillo LH
Leeonzer Barber LH
Booker T. Word LH
Dave Tiberi M
Francesco Dell'agquila
Don Lalonde LH
Bash Ali CR
David Izequire CR
Saul Mamby W
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Old 12-31-2003, 02:42 PM   #27
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Yo, Ice Tea;
I love your work on Law & Order SVU ... LOL
Seriously, Bash Ali and Mamby are in the game. For Izeqwire and a wealth of other retired cruisers, go to http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/tf2001i...RetCWaddon.htm
One of the board regulars (sorry I can't remember who or I'd give credit) has posted a bunch of fighters there.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-01-2004, 01:24 AM   #28
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Thought I'd join the mix...anybody knowing me from TF2001 knows I like to rate fighters...I mostly do lower class fighters to add into all the great fighters.

Heres: Harry LaSane - FW - righthanded
from the United States, boxrec 013238
55-32-4 with 7 KO's from 1946 - 1954

LaSane fought many top fighters of his era including about 10 or so included in the game. Be beat Teddy "Redtop" Davis all 3 times they fought (rated a 5 in TBCB). Also beat Timothy "Buddy" Hayes the 3 times they fought (rated 3 in TBCB). Also scored a win over Bobby Bell.

LaSane lost to top-notch opponents including Sandy Saddler (rated 13!). He also lost to Eddie Compo, Gene Smith, Del Flanagan, Jackie Blair and more.

He was only KO'd or TKO'd 4 times in his career and they were all at the end of his career, so he was a battler with a very good chin. Here how I got him rated: (I playtested him extensively and it seems good)

CB/CS - 8/7
HP - 1
CKD - 0
CKO - 0
REC - 2
Cuts - 1
Absorb - 1
KI - 6
AGG - 6
End - 8
Def - 0
FS - 0
OR - 0

Draw - 2
Cond - 2
Int - 6
Prof - 10

FI - 3
FO - 3
CU - 4
go/KO - 0
Clinch - 69

Style - Both
Fouls - Seldom
Punch - 38
Counter - 34
Missed - 62
Jabs - 26/0
hooks - 17.25/0
crosses - 16/0
combo - 24/0
uppercut - 16.75/0

the game rated him a 7.
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Old 01-01-2004, 10:53 AM   #29
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Thanks, Rasmuth. Much appreciated.
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---Mark (vistaman44)
http://www.fistication.blogspot.com/

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-01-2004, 03:14 PM   #30
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Post Two WWII flyweights

In creating my universe I found the game had just 14 flyweights who fought from 1940 through 1950, so I had to create some opponents for them to flesh out the division. I have to admit it is a bit more difficult to rate fighters in the bantamweight and flyweight divisions because there are fewer already in the game to use for comparative purposes, but here are two who have play tested pretty close to their actual results.

Ed "Bunty" Doran of Ireland fought 1938-53 as a fly and bantam, posting a 77-20-4 record with 43 KOs. BoxRec 024146, born 1921-12-16. He was 3-6 against fighters in the game. Wins came against champion Jackie Paterson in a non-title bout and Theo Medina twice. Losses were to Peter Kane twice, Joe Curran, Rinty Monaghan, Peter Keenan and Vic Toweel. He also won against contemporary contenders Jimmy Gill, Norman Lewis and Johnny Summers, split with Teddy Gardner and Stan Rowan, and lost to Guido Ferracin, Sammy Reynolds and Danny O'Sullivan.

Slugger/occaisonally
CFB/S 9/10
HP 7
CKD 3
CKO 3
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 6
AGG 7
END 9
DEF 0
FS 1
OR 3
DP 3
CON 3
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 2
CU 3
GK 2
CLI 65
Punches
J 19/4
H 15/4
CR 15/4
CB 16/4
UC 16/4
PL 38
CP 34
PM 62
Rate 5

Title claimant Jackie Jurich of California posted a 60-13-7 record with 8 KOs, 1935-46. He fought at flyweight until moving up late in his career. BoxRec 000015, born 1918. He was 7-9-3 against TBCB-ranked fighters. Wins against fighters in the game include Little Dado twice, Luis Castillo, Small Montana (three) and Little Pancho. He drew with Dado (twice) and Montana. Losses were to Manuel Ortiz (three), Dado (two), Benny Lynch, Lou Salica, Pancho and Peter Kane. He also beat era contenders Johnny Juliano, Star Frisco and Kenny Lindsay, and split with Lupe Cardoza.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 11/10
HP 4
CKD 2
CKO 2
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 4
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -2
FS 1
OR 1
DP 3
CON 1
INT 8
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 1
CU 2
GK 3
CLI 65
Punches
J 25/3
H 14/2
CR 15/2
CB 20/2
UC 15/2
PL 40
CP 38
PM 60
Rate 8

Enjoy!
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---Mark (vistaman44)
http://www.fistication.blogspot.com/

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Last edited by vistaman44; 01-01-2004 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 01-01-2004, 04:31 PM   #31
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Using the Trunzo punching power formula Doran would be at (5) and Juricn (1).
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Old 01-01-2004, 05:09 PM   #32
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Jofre;
That's true, and I appreciate your comments. The thing about it is that Jurich beat two 8s and a 9 in his career, and has almost no chance to do so without increasing his HP, leaving his other ratings as realistic as possible. After play-testing him against the other fighters in the division/era, he consistently lost to the 8/9 overall guys until I bumped the HP.

Doran may be a little high, but he fought a lot of the era's contenders and was pretty consistent after his beginner stage.

Not every fighter's career fits the formula. These are just my estimations, and people are obviously welcome to use them as a starting point and tweak them to their own opinions and specifications. That's one of the great things about the game!

I would be open to suggestions as to how to make light hitters more competitive in other ways if you've got any to share. It just seemed in Jurich's case 11/10 was the max in CF, so bumping the HP seemed the next best choice.

Love to hear from Jim on this, too.
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---Mark (vistaman44)
http://www.fistication.blogspot.com/

"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Currently operating 1970s SM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes

Last edited by vistaman44; 01-01-2004 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:04 PM   #33
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Mark, when you set his CF to 11/10 did it accomplish what you wanted? If yes, then that makes more sense than increasing his HP IMO. It really is a trial and error process to get as accurate a simulation as possible.
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:50 PM   #34
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I know Jim's article on rating fighters says that it is a problem making light hitters as competitive as they were in real life. I believe he suggests bumping up the CFs as high as necessary. The question would be whether an HP of 4 would raise the KOs to unrealistic levels. I guess that's something that can only be resolved by playtesting. Rating fighters is a very interesting topic to me and I think we'll all get better at it with practice. As it stands, my vote would be with Mark. You need HP better than 1 to get the 4 pt punches you have to have to win decisions against good fighters. I would rather have too many KOs than too many decisions going the wrong way.
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Old 01-02-2004, 09:09 AM   #35
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Yes, Jofre. I started with him at 9/8 CF, which I thought was about right, but he kept losing unanimous decisions or getting KO'd late against fighters ranked 8 or better. Then I tried 10/9 and he managed one split decision out of 20 bouts. 11/10 also didn't make a significant difference. That's when I started bumping up the HP.

Swampdragon, that is what I'm looking for is win/loss accuracy against actual foes. I figure unless we put in a whole bunch of journeymen and generic beginners, the records and KOs won't be accurate. I just want them to be capable of beating the people they're supposed to.

I don't want to take sides. I'm just seeking a solution for the light hitters to give them a chance without making them 15/15.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-02-2004, 09:51 AM   #36
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this may not mean much...but who actually cares about the numeric ratings if they are providing accurate results (results that seem to be in line). There are great fighters with 50-30 records who fought all the top-flight competition of their era and not so-greats who compiled 23-2 records fighting nothing more than glorified amatuers.

If your getting accurate results within the parameters that we can test...thats about all we can do. Move on and rate more!
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:19 AM   #37
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Bump to keep on first page ...

Will post some 1930-50 smaller guys this evening. Anyone else got some more? Let's keep it going!
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-05-2004, 06:05 PM   #38
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No relation.

<b><font size=3>Spug Myers</b></font>
Junior Welterweight
b. 1903-01-02
d. 1979-11-18
Home: Pocatello, Ida.
Trainer: Spider Roach
Career, 1919-34
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=050355" target="_blank">Record</a>: 69-28-23 (26)

Style: Slugger
Fouls occasionally

CFB/S 7/8
HP 2
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 3
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 6
AGG 8
END 9
DEF 4
FS 1
OR 2
DP 1
CON 3
INT 6
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 2
CU 1
GK 2
CLI 72
Punches
J 20.5/1.25
H 20.5/1.25
CR 20.5/1.25
CB 15/1
UC 17.5/1.25
PL 36
CP 34
PM 64
Rate 4

Myers, who started boxing professionally when he was still in high school, fought Mushy Callahan for the junior welterweight title in 1927, and lost on points in ten rounds. He had defeated Callahan over the same distance just three months before, but the championship was not on the line.

Myers got to the championship bout by defeating Billy Alger, Lou Paluso, Russie Leroy, and Sid Barbarian, and by fighting Billy Petrolle and Tommy Freeman to no-decisions.

The title shot marked the pinnacle of Myers's career. After that he started losing with some regularity, although to good fighters--Callahan, Petrolle, Stanislaus Loayza, Sammy Mandell, Jackie (Kid) Berg, Manuel Quintero.

I have no idea what the nickname "Spug" means. One newspaper writer, detailing his victory over Barbarian, said that Myers "was true to the tenets of the society for the preservation of useless giving, represented by his nickname and made the blows he gave count."
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:23 PM   #39
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Spug ... Now there's one I missed! Kudos on some interesting background, David. Thanks.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Old 01-05-2004, 11:34 PM   #40
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As promised, here is fly/bantam Star Frisco, born in the Philippines and fought in the U.S., 1932-38. He weighed 111-115 and posted a 14-13-3 record with one KO. Was never knocked out or TKO'd. Defeated champion Small Montana, but lost Little Dado and title claimant Jackie Jurich. Defeated bantam title claimant Mickey Miller twice, lost to Umio Gen and defeated Lew Farber in other notable fights.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 8/7
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 1
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF 0
FS 2
OR 2
DP 1
CON 2
INT 5
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 1
CU 2
GK 4
CLI 68
Punches
J 24/0
H 17/0
CR 23/0
CB 19/0
UC 17/0
PL 38
CP 36
PM 64
Rate 5
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---Mark (vistaman44)
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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