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Old 12-29-2003, 09:35 PM   #1
David Myers
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New Non-HW Boxers Rated

It would be better to have a separate thread for new fighters from the lower weight classes.

Here is the first:

<b><font size=3>Rene DeVos</b></font>
"Little Fox"
Middleweight
Belgium
b. 1902-05-02
Career, 1917-34
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=017902" target="_blank">Record</a>: 156-25-25 (56)

Style: Either
Fouls occasionally

CFB/S 11/11
HP 2
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 3
KI 7
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -4
FS 1
OR 3
DP 4
CON 5
INT 9
PRF 10
FI 2
FO 2
CU 2
GK 2
CLI 70
Punches
J 25/0
H 19/1
CR 19/1
CB 18/1
UC 15/1
PL 40
CP 42
PM 62
Rate 9

DeVos was one of the greatest European middleweights of all time. He defeated Bruno Fattini of Italy for the European title in 1926, and defended it a couple of times before coming to America to fight the next year. Lew Burston, who also discovered Pete Sanstol, brought him to the States.

DeVos won a unanimous ten-round decision from Dave Shade in 1928 as part of an elimination tournament for the right to meet Mickey Walker--he won two out of three matches with Shade during his career--but he dropped a decision to Ace Hudkins at Madison Square Garden in the tourney's next bracket. (Hudkins then lost to Walker on points in 1929.) Even so, the New York <i>Times</i> described him that year as the leading contender for the middleweight crown.

By the thirties, though, DeVos was in decline. Returning to Europe, he lost to Marcel Thil and twice to Gustave Roth--the second time by knockout, ending his career.
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Last edited by David Myers; 12-30-2003 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:14 PM   #2
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<b><font size=3>Archie Bell</b></font>
Bantamweight
United States
b. 1905-11-12
d. 1988-04-15
Career, 1923-33
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=010084" target="_blank">Record</a>: 54-22-8 (7)

Style: Boxer
Fouls occasionally

CFB/S 11/12
HP 1
CKD 2
CKO 0
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 4
AGG 4
END 10
DEF -4
FS 3
OR 3
DP 2
CON 3
INT 10
PRF 10
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
GK 1
CLI 72
Punches
J 27/0
H 19/0
CR 19/0
CB 24/0
UC 11/0
PL 34
CP 38
PM 59
Rate 7

Archie Bell was a leading bantamweight contender in the late twenties, after Charley Phil Rosenberg had surrendered the crown for showing up overweight for a fight. One of the fine Jewish boxers of the era--his real name was Archie Sapon--he lost two different bantamweight title bouts. Teddy Baldock outpointed him in London in May 1927, and Pete Sanstol won a unanimous decision from him four years later.

An account of his meeting with Sanstol, including a photo of Bell, is <a href="http://www.geocities.com/boxofdaylight/Bell.htm" target="_blank">here</a>.

After losing to Sanstol, Bell dropped decisions to Newsboy Brown, Johnny Pena, and Baby Arizmendi (twice). Then he hung up the gloves. He was never knocked out.

Last edited by David Myers; 12-30-2003 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:28 PM   #3
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David;
Good idea to split off from the big boys so these boxers don't get lost.
Good info on a couple of very interesting contenders. I will definitely add those two, also. Will have a couple more for you tomorrow, Thanks.
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:31 PM   #4
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Good work and thank you. Those are very poor conditioning ratings for such good fighters. Is there a story behind that?
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:41 PM   #5
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Caught my mistake. I doggedly copied out the ratings I was using for my thirties replay, in which DeVos and Bell are aging and becoming inconsistent.

The condition ratings should be 5 for DeVos--he had a reputation for enjoying the beach more than the gym--and 3 for Bell. I've changed them above to reflect these improvements.
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Last edited by David Myers; 12-30-2003 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 12-29-2003, 11:55 PM   #6
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Because of the emphasis on HWs in the game, there are many major contenders not in the game from the lower weight divisions. This thread will help fill the gaps. These ratings are coming quickly enough where the ratings threads aren't threatening to drop off page 1, but I think it might still be a good idea for the moderators to sticky them at some point.
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Old 12-30-2003, 09:50 AM   #7
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Or OOTP Developments might include an Add-On page at the <a href="http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/tb/" target="_blank">TBCB website</a>.
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Old 12-30-2003, 12:01 PM   #8
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Thanks for starting up this other thread David for the other Non-HW's. A good idea!

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Old 12-30-2003, 12:50 PM   #9
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I am going to move some of the non-heavies over here from Rocco's original "New HW Boxers Rated" thread.
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Old 12-30-2003, 01:00 PM   #10
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Here is Al McCoy, as rated by djday45:

<b><font size=3>Al McCoy</b></font>
Middleweight
Southpaw
United States
b. 1894-10-23
d. 1966-08-22
Career, 1909-24
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=010530" target="_blank">Record</a>: 43-9-17 (25)

Style: Slugger
Fouls occasionally

CF Boxers - 9
CF Sluggers - 11
HP - 4
Chin Knockdown - 2
Chin Knockout - 1
Recovery - 3
Res Cuts - 1
Absorb Punish - 2
KI - 6
Agg - 9
End - 9
Def - +2
FS - 0
FR - 2
DP - 3
Cond - 1
Int - 6
Prof - 10
FI - 3
FO - 1
CU - 1
KO - 2
PL - 38
CP - 36
PM - 64
Clinch - 73
Jab 2 - 19.5
Jab 3 - 1.5
Hook 2 - 20.75
Hook 3 - 9.25
Cross 2 - 22.5
Cross 3 - 1.5
Comb 2 - 10
Comb 3 - 0
Upp 2 - 13
Upp 3 - 2
Overall rating - 5

Born Alexander Rudolph, he changed his name to the more <i>goyishe</i>-sounding "Al McCoy" when he debuted (at fourteen!) to hide from his parents, who--like most Jewish parents--dreamed that their son would be a <i>talmud hahem</i> rather than a title holder.
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Old 12-30-2003, 01:35 PM   #11
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Cool An oldtime featherweight contender

Here are my rankings for Frankie "Kid" Covelli, a featherweight contender from Brooklyn, N.Y., 1930-40, BoxRec 009564, who weighed 116-129 and posted a 62-35-16 record with 16 KOs, fighting all comers. He was 5-14-4 against fighters ranked in the game, but the wins came against such notables as Sixto Escobar, Willie Joyce, Jimmy Perrin, Al Roth and Petey Sarron. He drew twice each with Baby Arizmendi and Roth. Losses to fighters in the game included Henry Armstrong, Joyce, Leo Rodak, Perrin, Midget Wolgast, Freddie Miller, Mike Belloise, Jackie Wilson, Young Rightmire, Sarron, Petey Hayes, Sammy Angott, and to Petey Scalzo in his lone title shot. He also won against contemporary contenders Tommy Paul, Al Mancini, Umio Gen and Irv Eldridge; drew with Lew Feldman, Mickey Miller and Jack Rudko; and lost to Tony Chavez, Bobby Ruffin and Pablo Dano.
Only Scalzo and Hayes KO'd him in his prime.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 8/7
HP 5
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 3
CUTS 1
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 6
END 9
DEF -2
FS 1
OR 2
DP 3
CON 2
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 1
CU 2
GK 3
CLI 65
Punches
J 19/6
H 12/3
CR 18/5
CB 16/6
UC 12/3
PL 40
CP 36
PM 58
Rate 6
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
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Last edited by vistaman44; 12-30-2003 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 12-30-2003, 01:37 PM   #12
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Another middleweight rated by Dean:

<b><font size=3>Sumbu Kalambay</b></font>
Middleweight
Zaire
b. 1956-04-10
Career, 1980-93
<a href="http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001012" target="_blank">Record</a>: 57-6-1 (33)

Style: Boxer
Fouls seldom

CFB/S 13/13
HP 4
CKD 1
CKO 3
REC 1
CUTS 1
AP 2
KI 5
AGG 7
END 9
DEF -4
FS 2
FOR 1
DRAW 3
PL 42
CP 44
PMISS 62
CL 68
COND 2
INT 8
FI 1
FO 3
CU 2
KO 2
Jab 25.75/6.5
Hook 9.75/2.5
Cross 15.75/4.5
Comb 19/5.25
Upp 9/2
Overall rating 9
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:35 PM   #13
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Talking Someone wanted Soose with that?

When we were looking at the boxer list before the game was released, at least a couple people asked about Billy Soose, recognized by the New York State Athletic Commission as middleweight world champion for the duration of WWII in 1941. Soose beat Ken Overlin for the title in what was regarded at the time as a controversial decision. He never defended the title, and two fights later lost to nemesis Georgie Abrams. His career was over shortly thereafter.

For his career, Soose was 35-5-1 with 14 KOs, 1938-42, weighing 155-165. BoxRec 009965 Born 1917-08-02 and died 1998-09-05. To his credit, Soose defeated Overlin twice, Tami Mauriello, Tony Zale, Ernie Vigh twice, Eddie Risko and Paul Pirrone. He drew with Ceferino Garcia. He lost to Abrams three times, Jimmy Bivins and Charley Burley for an 8-5-1 record against fighters ranked by TBCB. He also defeated lightheavyweight contender Jimmy Reeves. Soose was never KO'd in his brief, controversial career.

Boxer/seldom
CFB/S 9/9
HP 7
CKD 1
CKO 0
REC 2
CUTS 2
AP 2
KI 7
AGG 7
END 9
DEF 0
FS 1
OR 2
DP 6
CON 2
INT 7
PRF 10
FI 2
FO 2
CU 2
GK 2
CLI 60
Punches
J 17/5
H 15/6
CR 14/3
CB 15/4
UC 15/6
PL 40
CP 36
PM 58
Rate 8

Enjoy!
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Last edited by vistaman44; 12-30-2003 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 12-30-2003, 02:51 PM   #14
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Mark,
Why wouldn't he get a KO of 0 if he was never KO'd. Also who's the guy in the hood.

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Old 12-30-2003, 03:24 PM   #15
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Unhappy Doh!

Good catch. Was typing over a copy of my format and didn't fix that one. It should be O. Edited the post to fix it.

The avatar is the first pro fighter I ever met or saw live ... (drumroll) Ron "The Bluffs Butcher" Stander. Colorful guy back in the day. Big win over Earnie Shavers, crushing loss to Smokin' Joe Frazier.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

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Currently operating 1970s SM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes

Last edited by vistaman44; 12-30-2003 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 12-30-2003, 07:00 PM   #16
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Soose is already in the game, with slightly different ratings (CFB/S of 11/11 for instance), but is shown as ending his career in 1942.
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Old 12-30-2003, 08:12 PM   #17
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No. 6;
They must have added him in the update. I didn't load that because I didn't want to overwrite the universe I already had going. I'd be interested to know how far off I am from the "official" rating for him. Could you e-mail me the rest of the differences or just post him? I'd like to refine what I'm doing to conform if I'm too far off. Thanks.

Oh, Soose did end his career in 1942 (it said 1938-42 in my post). His title win was in 1941.
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us."
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Old 12-30-2003, 08:42 PM   #18
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As several of us have said several times, it would be nice to get at least a list of the fighters who were added with the patch. Theoretically it is possible to create one. You have to export the database to html. Or, rather, you have to export <i>both</I> the old <i>and</i> the new databases, and then compare them. Which sounds easier than it is.

A list--a simple list--would be great. Then we wouldn't, as Mark just did, duplicate Jim's and Tom's and Dan's rating work.
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Last edited by David Myers; 12-30-2003 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 12-30-2003, 10:19 PM   #19
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OK guys, here's the Soose from the game/update

Either/Occasionally
CFB/S 11/11
HP 3
CKD 2
CKO 1
REC 1
CUTS 1
AP 1
KI 7
AGG 9
END 9
DEF 0
FS 1
OR 3
DP 4
CON 2
INT 8
PRF 10
FI 3
FO 2
CU 2
GK 2
CLI 70
Punches
J 22/0
H 18/1
CR 18/1
CB 20/1
UC 19/0
PL 40
CP 40
PM 60
Rate 9

At a glance he looks more skillfull, but less hard hitting than vistaman44's version.
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:44 AM   #20
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Thanks, Number 6. Now I don't have to reboot the game, copy down the ratings, and reboot again to enter them.
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