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Old 03-16-2016, 04:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
Not sure if a lot of people will agree on this.

But FHM will continue to give possibilities to alter the way you want to play. And it will be more options in FHM 3 then we have in FHM 2, so donīt worry.
I think a lot of people do agree with this. Too much trapping, too little scoring. One of the nice things about FHM is how easy I can crank scoring up by a goal a game.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:31 PM   #42
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Not sure how you think that is the case.

To quote Markus: "Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it."

And the survey shows this trend is even more extreme for FHM.
I don't know? Maybe start by counting the people in this very thread?
I counted nine excluding me. I guess that's half of the guys who left suggestions.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:41 PM   #43
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I don't know? Maybe start by counting the people in this very thread?
I counted nine excluding me. I guess that's half of the guys who left suggestions.
The only thing you can read out of this is that customize/fictional player are very loud. The survey and e.g. OOTP user stats show a much different picture with much, much higher numbers.

The thing is: the mass does not post here or on any other forum. As Markus wrote, they download the game, take their favorite team and just play.

The survey makes it very clear what people want, the user stats from OOTP make it very clear and with the limited resources we have, we will concentrate on that area. But again, we still will add to fictional/historical/customization, just not as fast as some people would like I guess.

Btw, most changes to the modern day to day game apply fully to fictional/historical as well.

Again, I just want to avoid frustration by some people, so I post honest about what we do and what we donīt do.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:48 PM   #44
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I don't know? Maybe start by counting the people in this very thread?
I counted nine excluding me. I guess that's half of the guys who left suggestions.
I dont know if it counts or not, but I like to be able to use a custom teams up to 5 or 6 in modern and historical modes...Thats what I always look for in sim games like FHM, I'm an old APBA player and still use that program because of the simplicity of it and yet it is quite accurate. I can add as many teams and or players very easily...and if I want to skew the parameters on players, the game responds to it...Is there a way to have the future FHM3 be more responsive to such adjustments?
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:59 PM   #45
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I dont know if it counts or not, but I like to be able to use a custom teams up to 5 or 6 in modern and historical modes...Thats what I always look for in sim games like FHM, I'm an old APBA player and still use that program because of the simplicity of it and yet it is quite accurate. I can add as many teams and or players very easily...and if I want to skew the parameters on players, the game responds to it...Is there a way to have the future FHM3 be more responsive to such adjustments?
I donīt know APBA but simulates it more then just the NHL? When you add teams in FHM, you have to account for the farm teams, so you have to edit the AHL and ECHL as well, you need new schedules (and schedule generator are really, really hard to accomplish), the player pool is not enough anymore, so you have to account for that as well, more teams means more games, so your schedule becomes longer. But what about events after the season, is there still enough time for it? Add in international tournaments like the Olympics or World Cup and it becomes a nightmare.

Thatīs what I try to explain: adding teams is simple but everything that depends on this change is not easy at all, especially if you simulate not just one league but hundreds (and 20+ of them playable).

And if we have to decide between two big new features (and I pick random, not that I promise them for FHM 3 ), let`s say international teams + tournaments and more customization (in fictional leagues or in the modern game which becomes fictional then) and we have only time for one, then we have to think which of the two will make more people happy. Hopefully, at some point in the future, we can add another coder to the game, then it will be a different story but until then we have to make hard decisions based on the best results for us.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:07 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
Not sure if a lot of people will agree on this.

But FHM will continue to give possibilities to alter the way you want to play. And it will be more options in FHM 3 then we have in FHM 2, so donīt worry.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:10 PM   #47
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I don't know? Maybe start by counting the people in this very thread?
I counted nine excluding me. I guess that's half of the guys who left suggestions.
It's more exciting starting a league from scratch rather than have everything that's already done and just play out the games.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:07 PM   #48
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Easier to add uniforms like the OOTP series with "home" and "away" jersey options.

"Assign fictional name" like OOTP has in the player editor.
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Old 03-16-2016, 07:35 PM   #49
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What I said: OOTP is good (no question here), as are other great games out there. We will work in our own ideas, take whatever makes sense from OOTP and combine it with ideas from other games around (e.g. FM, one of my favorite games in the world).

The only thing I want people to understand is that fictional play is something only a very minor group of people uses. They are important to us and we will add to that mode with every new version but we have only limited resources and of course we have to use the majority of time for stuff that the majority of user wants.
I would say (without knowing completely on my end, of course) is that this may be only half true. What I mean by that is my own playing experiences with OOTP....I start out with whatever year the game is released in (OOTP 16.....I started out with the real MLB in 2016)....but as I simmed into the future many years and decades it basically became a fictional league through expansion and realignment with a real MLB history up to and including 2016 and then picking up where I started. Perhaps a lot of people play like that.......????

I tried to do the same with FHM3 but after 20 or so seasons I found it difficult because it was almost the same season year after year...same point totals for players or numbers for goalies....no fluctuation or "era's", if you will. So I ended up mostly doing historical replays. Even starting out with a fictional league in FHM3 was tough because I knew it was gonna be the same thing basically all the time no matter what I tried to change. Still a good game....but that's just an honest critique.

One of the key things about OOTP is the options offered....that's also one of the reason in the baseball video game world why MLB: The Show is outstanding......options.

And I think when people are comparing OOTP to FHM3 or referencing OOTP when making suggestions for FHM3 they basically only want the same thing: options. Granted, they all can't be implemented at once...I understand that, hopefully others, too....but in the long run the ability for personal customization sets OOTP apart from other similar games for the better. I would say it would and will be the same with FHM.
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Old 03-16-2016, 08:14 PM   #50
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I know I'm one of those minority fictional players, too. It's my favourite thing about this game that EHM didn't have and it's the main draw for me. So I would love seeing it improved, even if that's just from simple trickle down effect based on modern getting fixed.

Primarily I would love to see the schedule editor option like people mentioned for fictional. As in not being forced to use a pre-determined real world league's schedule and structure, because that doesn't make a lot of sense in some cases. Like how in my game I have a 22-team league, but I noticed two teams in one division only faced each other twice, and yet they played an out of conference opponent up to 5 times. That alone is confusing to me with no way of fixing it.

Would also like being able to easily modify the league structure, which can be applied to both modes. If I want to balance out the divisions or re-arrange things after expansion, it should be easier than having to rename the teams swapping places and move all their players. Plus speaking of expansion, making it possible to have the minor leagues expand when the pro league does in fictional. I know it's different from how modern's expansion works but it still doesn't sound logical that the new teams would have no minor league affiliate. I haven't tested to see what happens, but that's based on what I've heard.

Other than that, I can't really think of much else I was really wanting, or at least things not mentioned. Any fixes to trading and roster management or general presentation would be welcomed, of course, but I got nothing specific to request in regards to those. I'm looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with and manage to put in during the next game all the same, hoping it is a big improvement.
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Old 03-16-2016, 10:04 PM   #51
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I donīt know APBA but simulates it more then just the NHL? When you add teams in FHM, you have to account for the farm teams, so you have to edit the AHL and ECHL as well, you need new schedules (and schedule generator are really, really hard to accomplish), the player pool is not enough anymore, so you have to account for that as well, more teams means more games, so your schedule becomes longer. But what about events after the season, is there still enough time for it? Add in international tournaments like the Olympics or World Cup and it becomes a nightmare.

Thatīs what I try to explain: adding teams is simple but everything that depends on this change is not easy at all, especially if you simulate not just one league but hundreds (and 20+ of them playable).

And if we have to decide between two big new features (and I pick random, not that I promise them for FHM 3 ), let`s say international teams + tournaments and more customization (in fictional leagues or in the modern game which becomes fictional then) and we have only time for one, then we have to think which of the two will make more people happy. Hopefully, at some point in the future, we can add another coder to the game, then it will be a different story but until then we have to make hard decisions based on the best results for us.
No, APBA has no minor system or contracts or anything like that..It's a very old simulator from the 90's. It's actually a DOS game, so that should give you an idea of the simplicity of it. They have a board version also. It's possible to create a whole new league with new and existing teams, but there isn't any GM's in the fashion of FHM, or any other GM style sims. You can however coach. I do see the dilemma though, I hadn't considered the need to create players and teams and schedules underneath the custom NHL team one would make, or vice versa. I'm sure whatever you come up with will be good
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:21 PM   #52
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In terms of customized playoffs, I've been working on a system originally intended for OOTP, but one that ought to be adaptable to FHM (and BTS for that matter).

I deliberately designed the system to be able to recreate as many real-world playoff formats as possible, be they hockey, baseball, football, basketball, or other. Want a round-robin for some of the playoffs? That could be done in the system I envision. Want a double-elimination type of playoffs? It'd be doable. And that's just scratching the surface. (Even the sometimes funky ECHL playoff formats of the past could be duplicated.)

Now, it must be said, it is more of an 'advanced' user feature, but from my (fairly extensive) thinking on the subject, to get true playoff customization requires going that route.


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The only thing I want people to understand is that fictional play is something only a very minor group of people uses. They are important to us and we will add to that mode with every new version but we have only limited resources and of course we have to use the majority of time for stuff that the majority of user wants.
I have often said the following in regards to OOTP, and I think it applies here as well: there is a considerable amount of crossover in terms features in fictional, current-day, and historical play. That is, features added for historical can also easily be of benefit to fictional play; features added for fictional play can be of benefit to current-day and historical play; and so forth. It isn't necessarily either-or.

(I'm still much more of a baseball guy, so my knowledge of FHM is rather limited, though I do try to keep tabs on developments. But, for example, if fictional leagues could support all the actual league alignments of past and current real-world hockey leagues, that alone adds a huge number of potential league arrangements. It may not be as good as total freedom, but it still would add a lot. And it benefits historical play as well, since those alignments would be needed. See my earlier point about crossover.)
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:04 AM   #53
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Wish #5: Keep the scouting system as a whole, but make improvements to how regions are handled (and fix the lack of scouts for Quebec). For the love of god, don't implement the horrible "e-z mode" scouting that OOTP has. It's one of the worst and laziest aspects of that game, and following the FM model of actually having scouts with specializations and knowledge is a far more interesting way to go. Having one 'scouting director' who miraculously has knowledge of every baseball player on the planet and an accurate view of his mental attributes is absolutely ludicrous, so please don't go down that path.
100% signed.

For gods sake, donīt water down scouting, make it more complex.

This is one of the most important aspects of the game, so the complexity should reflect that
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:09 AM   #54
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100% signed.

For gods sake, donīt water down scouting, make it more complex.

This is one of the most important aspects of the game, so the complexity should reflect that
The general scouting system will stay the same, we will of course improve it in FHM 3. But we will not water it down, it is one of the systems I donīt like in OOTP but love in FM.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:25 AM   #55
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Please don't forget to add the ability to import FHM2 saves into FHM3. This is probably the most important item on my shopping list.
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Old 03-17-2016, 08:01 AM   #56
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I know I repeat myself but the average user does not care much about options. They just want to play the game.

But in one point a agree 100% with you: it is cool to have the world (or league you play, e.g. NHL) evolve over time, like it does in reality as well. Some (limited) options are already in FHM 2 (e.g. expansion) but it is very user-unfriendly. The goal in FHM 3 is to further enhance the area and have an (optional) "storymode" that actively changes the world around you (a league might do an expansion, equipment changes might raise/lower the offense level of a league, foreigner rules might change, teams might move, ...).

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Originally Posted by scootermojo View Post
I would say (without knowing completely on my end, of course) is that this may be only half true. What I mean by that is my own playing experiences with OOTP....I start out with whatever year the game is released in (OOTP 16.....I started out with the real MLB in 2016)....but as I simmed into the future many years and decades it basically became a fictional league through expansion and realignment with a real MLB history up to and including 2016 and then picking up where I started. Perhaps a lot of people play like that.......????

I tried to do the same with FHM3 but after 20 or so seasons I found it difficult because it was almost the same season year after year...same point totals for players or numbers for goalies....no fluctuation or "era's", if you will. So I ended up mostly doing historical replays. Even starting out with a fictional league in FHM3 was tough because I knew it was gonna be the same thing basically all the time no matter what I tried to change. Still a good game....but that's just an honest critique.

One of the key things about OOTP is the options offered....that's also one of the reason in the baseball video game world why MLB: The Show is outstanding......options.

And I think when people are comparing OOTP to FHM3 or referencing OOTP when making suggestions for FHM3 they basically only want the same thing: options. Granted, they all can't be implemented at once...I understand that, hopefully others, too....but in the long run the ability for personal customization sets OOTP apart from other similar games for the better. I would say it would and will be the same with FHM.
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Old 03-17-2016, 08:27 AM   #57
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Online league improvements with HTML reports I think is a must.
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Old 03-17-2016, 09:07 AM   #58
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-During trades, suggestions from the other team on who they would like. Also, an option to offer a couple different players and ask the other team to pick one.
-Ability to moves teams around, rearange the divisions. (This was in FHM1, sad to see it go)
-Comparison screens for players, so we can see head to head which is the better choice.
-A quicker way to check the playoffs. Right now, I like to see how the playoffs are progressing, but I have to hit three different buttons to get to it. When I get inturupted by an email, it's just more clicking to have to get back to it.
+1 especially the playoffs mode jump

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A real training camp where coaches can work with players on specific skills (when necessary), general skills, tactics skills (learning the system) or perhaps learn a new position.
AHL training camp should start near the end of NHL training camp so players who are cut have a place to go.
Organization prospect reports during the season, especially from guys in juniors or overseas. I wouldn't mind tying this in as a scouting function.
Directed player development for non-roster prospects. I drafted this guy, but I want him to work on his (______) this season.
Let me see how different scouts evaluate the same players.
+1 understand that the training camp model may be difficult to implement at the just right temperature

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Wish #2: Assistant GM
Features: Essentially, a minion to offload a lot of your grunt work to. Depth chart of your own team; depth chart of all teams in the league; minor league affiliate report (player X should be promoted, player Y should be demoted); trade target finder (give parameters for what type of player you want, AGM populates a list for you).
Wish #3: Director of Player Personnel
Features: If the player chooses to enable this option, this person directs all scouting efforts around the world (the idea is that this is the "realistic" solution for people who don't want to spend time scouting, rather than just a button-click at the bottom of the window). The DPP automatically assigns scouts to regions and leagues, and is largely responsible for collecting and presenting scout reports to the GM. The DPP can be provided with general parameters (scout only players of certain age range, focus on amateur scouting, focus on professional leagues, etc) to guide them. This person should also be able to present a new type of report to the GM-- the "over/under-rated report" would give the GM better insight into which players are better or worse than their current attributes might show.
Wish #5: Keep the scouting system as a whole, but make improvements to how regions are handled (and fix the lack of scouts for Quebec). For the love of god, don't implement the horrible "e-z mode" scouting that OOTP has. It's one of the worst and laziest aspects of that game, and following the FM model of actually having scouts with specializations and knowledge is a far more interesting way to go. Having one 'scouting director' who miraculously has knowledge of every baseball player on the planet and an accurate view of his mental attributes is absolutely ludicrous, so please don't go down that path.
Wish #6: Add a "Ability to Sign" category to the scout report for each player-- I expanded on this in this thread, and I think it would add a lot of realism to the 'Russian factor' aspect of drafting.
+1. some overlap with my post the other day but I really like the trade target finder

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Easier to add uniforms like the OOTP series with "home" and "away" jersey options.
+1 ...for FHM4 though LOL

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Please don't forget to add the ability to import FHM2 saves into FHM3. This is probably the most important item on my shopping list.
+1 big time. would be a big disappointment if they didnt


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Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
But in one point a agree 100% with you: it is cool to have the world (or league you play, e.g. NHL) evolve over time, like it does in reality as well. Some (limited) options are already in FHM 2 (e.g. expansion) but it is very user-unfriendly. The goal in FHM 3 is to further enhance the area and have an (optional) "storymode" that actively changes the world around you (a league might do an expansion, equipment changes might raise/lower the offense level of a league, foreigner rules might change, teams might move, ...).
+1 on storymode. So long as there's not an option for there to be a team in 2116 to be nothing but Theo Fleury clones, I'm good.
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Old 03-17-2016, 09:58 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Orioles1966 View Post
a.) schedule editor plus the ability to schedule neutral site games(OOTP doesn't have this function).

b.) larger fictional leagues

c.) more expansion teams

d.) custom playoffs

e.)move teams from one league too another/move teams to another division/conference in same league

f.) add fictional league(s) to real world NHL

g.) add real world NHL to custom world


I would like to second all these suggestions plus:

-the ability to add minor leagues/ college feeder leagues to an already existing fictional league(including the stock NCAA league already in the game made playable).

-the ability to import and continue FHM2 games
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Old 03-18-2016, 12:42 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
The only thing you can read out of this is that customize/fictional player are very loud. The survey and e.g. OOTP user stats show a much different picture with much, much higher numbers.

The thing is: the mass does not post here or on any other forum. As Markus wrote, they download the game, take their favorite team and just play.

The survey makes it very clear what people want, the user stats from OOTP make it very clear and with the limited resources we have, we will concentrate on that area. But again, we still will add to fictional/historical/customization, just not as fast as some people would like I guess.

Btw, most changes to the modern day to day game apply fully to fictional/historical as well.

Again, I just want to avoid frustration by some people, so I post honest about what we do and what we donīt do.
Out of curiosity what is the split between fictional / historical / modern for FHM?

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