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OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA. |
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01-13-2020, 12:29 PM | #21 | |
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You might be referring to this video that made the rounds a little while back. MLB should have better technology than the Atlantic League has, but I also think we'll have to adjust our idea of the strike zone. The stupid box that's shown on television broadcasts conditions us to view the strike zone as a flat, two-dimensional rectangle. In truth, the strike zone is a three-dimensional rectangle and the computer is going to pick up pitches that clip the very front or very back (and occasionally the sides) of that rectangle that we think are way out of the strike zone because of what we're used to seeing displayed on that awful 2-D box. |
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01-13-2020, 12:42 PM | #22 | |
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I get your point that OOTP is not rewarding catchers in the WAR statistic for their defensive contributions. I'm just not sure pitch framing and "game calling" are the right factors to look at. For instance, Sundberg put up 25.3 dWAR (per Baseball-Reference) while playing in an era that didn't track pitch framing. So what did he do to earn that 25.3 dWAR, and are those things currently used by OOTP to give defensive value to catchers? |
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01-13-2020, 01:33 PM | #23 | |
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Zone Rating, in real life, uses batted ball locations I don't think, but I'm not sure, that the game tracks batted balls. So, if they can fake Zone Rating, by, likely, giving better defensive players a higher probability of a high Zone Rating, then they can fake a pitch framing metric in the same way. The question, then, obviously, is how useful is it if it's faked. |
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01-13-2020, 01:38 PM | #24 | ||
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He's a very good pitch framer But not nearly as good at preventing wild pitches and passed balls Those are two separate skills OOTP blends them Quote:
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01-13-2020, 01:49 PM | #25 | |
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You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't deny that pitch framing is a big aspect of real baseball. But it measures an aspect of real baseball - pitch location - that currently doesn't exist in OOTP. You can't measure something that doesn't exist. And providing a fake measurement, as you allude to above, would be misleading and pointless. |
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01-13-2020, 02:02 PM | #26 |
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Really the only metric necessary would be a Catcher BB/K ratio. From my understanding this is what the catcher impacts the most.
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01-13-2020, 02:28 PM | #27 | |||
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Just balls have a higher probability of being an out with better defenders Same with good defensive catchers Plate appearances are more likely to end up as strike outs and less likely to end up as walks It seems like a very similar mechanism to what is used for defensive ratings could be used for pitch framing. Quote:
Though, maybe that's not the best word. I mean, the hits, outs, etc are all fake too... Maybe better to say "inferred" Last edited by CBeisbol; 01-13-2020 at 02:30 PM. |
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01-13-2020, 02:30 PM | #28 |
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Not exactly, because it doesn't account for the quality of the pitcher nor of the park factors (nor league settings if you're comparing across leagues)
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01-13-2020, 02:40 PM | #29 | |
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01-13-2020, 02:43 PM | #30 | |
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We do also generate pitch locations, which aren't 100% cosmetic, but would agree they're not really suitable right now for a framing metric. I wouldn't want to add a catcher framing metric where the catcher literally was given 5% (or whatever) credit for each strikeout, but also obviously I don't want to "lie" in a metric and tell you something that's not true. So yeah, it's a hard problem. |
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01-13-2020, 02:50 PM | #31 |
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I didn't know that. I stand corrected. Did this change in the last few versions? Or has there always been pitch locations that mattered in some form?
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01-13-2020, 03:03 PM | #32 |
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Big Easy: Fangraphs already has stats for framing, and incorporates them into their WAR calculations. See here:
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/war-update-catcher-framing/ https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-pitch-framing/ So I'm sure it can be incorporated into OOTP. All it would be is adding a quantifying stat to something that is already happening in the game. It doesn't matter that there's no pitch locations, there's still the affected K/BB rates. I'm envisioning a line occurring in the play-by-play for a called strikeout affected by a defensive catcher: "The catcher really had soft hands there!" Anyway I'd think that properly assigning value/WAR to the right players is something we can all get behind. EDIT: From Matt Arnold's above comment perhaps it isn't as simple as I'm thinking. I suspect Catcher Ability is thrown into the blender for a plate appearance outcome, and isn't necessarily the reason for any given strikeout or walk. It could push it over the top in some dice rolls I suppose, but that might be hard to record as a stat. Last edited by Argonaut; 01-13-2020 at 03:06 PM. |
01-13-2020, 03:03 PM | #33 | |
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FWIW though https://www.closecallsports.com/sear...ic+strike+zone
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01-13-2020, 03:52 PM | #34 | |
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My point (which Matt clarified) has always been that there are no pitch locations in OOTP that are useful enough to make measuring pitch framing in OOTP a worthwhile endeavor. What you think is happening in the game actually isn't. I explained it every way I could, but apparently I'm not very good at explaining it. Hopefully Matt's post puts this to rest. |
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01-13-2020, 05:04 PM | #35 | |
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There's no way, I don't think, for the user to measure this impact in a real game, only through tests like Argonaut did. The developers could certainly create some stat that reflects how catcher skill impacts run prevention in OOTP. We can see how defense ratings for other positions impact run prevention through zone rating. But there's nothing comparable for catchers |
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01-13-2020, 07:52 PM | #36 | |
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