Lets Talk about Defense Part 2 - The Upgrades - Page 2

Matt Arnold · 01-26-2019, 01:10 PM

Chone Figgins (or as my autocorrect apparently wants to call him, Chinese Diggins) could be another cheap option at 3b (or trained at 2b). Another no-power guy, but has a lot more speed than guys like Oquendo.

spleen1015 · 01-27-2019, 08:01 AM

Thanks for this thread and the other one, Maddox. It has inspired me to try to do the same thing and I am having a lot of success with it. I have 3 teams that I have made to be defense first, gap second. The teams have been successful this week. I should have 2 move to silver and 1 move to gold after this week.

Maddox · 01-27-2019, 09:34 AM

You're welcome. I am really enjoying the team. Enough so that I actually spent $10 to get a couple of players I wanted when they became available on the market.

I need to save up now because I would really like to try that 78 rated Ozzie Smith at 2B. He seems like he would be the perfect leadoff hitter in front of Keith Hernandez and Mike Trout. He could become something like a 112 rated 2B fully trained

pappyzan · 01-27-2019, 11:59 AM

Gold 83 Lindor is a good option as well. Not as much power as Diamond Lindor, but better defense and a little better Contact.

Joshrapley · 01-27-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

You're welcome. I am really enjoying the team. Enough so that I actually spent $10 to get a couple of players I wanted when they became available on the market.

I need to save up now because I would really like to try that 78 rated Ozzie Smith at 2B. He seems like he would be the perfect leadoff hitter in front of Keith Hernandez and Mike Trout. He could become something like a 112 rated 2B fully trained

I spent my own money to get Ozzie Smith this year for my D and GAP team, unreal defensively but had an average year with the bat at Silver.

I currently Lead Off with Royce Lewis and have trained him @ 2B. He has reached 75 and should max out at 80. Has contributed 5.2 and 5.5 WAR over two seasons @ Silver. Also, this year produced +4.7 ZR which of course should improve when he reaches 80 depending what level I am at. Finally he is quick and stole 44 bases this season for me.

Maddox · 01-27-2019, 12:33 PM

I am almost set here is my lineup and their positional rating at where I have them

C Molina (96)
1B Hernandez (79)
2B Oquendo (91)
SS Aparicio (110)
3B Buddy Bell (91)
LF Suzuki (102)
CF Trout (85)
RF McReynolds (117)

Ozzie Smith, If I can get him should provide me with a legitimate lead off hitter. Someone who should have a high OBP and can steal a few bases. And as a 2B he should reach a rating around 112. Aparicio and Suzuki can both steal bases but they both have bad Eye ratings so their OBP leaves something to be desired.

Kushiel · 01-27-2019, 12:57 PM

The Wiz is worth his weight in Perfects. I just hate that now I am seeing more of my competition wake up to the fact that a Silver is so good in Perfect Level.

Maddox · 01-28-2019, 11:07 AM

Trout underperformed for me in his few weeks with the team, and he fell flat in the bronze playoffs. Not the return you hope to see after splurging on a perfect player.

It will be interesting to see how he does during a full season in silver.

As far as the rest of the team I managed to snag pitcher of the year for the second straight year, I won three great glove awards and one great batter award. I don't think my other teams have ever won those with the exception of Adam Wainwright earning great glove at pitcher.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-28-2019, 11:18 AM

Garry Maddox won me a Gold Glove in Diamond. And acquiring him moved Trout to LF, where he proceeded to win a GG. Along with Victor Robles in RF, who somehow didn't win a GG, too, it was an insanely good defensive season for my OF. Good luck dropping a ball into that outfield grass.

NomarHits400 · 01-28-2019, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiel

The Wiz is worth his weight in Perfects. I just hate that now I am seeing more of my competition wake up to the fact that a Silver is so good in Perfect Level.

I actually think Andrelton Simmons is better. Admittedly not as high an OBP and SB- but he routinely hits 275-290 in DL with ZR's of 20+ every year and WAR of 3.5-5.5 all four seasons in DL....and he's alot cheaper.

Maddox · 01-28-2019, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

I actually think Andrelton Simmons is better. Admittedly not as high an OBP and SB- but he routinely hits 275-290 in DL with ZR's of 20+ every year and WAR of 3.5-5.5 all four seasons in DL....and he's alot cheaper.

I've looked at him before and may again but I am really hoping for a guy who can get on base at, preferably, a .350 or more clip to lead off and hopefully be on base for Hernandez, Trout and Albert Belle behind him.

We'll see how I earn points today. I won 2000 in post season awards overnight so I am about 5,000 away from Smiths price. Once I get him then I can start looking at some effective bullpen arms to fill out my bullpen.

NomarHits400 · 01-28-2019, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

I've looked at him before and may again but I am really hoping for a guy who can get on base at, preferably, a .350 or more clip to lead off and hopefully be on base for Hernandez, Trout and Albert Belle behind him.

We'll see how I earn points today. I won 2000 in post season awards overnight so I am about 5,000 away from Smiths price. Once I get him then I can start looking at some effective bullpen arms to fill out my bullpen.

Understood- and I think for your needs Smith is a better fit; just throwing him out there as a stop gap who hits better than Aparicio for around 700-800 PP who you can resell pretty easily if you need to as well.

chazzycat · 01-28-2019, 02:09 PM

Andrelton is fantastic and is definitely capable of a 350 OBP in his good BABIP years, but is not gonna happen every year. He doesn't walk or strike out much, so his production can swing pretty significantly from one year to next just from BABIP. The good years are pretty awesome. The bad years he still puts up 3 WAR from defense alone.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-28-2019, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

I actually think Andrelton Simmons is better. Admittedly not as high an OBP and SB- but he routinely hits 275-290 in DL with ZR's of 20+ every year and WAR of 3.5-5.5 all four seasons in DL....and he's alot cheaper.

Plus he can even play pretty high level OF, too.

Maddox · 01-28-2019, 05:02 PM

Of course I could just be biased towards Ozzie (life long Cardinal fan)

DonkeyKongSr · 01-28-2019, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

Of course I could just be biased towards Ozzie (life long Cardinal fan)

He is a much, much better on-base guy than Simba, plus a better runner, so Ozzie makes a much better lead-off. They are basically a wash for OPS, so for teams without a need for a leadoff guy, I'd pick Simmons for the extra defense and extra 10K PP in your pocket.

Kushiel · 01-28-2019, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

He is a much, much better on-base guy than Simba, plus a better runner, so Ozzie makes a much better lead-off. They are basically a wash for OPS, so for teams without a need for a leadoff guy, I'd pick Simmons for the extra defense and extra 10K PP in your pocket.

I will stick with the Wiz. I know for sure he can get me 4 WAR in Perfect. However my 2 FTP teams play with Simmons.

Maddox · 01-28-2019, 06:00 PM

I am weak. i got home and discovered the Smith card on the market for a 13,000 buy it now, which is about 2000 less than normal so I purchased $5 worth of points <looks ashamed> and purchased him. He starts his journey to become a 109 or so rated 2B any minute now.

Maddox · 01-28-2019, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

I am weak. i got home and discovered the Smith card on the market for a 13,000 buy it now, which is about 2000 less than normal so I purchased $5 worth of points <looks ashamed> and purchased him. He starts his journey to become a 109 or so rated 2B any minute now.

And after 7 games his OBP is lower than his average

Renfro · 02-01-2019, 02:27 AM

Just discovered this thread. I love it!

I'm doing something similar with one of my teams. My main goal when I started this about four seasons ago was to try to win all the Great Gloves. Three seasons ago I won 5 of them. But then I went down to 4 the next season, and 4 again the last season. Here's my starting lineup with notes:

RF Suzuki (Record Breaker) - This Suzuki won the GG twice, then I tried the Rookie Sensation Suzuki because he actually has better defense stats (95 def, 87 error to 87 def, 72 error) but he didn't win the GG so out he went.

3B Simmons - Trained him up one season and he came through with the GG last season. I had Beltre, whom I know can with the GG, but Simmons was going to be a sure shot. His 3B DEF gets all the way up to 117, surpassing his 103 SS.

2B Oquendo - You know about that guy. For me, he won the GG two years running, and then lost to ... Javier Baez??!? (And he uncharacteristically committed two errors in game 163 last season, each leading to runs, including the deciding one in extra-innings. And no, I'm not bitter --- he's still starting! --- but I did pick up a Nellie Fox as a backup).

DH Aaron Judge - One of two diamond players I pulled after about 50 or so packs. (I'm an f2p player.) Previous season I had Mel Ott in this position and might go back to him later since Judge is hitting .191 with 2 homers in 35 games.

C Tony Pena - He actually steals bases, too. 5 for 7 right now. Backup is Charles Johnson, but I ran with Johnson / Benito Santiago for a season or two. I've never won the GG for this position. But I know that Johnson and Pena won GGs for other teams in the past.

1B Brandon Belt - There were like 4 Brandon Belts in my league last season and while my Belt had better defensive stats and better offensive stats, one of the other Belts got the GG.

CF Kiermaier - He's won the GG each of the last three seasons.

LF Kevin Pillar - He won the GG for me last season. I had Willie Wilson three seasons ago and he won the GG then, as well as hitting safely for 32 games in a row (only earning 400 PP). But Wilson didn't win the next year so he got demoted since PIllar's DEF stats are so good.

SS Aparicio - Probably one of the most famous Bronze players, and with good reason. He, too, has won the GG three seasons running so I'm not touching that.

I think one thing to look for as you look for upgrades is the pitcher's HOLD rating. After 106 games this season, there's only been 36 SB attempts against my team. And half of them have been unsuccessful. That's tops in the league in both categories by far. (Well, one other team has a 46.2 CS%, but out of 91 SB attempts!)

In that regard, my ace is Patrick Corbin. He's 99 DEF and 94 HOLD. Then there's Greinke, at 100 DEF and 75 HOLD. Freeland, at 100 / 56 sported a 2.05 ERA three season ago. And so I thought I should get Groundball Pitchers like Freeland ... but then next season he went up to 3.25 ... but now he's back down to 2.39.

Your team's BABIP is another indication of how airtight your defense is. My team's BABIP is .245. 30 points lower than the next team.

The all-defense strategy is so much fun!!! And can lead to success.

The last two seasons we went 102-60 (playoffs, lost 2 games to 3 in the NLDS), and then 97-66 (lost 163 game in a stacked division), and now we are at 64-42 right now, looking to at least get a WC. I think the last three years we beat the MLB record for least errors by a team (65 by 2003 Mariners).

01-27-2019, 12:33 PM	#26
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	I am almost set here is my lineup and their positional rating at where I have them C Molina (96) 1B Hernandez (79) 2B Oquendo (91) SS Aparicio (110) 3B Buddy Bell (91) LF Suzuki (102) CF Trout (85) RF McReynolds (117) Ozzie Smith, If I can get him should provide me with a legitimate lead off hitter. Someone who should have a high OBP and can steal a few bases. And as a 2B he should reach a rating around 112. Aparicio and Suzuki can both steal bases but they both have bad Eye ratings so their OBP leaves something to be desired. Last edited by Maddox; 01-27-2019 at 12:36 PM.

01-27-2019, 12:57 PM	#27
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,697	The Wiz is worth his weight in Perfects. I just hate that now I am seeing more of my competition wake up to the fact that a Silver is so good in Perfect Level. __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

01-28-2019, 11:18 AM	#29
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	Garry Maddox won me a Gold Glove in Diamond. And acquiring him moved Trout to LF, where he proceeded to win a GG. Along with Victor Robles in RF, who somehow didn't win a GG, too, it was an insanely good defensive season for my OF. Good luck dropping a ball into that outfield grass. Attached Images

02-01-2019, 02:27 AM	#40
Renfro Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 197	All Defense Just discovered this thread. I love it! I'm doing something similar with one of my teams. My main goal when I started this about four seasons ago was to try to win all the Great Gloves. Three seasons ago I won 5 of them. But then I went down to 4 the next season, and 4 again the last season. Here's my starting lineup with notes: RF Suzuki (Record Breaker) - This Suzuki won the GG twice, then I tried the Rookie Sensation Suzuki because he actually has better defense stats (95 def, 87 error to 87 def, 72 error) but he didn't win the GG so out he went. 3B Simmons - Trained him up one season and he came through with the GG last season. I had Beltre, whom I know can with the GG, but Simmons was going to be a sure shot. His 3B DEF gets all the way up to 117, surpassing his 103 SS. 2B Oquendo - You know about that guy. For me, he won the GG two years running, and then lost to ... Javier Baez??!? (And he uncharacteristically committed two errors in game 163 last season, each leading to runs, including the deciding one in extra-innings. And no, I'm not bitter --- he's still starting! --- but I did pick up a Nellie Fox as a backup). DH Aaron Judge - One of two diamond players I pulled after about 50 or so packs. (I'm an f2p player.) Previous season I had Mel Ott in this position and might go back to him later since Judge is hitting .191 with 2 homers in 35 games. C Tony Pena - He actually steals bases, too. 5 for 7 right now. Backup is Charles Johnson, but I ran with Johnson / Benito Santiago for a season or two. I've never won the GG for this position. But I know that Johnson and Pena won GGs for other teams in the past. 1B Brandon Belt - There were like 4 Brandon Belts in my league last season and while my Belt had better defensive stats and better offensive stats, one of the other Belts got the GG. CF Kiermaier - He's won the GG each of the last three seasons. LF Kevin Pillar - He won the GG for me last season. I had Willie Wilson three seasons ago and he won the GG then, as well as hitting safely for 32 games in a row (only earning 400 PP). But Wilson didn't win the next year so he got demoted since PIllar's DEF stats are so good. SS Aparicio - Probably one of the most famous Bronze players, and with good reason. He, too, has won the GG three seasons running so I'm not touching that. I think one thing to look for as you look for upgrades is the pitcher's HOLD rating. After 106 games this season, there's only been 36 SB attempts against my team. And half of them have been unsuccessful. That's tops in the league in both categories by far. (Well, one other team has a 46.2 CS%, but out of 91 SB attempts!) In that regard, my ace is Patrick Corbin. He's 99 DEF and 94 HOLD. Then there's Greinke, at 100 DEF and 75 HOLD. Freeland, at 100 / 56 sported a 2.05 ERA three season ago. And so I thought I should get Groundball Pitchers like Freeland ... but then next season he went up to 3.25 ... but now he's back down to 2.39. Your team's BABIP is another indication of how airtight your defense is. My team's BABIP is .245. 30 points lower than the next team. The all-defense strategy is so much fun!!! And can lead to success. The last two seasons we went 102-60 (playoffs, lost 2 games to 3 in the NLDS), and then 97-66 (lost 163 game in a stacked division), and now we are at 64-42 right now, looking to at least get a WC. I think the last three years we beat the MLB record for least errors by a team (65 by 2003 Mariners).

01-26-2019, 01:10 PM	#21
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,136	Chone Figgins (or as my autocorrect apparently wants to call him, Chinese Diggins) could be another cheap option at 3b (or trained at 2b). Another no-power guy, but has a lot more speed than guys like Oquendo.

01-27-2019, 08:01 AM	#22
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,951	Thanks for this thread and the other one, Maddox. It has inspired me to try to do the same thing and I am having a lot of success with it. I have 3 teams that I have made to be defense first, gap second. The teams have been successful this week. I should have 2 move to silver and 1 move to gold after this week.

01-27-2019, 09:34 AM	#23
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	You're welcome. I am really enjoying the team. Enough so that I actually spent $10 to get a couple of players I wanted when they became available on the market. I need to save up now because I would really like to try that 78 rated Ozzie Smith at 2B. He seems like he would be the perfect leadoff hitter in front of Keith Hernandez and Mike Trout. He could become something like a 112 rated 2B fully trained

01-27-2019, 11:59 AM	#24
pappyzan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 637	Gold 83 Lindor is a good option as well. Not as much power as Diamond Lindor, but better defense and a little better Contact.

01-28-2019, 11:07 AM	#28
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	Trout underperformed for me in his few weeks with the team, and he fell flat in the bronze playoffs. Not the return you hope to see after splurging on a perfect player. It will be interesting to see how he does during a full season in silver. As far as the rest of the team I managed to snag pitcher of the year for the second straight year, I won three great glove awards and one great batter award. I don't think my other teams have ever won those with the exception of Adam Wainwright earning great glove at pitcher.

01-28-2019, 02:09 PM	#33
chazzycat All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,685	Andrelton is fantastic and is definitely capable of a 350 OBP in his good BABIP years, but is not gonna happen every year. He doesn't walk or strike out much, so his production can swing pretty significantly from one year to next just from BABIP. The good years are pretty awesome. The bad years he still puts up 3 WAR from defense alone.

01-28-2019, 05:02 PM	#35
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	Of course I could just be biased towards Ozzie (life long Cardinal fan)

01-28-2019, 06:00 PM	#38
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	I am weak. i got home and discovered the Smith card on the market for a 13,000 buy it now, which is about 2000 less than normal so I purchased $5 worth of points <looks ashamed> and purchased him. He starts his journey to become a 109 or so rated 2B any minute now.