HR distribution in my historic league

silentrob · 07-30-2011, 09:04 PM

Can anyone explain this? I've tried to set up a historic league starting from the early years of baseball, but with league totals based on the 1980s. The idea being that 19th century players are playing, but accumulating stats like players from the 1980s. Seems to be working OK except in distribution of HR. For some reason, starting pitchers allow them very rarely, but relief pitchers (regardless of their movement ratings, which are typically near the same as the starters) give them up constantly. One guy in a test season allowed more than 10 HR per 9 IP.

Is this something with the game, or a mistake that I've made without knowing it?

actionjackson · 07-30-2011, 10:24 PM

How did you go about tinkering with the totals? The best way is to go through the era_stats.txt file in your database folder of the Out of the Park folder that goes in your Documents folder. If you copy/paste each of the seasons in there to whatever year's your favourite using all of the stats in that file from that year it should take, and keep rolling out there for as long as you care to stretch it out.

silentrob · 07-30-2011, 11:03 PM

What I did was to go to the Game Setup -> League Setup -> Strategy screen. Once there, I used the dropdown menu "Totals from year" and selected 1983. I've been playing around with the modifier for HR from there, but no matter what levels I try, I seem to get the same results.

actionjackson · 07-30-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentrob

What I did was to go to the Game Setup -> League Setup -> Strategy screen. Once there, I used the dropdown menu "Totals from year" and selected 1983. I've been playing around with the modifier for HR from there, but no matter what levels I try, I seem to get the same results.

I think, but I'm not sure as I've never tried it, that for some reason modifying the era_stats.txt file works much better. I think I recall that changing totals in the game causes wacky results, and that it's better to have the game import the totals that you want from that file, as it can't tell the difference between what you want to see and what really happened if you change that file (of course back it up first, under a slightly different name elsewhere). Spritze is a big help in areas such as these, and hopefully he'll be able to help you better than I can.

silentrob · 07-31-2011, 12:05 AM

I'll look at the file and play around with it a bit (after saving) and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

actionjackson · 07-31-2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentrob

I'll look at the file and play around with it a bit (after saving) and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

You're welcome. I think it also might work better if you try this method with a fresh game, rather than continuing the one you've started because if you already have messy numbers, it could be a few seasons before they straighten out again. Just out of curiousity, how early in baseball history are we talking? You wouldn't want to play the earliest 19th century stuff if you're using default rosters because of the 1-man rotations and generally 2 and sometimes 3 man pitching staffs (starters and relievers). Keep us posted.

silentrob · 07-31-2011, 01:47 AM

Yeah, I was starting with the original guys, with a really short schedule to start with until the teams built up enough pitchers to have a more typical pitching staff.

And I had planned to start fresh, only playing about a 30-game schedule it won't take long to get back to where I was. I'll let you know what happens even if it takes a little while to get some results. Thanks again for the support.

silentrob · 07-31-2011, 03:49 AM

OK, reporting back after adjusting the era_stats file and playing around with it. The experiment of replacing the 19th century lines in that file with stat lines from 1983 did not really work.

The number of HR hit in the league was just about right. But it was still just about all relief pitchers giving up the HR. The average SP allowed about 0.2 HR per 9 IP. The average reliever was at about 5.0 HR per 9 IP, despite no great difference in the quality of the pitchers.

I suppose the next solution is to devise a formula for the hitters & pitchers that I could apply to them when they enter the league, that will give them 1980s-ish ratings for power and movement. I was hoping to avoid that, but unless there is a better way to do this I'm not thinking of, may have to go that route.

Spritze · 07-31-2011, 12:09 PM

This thing you are trying has been tried by many players over the years since the days of OOTP-Infant at least.

It does not and cannot work without editing every players stat line to add batting and pitching HR's closer to a 1980's level.

Here is why....1) the 1880=1980 HR modifer is hugely large for hitters 2) In 1880 many pitchers might give up 1 HR in 400 IP's so they would have a hugely low rate, a lesser pitcher (RP) might give up 1 HR in 40 innings. Since the first guy still gives up almost no HR's when the two modifiers are combined but someone has to give them up, the lesser guy gets dinged for them.

In this case the math creates the issue. There used to be a limit on the high side of the HR modifier that added to this challenge but if leaguewide totals are close that has been removed, which is a good thing.

silentrob · 07-31-2011, 12:44 PM

I was afraid I was not the first person to attempt this. I figured out a way to do it (more or less) back in OOTP9, but it was by doing just what you said, Spritze, by manually editing the power ratings for hitters and movement ratings for pitchers to a fairly modern level. I was hoping to avoid having to do that in OOTP12, but it appears I'll have to break out my old formulas once again.

It was worth a try, anyway.

silentrob · 08-10-2011, 09:53 AM

Don't know if anyone is still reading this, but I went back through my league, restarted everything with the movement of SP basically modified so that every pitcher's movement is close to equal. They are all rated 6 on the 2-8 scale, essentially. Also modified hitters power rating, average player is now rated 3 or 4. But the issue I initially started the thread to discuss, that of relief pitchers giving up far more HR than SP, remains.

Most SP allow 0.4 - 0.9 HR per 9 IP, don't think that anyone is over 1.0 at this time. Relievers, on the other hand, are still giving up HR at a rate of 3.1 HR per 9 IP. I checked, and some even have more movement than the SP of their teams.

So, while I don't know the inner workings of this game as well as some here, it seems to me there is more going on than just the math of movement ratings and power ratings.

Spritze · 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM

The statiscal HR modifiers plus HR/rate by pitcher plus AO/GO pct plus ratings plus etc ad infinitum.

Don't change the ratings and expect this to be altered, you must change the league and individual stats for every team/hitter/pitcher/year. Futzing with ratings is covering old ground, so is futzing with modifiers. The gold is in the stats themselves.

silentrob · 08-10-2011, 01:21 PM

Please pardon me if it's taking a while to understand all of this. Just trying to figure it out. But am I interpreting correctly that in order to get equal HR rates, I need to go into the DB the game imports players from and change the individual stats of the players before they import? I already have changed the league totals on the Game Setup screen, I thought that along with moderating the individual abilities would be sufficient. I also looked at the "expected stats" line in the editor tab of the player profile, and the results there do not reflect this discrepancy between starters and relievers and how often they give up the HR.

I've also noticed that if I switch roles, starters that formerly had low totals of HR allowed give them up like crazy when they become relievers. Which is why I made the above comment, that the role the pitcher is performing in seems to be the determining factor, not the actual stats or ratings.

I really do appreciate your time in commenting, Spritze, just having a hard time understanding why this seems to happen as it does.

silentrob · 08-12-2011, 02:57 PM

Though it appears I may be talking to myself at this point, I've also noticed that the discrepancy grows the higher you put the HR modifier on the league totals. Perhaps I should now experiment with that happens when I lower the modifier instead of raising it?

silentrob · 08-13-2011, 02:05 PM

Well, cutting down the HR modifier in league totals did work. In fact, I reduced the league total modifier by a pretty extreme amount, close to 75% (from about 11.000 to 3.000), and the HR rate for the league as a whole even increased slightly. It appeared the discrepancy between SP and RP allowing HR did even out somewhat as well, have to try this for a full season to get more reliable results, however.

sprague · 08-24-2011, 02:56 PM

i had a similar question

what about going to the game setup page

and where it has options and has a list of the years mods (list of percentages for the league that year)
if you change homeruns manually from a year that say is

.783
and change to 1.000

and then drop down to the totals for the year
say homeruns 2003
and change to 4003

would those tow

07-30-2011, 09:04 PM	#1
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	HR distribution in my historic league Can anyone explain this? I've tried to set up a historic league starting from the early years of baseball, but with league totals based on the 1980s. The idea being that 19th century players are playing, but accumulating stats like players from the 1980s. Seems to be working OK except in distribution of HR. For some reason, starting pitchers allow them very rarely, but relief pitchers (regardless of their movement ratings, which are typically near the same as the starters) give them up constantly. One guy in a test season allowed more than 10 HR per 9 IP. Is this something with the game, or a mistake that I've made without knowing it?

07-30-2011, 10:24 PM	#2
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	How did you go about tinkering with the totals? The best way is to go through the era_stats.txt file in your database folder of the Out of the Park folder that goes in your Documents folder. If you copy/paste each of the seasons in there to whatever year's your favourite using all of the stats in that file from that year it should take, and keep rolling out there for as long as you care to stretch it out.

07-30-2011, 11:03 PM	#3
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	What I did was to go to the Game Setup -> League Setup -> Strategy screen. Once there, I used the dropdown menu "Totals from year" and selected 1983. I've been playing around with the modifier for HR from there, but no matter what levels I try, I seem to get the same results.

07-31-2011, 12:05 AM	#5
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	I'll look at the file and play around with it a bit (after saving) and see what happens. Thanks for the idea.

07-31-2011, 01:47 AM	#7
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Yeah, I was starting with the original guys, with a really short schedule to start with until the teams built up enough pitchers to have a more typical pitching staff. And I had planned to start fresh, only playing about a 30-game schedule it won't take long to get back to where I was. I'll let you know what happens even if it takes a little while to get some results. Thanks again for the support.

07-31-2011, 03:49 AM	#8
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	OK, reporting back after adjusting the era_stats file and playing around with it. The experiment of replacing the 19th century lines in that file with stat lines from 1983 did not really work. The number of HR hit in the league was just about right. But it was still just about all relief pitchers giving up the HR. The average SP allowed about 0.2 HR per 9 IP. The average reliever was at about 5.0 HR per 9 IP, despite no great difference in the quality of the pitchers. I suppose the next solution is to devise a formula for the hitters & pitchers that I could apply to them when they enter the league, that will give them 1980s-ish ratings for power and movement. I was hoping to avoid that, but unless there is a better way to do this I'm not thinking of, may have to go that route.

07-31-2011, 12:09 PM	#9
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	This thing you are trying has been tried by many players over the years since the days of OOTP-Infant at least. It does not and cannot work without editing every players stat line to add batting and pitching HR's closer to a 1980's level. Here is why....1) the 1880=1980 HR modifer is hugely large for hitters 2) In 1880 many pitchers might give up 1 HR in 400 IP's so they would have a hugely low rate, a lesser pitcher (RP) might give up 1 HR in 40 innings. Since the first guy still gives up almost no HR's when the two modifiers are combined but someone has to give them up, the lesser guy gets dinged for them. In this case the math creates the issue. There used to be a limit on the high side of the HR modifier that added to this challenge but if leaguewide totals are close that has been removed, which is a good thing.

07-31-2011, 12:44 PM	#10
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	I was afraid I was not the first person to attempt this. I figured out a way to do it (more or less) back in OOTP9, but it was by doing just what you said, Spritze, by manually editing the power ratings for hitters and movement ratings for pitchers to a fairly modern level. I was hoping to avoid having to do that in OOTP12, but it appears I'll have to break out my old formulas once again. It was worth a try, anyway.

08-10-2011, 09:53 AM	#11
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Don't know if anyone is still reading this, but I went back through my league, restarted everything with the movement of SP basically modified so that every pitcher's movement is close to equal. They are all rated 6 on the 2-8 scale, essentially. Also modified hitters power rating, average player is now rated 3 or 4. But the issue I initially started the thread to discuss, that of relief pitchers giving up far more HR than SP, remains. Most SP allow 0.4 - 0.9 HR per 9 IP, don't think that anyone is over 1.0 at this time. Relievers, on the other hand, are still giving up HR at a rate of 3.1 HR per 9 IP. I checked, and some even have more movement than the SP of their teams. So, while I don't know the inner workings of this game as well as some here, it seems to me there is more going on than just the math of movement ratings and power ratings.

08-10-2011, 12:58 PM	#12
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	The statiscal HR modifiers plus HR/rate by pitcher plus AO/GO pct plus ratings plus etc ad infinitum. Don't change the ratings and expect this to be altered, you must change the league and individual stats for every team/hitter/pitcher/year. Futzing with ratings is covering old ground, so is futzing with modifiers. The gold is in the stats themselves.

08-10-2011, 01:21 PM	#13
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Please pardon me if it's taking a while to understand all of this. Just trying to figure it out. But am I interpreting correctly that in order to get equal HR rates, I need to go into the DB the game imports players from and change the individual stats of the players before they import? I already have changed the league totals on the Game Setup screen, I thought that along with moderating the individual abilities would be sufficient. I also looked at the "expected stats" line in the editor tab of the player profile, and the results there do not reflect this discrepancy between starters and relievers and how often they give up the HR. I've also noticed that if I switch roles, starters that formerly had low totals of HR allowed give them up like crazy when they become relievers. Which is why I made the above comment, that the role the pitcher is performing in seems to be the determining factor, not the actual stats or ratings. I really do appreciate your time in commenting, Spritze, just having a hard time understanding why this seems to happen as it does.

08-12-2011, 02:57 PM	#14
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Though it appears I may be talking to myself at this point, I've also noticed that the discrepancy grows the higher you put the HR modifier on the league totals. Perhaps I should now experiment with that happens when I lower the modifier instead of raising it?

08-13-2011, 02:05 PM	#15
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Well, cutting down the HR modifier in league totals did work. In fact, I reduced the league total modifier by a pretty extreme amount, close to 75% (from about 11.000 to 3.000), and the HR rate for the league as a whole even increased slightly. It appeared the discrepancy between SP and RP allowing HR did even out somewhat as well, have to try this for a full season to get more reliable results, however.

08-24-2011, 02:56 PM	#16
sprague All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,921	i had a similar question what about going to the game setup page and where it has options and has a list of the years mods (list of percentages for the league that year) if you change homeruns manually from a year that say is .783 and change to 1.000 and then drop down to the totals for the year say homeruns 2003 and change to 4003 would those tow