1871 Onwards, Pitch by Pitch - Building 1871 from the Ground Up

Shazbat · 05-21-2010, 09:21 PM

Earlier, I had some questions regarding the 1871 season in the 1871 Results and Award Voting for MVP thread.
I had some questions about how the thread host managed to get through he season, as most of us know the game interface's schedule engine leaves quite a lot to be desired, by not taking playing eras into account, allowing for rest days for the pitchers.

I got quite a lot of useful information as a result, including the following quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjj55409

We're hijacking Eck's thread, and I know that he builds his rosters by hand. But I just use the database, and I have a technique which I now have working pretty well in v11.

1. Create a fictional league in 1870 (2 teams is fine).
2. Sim to off season
3. Delete teams; delete all players; erase league history
4. Create the National Association teams for 1871
5. On each team's Options/Ballpark page, enter the Lahman team ID into the historical ID field
6. Sim to 1871 preseason

At this point, all of your teams will have the 1871 players. Load your schedule and sim away. The transition from year to year is then similar to the 1871 start. At the offseason of the previous year, I change the structure of the league, add or delete teams as necessary. Sim to the next preseason and the players that debuted in that year are on the correct teams.

OK, I'm ready to try this out, but since this is a very temperamental interface, I'm afraid I'll need a step-by-step walk-through, so I created this thread for tech-support, with appropriate thread header name-changes to reflect the issue that I happen to be working on at the time. I figured there are also other n00bs such as myself who are attempting to watch simulated historic baseball pitch by pitch from the 19th Century thru the 21st, and this thread and threads like it could be a useful reference to those users as well.

I'll have other questions as well which are probably answered elsewhere in this forum, and if that's the case, oh well. haha! I'd ask them in this initial post, but I want to get this Wall of Text posted before it gets any longer.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Shazbat · 05-21-2010, 09:42 PM

The following quote was also useful, in reply to the quote above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Yeah, if I was smart I'd use this system. But I had a manually put together quickstart that I used in OOTP 10 that I imported for this.

The real key, though, is using historical schedules. When the players are exhausted the results you get are definitely a little off. (Which reminds me - the thing I'd like to see for OOTP 12 is the ability to manually edit fatigue levels.)

I think I'll need a walk-thru on implementing the downloadable historic schedules, as well.

Also: I was wondering why the interface's default setting for injuries is not at the "normal" setting, because I'm considering running this whole thing on the "normal" setting.

And does anybody know how to find the Lahman team ID which mjj55409 was referring to?

Shazbat · 05-21-2010, 11:34 PM

Start New Historic League

Step one: just for laughs, I checked Import complete history up to 1871; probably doesn't make any difference one way or the other.

Step two: I'm assuming that the Abbr. column is the Lahman team ID which was mentioned earlier? Also, I wonder why there are so many teams on this default list which don't appear historically for a few more years down the road.

Step three: all minor leagues checked; will use ghost players.

Step four: uncheck Automatically Expand League and uncheck Hold expansion draft; somebody in another thread suggested that Enable automatic import of financial settings be unchecked, so I'm doing that for now. I would like to know, though: what effect does this have on the financial settings in the game? What are the tradeoffs--pros and cons--between the checked and unchecked settings?

Step five: all settings left at default.

Step six: Select Team: Start Unemployed; Play in Commissioner Mode: checked. This can be checked or unchecked in the Manager menu, the reason I check this box is just so that I don't get any mail cluttering my inbox while I'm in the process of building the league; Game Name: Major League Baseball; Starting Year: 1870 (this is important)

START GAME

mjj55409 · 05-21-2010, 11:49 PM

I need to amend my above instructions. That's the way it should work, but there is the current crash-to-desktop bug that is affecting this. So what I've been doing, instead of adding the fictional teams in 1870, is to import the actual historical teams in 1871 and start from there.

Note that to do this, you will need to modify the teams.csv file that is in the stats/ directory. The reason for this is that the teams.csv file that is included with OOTP, has the teams setup that it uses for its pseudo-historical 1871 start. So the modification is to simply create the appropriate team entries for 1871.

What I have been planning to do, but haven't had the time, is to create a quickstart for this kind of 1871 start.

Quote:

Step two: I'm assuming that the Abbr. column is the Lahman team ID which was mentioned earlier? Also, I wonder why there are so many teams on this default list which don't appear historically for a few more years down the road.

The historical id is found on the teams-->options/ballpark page. You'll need to edit this after the teams are created. I edit this, the logo, the jersey/ballcap, and the ballpark all at the same time.

Quote:

Step four: uncheck Automatically Expand League and uncheck Hold expansion draft; somebody in another thread suggested that Enable automatic import of financial settings be unchecked, so I'm doing that for now. I would like to know, though: what effect does this have on the financial settings in the game? What are the tradeoffs--pros and cons--between the checked and unchecked settings?

Personally, I keep the Import Financials setting checked.

Shazbat · 05-21-2010, 11:51 PM

ML menu: League Options & Rules

Edit League Structure: empty American and Delete Subleague. It was said that keeping just 2 teams is fine, but I'll keep the four teams out of the default team list who actually played in 1871: Boston, the Chi-Stockings, Cleveland, and Philadelphia; deleting the others.

Question: If you remove a team with a full roster, what happens to the other players? I have a few of the other rival interfaces to this one, but none of them play earlier than 1901; I'm not sure about Baseball Mogul, but with Season Ticket Baseball, if you delete a team, the roster gets dumped into the Free Agent pool. With Out of the Park 11, I couldn't seem to find the players after their teams were inadvertently removed. Did the players get deleted to, or did I just not look hard enough? This would be important information for when the Kekiongas, Rockford Forest Citys, and Chi-Stockings don't make it to 1872.

Shazbat · 05-22-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjj55409

I need to amend my above instructions. That's the way it should work, but there is the current crash-to-desktop bug that is affecting this. So what I've been doing, instead of adding the fictional teams in 1870, is to import the actual historical teams in 1871 and start from there.

Note that to do this, you will need to modify the teams.csv file that is in the stats/ directory. The reason for this is that the teams.csv file that is included with OOTP, has the teams setup that it uses for its pseudo-historical 1871 start. So the modification is to simply create the appropriate team entries for 1871.

What I have been planning to do, but haven't had the time, is to create a quickstart for this kind of 1871 start.

The historical id is found on the teams-->options/ballpark page. You'll need to edit this after the teams are created. I edit this, the logo, the jersey/ballcap, and the ballpark all at the same time.

Personally, I keep the Import Financials setting checked.

Thanks!

It would also be nice to have a file available for jersey/ballcaps as well. Haven't tried out the jersey/ballcap settings, but I guess it doesn't make any difference if I'm watching the games in the stat window to help move the games along faster; I also love how the designers went absolutely nuts with the live stats, especially "hits with 2 balls, 1 strike, between the 4th and 6th innings".

mjj55409 · 05-22-2010, 12:01 AM

The players are in the free agent pool.

Shazbat · 05-22-2010, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjj55409

I need to amend my above instructions. That's the way it should work, but there is the current crash-to-desktop bug that is affecting this. So what I've been doing, instead of adding the fictional teams in 1870, is to import the actual historical teams in 1871 and start from there.

Note that to do this, you will need to modify the teams.csv file that is in the stats/ directory. The reason for this is that the teams.csv file that is included with OOTP, has the teams setup that it uses for its pseudo-historical 1871 start. So the modification is to simply create the appropriate team entries for 1871.

I have next to zero experience with .csv, and I'd like to use the historic 9 teams rather than 8. How do you add a 9th team to the list?

Shazbat · 05-22-2010, 04:17 PM

I guess I could edit the team names in the file, and then add the 9th team after creating the leauge.

Elysian Fields · 05-22-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shazbat

I guess I could edit the team names in the file, and then add the 9th team after creating the leauge.

That's what I would do.

Shazbat · 05-22-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian Fields

That's what I would do.

We were trying to avoid having to draft the players to each team by hand one by one though, and he was trying to help me with a workaround.

It's no big deal though, I'll get a reliable copy of each team's main roster, and then when the teams with the smallest rosters are full, end the draft and leave the bench-warmers on the Free Agent list; I'm ready to get this going.

I know there are downloadable historic schedules, but since this is the most temperamental baseball simulator interface I've had to work with (but ironically is pretty well the best one I've ever owned, thank you programmers), I want to make sure that I get the importation of the schedule exactly right so there are no issues. So any step by step information would be a big help.

Shazbat · 05-24-2010, 02:24 PM

The team list is complete: 9 teams with empty rosters and a clear schedule. I tried the 1871 schedule from 19th_Century_Schedules, but the schedule shows 80 games to be played, whereas the most game anybody played that year was 32.

I've decided to construct the schedule by hand, then export the file. There was a site which I found recently, and I wish I could remember exactly which one it was. Looking for it now...

Cryomaniac · 05-24-2010, 02:54 PM

I think there's a file of as-played schedules for every year from 1871 to 1901 around somewhere.

Shazbat · 05-24-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think there's a file of as-played schedules for every year from 1871 to 1901 around somewhere.

I found the link I was referring to with the schedules and results, and here's the one for the Athletics:

1871 Philadelphia Athletics Schedule, Box Scores and Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Got a few games entered but I have to go to work soon; will finish the schedule over time.

mjj55409 · 05-24-2010, 04:08 PM

Save yourself some time. Go download the schedules from Padrefan's site, and load them directly into the schedule the editor.

fhomess · 05-25-2010, 11:30 AM

Use the link in this thread for the schedules:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...schedules.html
I updated the 1871 schedule to say 30 games rather than 80, but that's not really important. The number of games listed in the filename/header doesn't matter in terms of matching the number of games teams actually play. The only thing that matters is that the number of games listed matches the number of games you've entered in your league settings. Otherwise the game won't import the schedule. You can have your schedule header say that teams play 1 game, but then have each team actually play 100. The game will still import all the games correctly as long as the league setting is 1 game. It's not such a big deal to enter 1871 by hand, but when you get to larger leagues with more games, it takes a very long time.

Also note that for the as-played schedules, I used retrosheet as the resource, not BBRef. Retrosheet includes some games that finished in ties, which BBRef doesn't always include but Retrosheet does (in the standings, too). The ultimate resource for these was LGO, I just converted them to OOTP format.

Also, make sure you've adjusted your league structure (added/removed all teams) prior to loading the schedule for that season.

Shazbat · 05-25-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhomess

Use the link in this thread for the schedules:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...schedules.html
I updated the 1871 schedule to say 30 games rather than 80, but that's not really important. The number of games listed in the filename/header doesn't matter in terms of matching the number of games teams actually play. The only thing that matters is that the number of games listed matches the number of games you've entered in your league settings. Otherwise the game won't import the schedule. You can have your schedule header say that teams play 1 game, but then have each team actually play 100. The game will still import all the games correctly as long as the league setting is 1 game. It's not such a big deal to enter 1871 by hand, but when you get to larger leagues with more games, it takes a very long time.

Also note that for the as-played schedules, I used retrosheet as the resource, not BBRef. Retrosheet includes some games that finished in ties, which BBRef doesn't always include but Retrosheet does (in the standings, too). The ultimate resource for these was LGO, I just converted them to OOTP format.

Also, make sure you've adjusted your league structure (added/removed all teams) prior to loading the schedule for that season.

OK, did what you said, and success! Thank you!

Now ready to start the initial draft. Some of you might provide information as to how to put 100% accurate rosters together which would be very useful for the future, so feel free to provide such info. For now though, I've decided to draft the main lineups for each team by hand, starting with the pitchers, and then when the teams with the shortest rosters are full, I'll leave the bench-warmers who are left on the Free Agent list for the teams to wheel and deal on later.

Also, it would be nice to have an All Star game in the schedule. When I went through the 1871 season the first time round on Out of the Park 11, the teams didn't get drafted. Then again though, since I'm running only the National Association, the All Star Game engine was probably wondering which league wishes to oppose the NA, and since there are no rival leagues at this point in history, the All Star game cannot be played out.

Shazbat · 05-26-2010, 12:23 AM

Rosters filled! Starting the season forward now. Thanks!

My original plan was to be able to change the thread header to reflect what I'm doing with this undertaking, but I don't seem to be able to. I've gone through the Advanced posting and I changed a header there, but it didn't seem to affect the name on the thread ladder. Anybody know how to work around this, or do I need to start a separate thread with a more appropriate title?

Shazbat · 06-09-2010, 06:28 PM

Season is underway, and is nearly finished.

So when should I edit the league structure, so that I can make sure the new teams are fully staffed for the 1872 season? I'm not all that concerned about the right players being with the right teams as much as I am about making sure all of the rosters are full for the next season.

Players from 1871 that I like just because of their names: Davy Force and Joe Start

highandoutside · 06-09-2010, 09:30 PM

If you haven't yet, you must read the book "'fifty-nine in '84" by Edward Achorn. It is a fantastic story about Charles Radbourn and his 59 win season. It is so well written that I doubt you'll be able to put it down. More importantly, you'll learn and become familiar with the players you are "watching" develop in OOTP.

05-22-2010, 12:01 AM	#7
mjj55409 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,166	The players are in the free agent pool. __________________ FABL -- Chicago Chiefs

05-24-2010, 02:54 PM	#13
Cryomaniac Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK Posts: 4,902	I think there's a file of as-played schedules for every year from 1871 to 1901 around somewhere. __________________

05-24-2010, 04:08 PM	#15
mjj55409 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,166	Save yourself some time. Go download the schedules from Padrefan's site, and load them directly into the schedule the editor. __________________ FABL -- Chicago Chiefs

05-25-2010, 11:30 AM	#16
fhomess Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 3,585	Use the link in this thread for the schedules: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...schedules.html I updated the 1871 schedule to say 30 games rather than 80, but that's not really important. The number of games listed in the filename/header doesn't matter in terms of matching the number of games teams actually play. The only thing that matters is that the number of games listed matches the number of games you've entered in your league settings. Otherwise the game won't import the schedule. You can have your schedule header say that teams play 1 game, but then have each team actually play 100. The game will still import all the games correctly as long as the league setting is 1 game. It's not such a big deal to enter 1871 by hand, but when you get to larger leagues with more games, it takes a very long time. Also note that for the as-played schedules, I used retrosheet as the resource, not BBRef. Retrosheet includes some games that finished in ties, which BBRef doesn't always include but Retrosheet does (in the standings, too). The ultimate resource for these was LGO, I just converted them to OOTP format. Also, make sure you've adjusted your league structure (added/removed all teams) prior to loading the schedule for that season. __________________ StatsLab- PHP/MySQL based utilities for Online Leagues Baseball Cards - Full list of known templates and documentation on card development. Last edited by fhomess; 05-25-2010 at 11:32 AM.

06-09-2010, 06:28 PM	#19
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	Season is underway, and is nearly finished. So when should I edit the league structure, so that I can make sure the new teams are fully staffed for the 1872 season? I'm not all that concerned about the right players being with the right teams as much as I am about making sure all of the rosters are full for the next season. Players from 1871 that I like just because of their names: Davy Force and Joe Start Last edited by Shazbat; 06-09-2010 at 09:06 PM.

05-21-2010, 11:34 PM	#3
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	Start New Historic League Step one: just for laughs, I checked Import complete history up to 1871; probably doesn't make any difference one way or the other. Step two: I'm assuming that the Abbr. column is the Lahman team ID which was mentioned earlier? Also, I wonder why there are so many teams on this default list which don't appear historically for a few more years down the road. Step three: all minor leagues checked; will use ghost players. Step four: uncheck Automatically Expand League and uncheck Hold expansion draft; somebody in another thread suggested that Enable automatic import of financial settings be unchecked, so I'm doing that for now. I would like to know, though: what effect does this have on the financial settings in the game? What are the tradeoffs--pros and cons--between the checked and unchecked settings? Step five: all settings left at default. Step six: Select Team: Start Unemployed; Play in Commissioner Mode: checked. This can be checked or unchecked in the Manager menu, the reason I check this box is just so that I don't get any mail cluttering my inbox while I'm in the process of building the league; Game Name: Major League Baseball; Starting Year: 1870 (this is important) START GAME

05-21-2010, 11:51 PM	#5
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	ML menu: League Options & Rules Edit League Structure: empty American and Delete Subleague. It was said that keeping just 2 teams is fine, but I'll keep the four teams out of the default team list who actually played in 1871: Boston, the Chi-Stockings, Cleveland, and Philadelphia; deleting the others. Question: If you remove a team with a full roster, what happens to the other players? I have a few of the other rival interfaces to this one, but none of them play earlier than 1901; I'm not sure about Baseball Mogul, but with Season Ticket Baseball, if you delete a team, the roster gets dumped into the Free Agent pool. With Out of the Park 11, I couldn't seem to find the players after their teams were inadvertently removed. Did the players get deleted to, or did I just not look hard enough? This would be important information for when the Kekiongas, Rockford Forest Citys, and Chi-Stockings don't make it to 1872.

05-22-2010, 04:17 PM	#9
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	I guess I could edit the team names in the file, and then add the 9th team after creating the leauge.

05-24-2010, 02:24 PM	#12
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	The team list is complete: 9 teams with empty rosters and a clear schedule. I tried the 1871 schedule from 19th_Century_Schedules, but the schedule shows 80 games to be played, whereas the most game anybody played that year was 32. I've decided to construct the schedule by hand, then export the file. There was a site which I found recently, and I wish I could remember exactly which one it was. Looking for it now...

05-26-2010, 12:23 AM	#18
Shazbat Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 24	Rosters filled! Starting the season forward now. Thanks! My original plan was to be able to change the thread header to reflect what I'm doing with this undertaking, but I don't seem to be able to. I've gone through the Advanced posting and I changed a header there, but it didn't seem to affect the name on the thread ladder. Anybody know how to work around this, or do I need to start a separate thread with a more appropriate title?

06-09-2010, 09:30 PM	#20
highandoutside All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 631	If you haven't yet, you must read the book "'fifty-nine in '84" by Edward Achorn. It is a fantastic story about Charles Radbourn and his 59 win season. It is so well written that I doubt you'll be able to put it down. More importantly, you'll learn and become familiar with the players you are "watching" develop in OOTP.