If only ootpbb could look like mogul

ravinhood · 04-14-2010, 07:27 PM

I just got my copy of Baseball Mogul 2010 and am very impressed with the graphics representation as it looks and has a better feel for the game instead of just a ball flying out into an empty outfield. I still would love to have some Microleague Baseball animations at least though.

The text and statistical value of OOTPBB is number 1 but the animation is last.

Sound isn't that great either. Cmon can't you have a fan say "You ain't nutin" once in awhile like Front Page Sports Baseball did? I miss that game so much. If I could only get it to work on Vista 64 or I'd even upgrade to Win7 if it worked on it.

So come on now you've made the greatest statistical based game can't you add and improve the graphics of the actual game more?

CD1083 · 04-14-2010, 07:30 PM

A lot of work for little else than aesthetics. There is still plenty to add/improve with the core game.

While I wouldn't be apposed to a little garnish, I'd rather have a bigger steak than more sizzle....mmmm, now I'm hungry.

ravinhood · 04-14-2010, 07:43 PM

Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

thomamon · 04-14-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

Well, this is a text sim. It is not meant to be a graphical game, that's why efforts are focused elsewhere right now. Not to say that it won't be improved in the future, but right now that is not where the priority lays.

Syd Thrift · 04-14-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

It's not like Markus can just magically add graphics just like the big whammo. Any time spent putting a graphical engine into the game is time not spent working on the myriad other things that, frankly, make OOTP a game for adults and Mogul a game for children. This isn't a flaw with the game, it's a design decision.

Tekneek · 04-14-2010, 08:40 PM

There are much bigger fish to fry than working on the graphics. There's too much in the way of graphics and sound now anyway, for me, and I find myself usually turning those off.

RchW · 04-14-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tekneek

There are much bigger fish to fry than working on the graphics. There's too much in the way of graphics and sound now anyway, for me, and I find myself usually turning those off.

That was amongst the first things I did.

DreamTeams · 04-14-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Sound isn't that great either. Cmon can't you have a fan say "You ain't nutin" once in awhile like Front Page Sports Baseball did?

Actually I think this is doable, ravinhood. The sound files in FPS Baseball are wav files. So, you could edit them for use in OOTP which also uses wav files for sound. That's what I did and improved the sound quite a bit. Download 'Sound Mod For OOTP 10' by DreamTeams on PadresFan's site...

OOTP Misc. Files.

It's based on sounds from FPS Baseball. Dosn't include the "You ain't nutin" sound file, but you could put that in on your own, if you want.

Charlie Hough · 04-14-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomamon

Well, this is a text sim. It is not meant to be a graphical game, that's why efforts are focused elsewhere right now. Not to say that it won't be improved in the future, but right now that is not where the priority lays.

That's what they said about Championship Manager and Football Manager until the 2D match engine was developed and soon after the 3D engine was released. The result was a massive revolution for the series, a lot of thrilled customers, and an easier ability to understand the action and develop more effective strategies ... just like real life.

Isura · 04-14-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

Markus probably makes more money focusing on the hardcore text sim crowd. It's all about opportunity cost.

megamanmatt · 04-14-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravinhood

Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

The problem is once you focus on graphics, that's it. That's what people come to expect year in year out. While totally separate types of games, that is IMO the biggest problem with console games. So much effort is put into making the stadiums and players that by the time they're done you get stuck with the same horrible game play from the year before. Also while Mogul may be a bit pretty it lags behind OOTP in every single other possible way, so I really don't think the fact it looks better is any kind of an advantage, because if your simulation of the game is only so-so then all the paint in the world won't hide the fact it's a turd. These are only my opinions though.

struggles_mightily · 04-14-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

That's what they said about Championship Manager and Football Manager, until the 2D match engine was developed and then soon later the 3D engine was released. The result was a massive revolution for the series, a lot of thrilled customers, and an easier ability to understand the action and develop more effective strategies ... just like real life.

OOTP Developments possesses rather less in the way of human resources than Sports Interactive did at that point, though, right? OOTPD is, on the programming side, basically just one man at the moment (as far as I'm aware). I have no idea how much experience Markus has with 2D modelling, and I doubt that OOTPD makes enough money to hire another programmer, even if this were determined to be a desirable avenue to go down.

Also, I'm not sure that a baseball sim would gain quite as much tactical/strategic development through an increase in visuals.

For me, in-game visuals aren't important at all. And I think that OOTP's user interface is much prettier & more intuitive than is BBM's.

megamanmatt · 04-14-2010, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by struggles_mightily

Also, I'm not sure that a baseball sim would gain quite as much tactical/strategic development through an increase in visuals.

imo soccer, football, hockey, and basketball are easier to recreate visually than baseball anyway, due to lack of so many outside influences affecting games. Most plays in baseball are heavily influenced by outside effect, whether it be wind, different outfield dimentions, a spot in the dirt the produces a bad hop.

molarmite · 04-14-2010, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

That's what they said about Championship Manager and Football Manager until the 2D match engine was developed and soon after the 3D engine was released. The result was a massive revolution for the series, a lot of thrilled customers, and an easier ability to understand the action and develop more effective strategies ... just like real life.

OOTP is just Markus while SI has an entire staff including a person just for graphics. It would require another person added to the staff which they just don't make the sales to do. So donate hundreds of dollars and then we could see it

Malleus Dei · 04-14-2010, 09:49 PM

Horrible, awful, hideous idea.

There's far too much useless and annoying graphics and sound in the game already.

megamanmatt · 04-14-2010, 09:50 PM

Now look what you did! I was enjoying the happy MD and you had to go make him all surly again!

Charlie Hough · 04-14-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by struggles_mightily

OOTP Developments possesses rather less in the way of human resources than Sports Interactive did at that point, though, right?

Yes, I've seen this argument before. The problem is that it ignores the fact that there are thousands of graphic artists going through university programs that would love an opportunity to work on a game and get an early credit to build their resumes. And they might just take something like this on for free. If OOTP established a graphic design unpaid internship and perhaps worked with a university to allow an advanced level student to earn credit in return, then this is the answer.

Sometimes you have to be resourceful and not sit around and believe you're stuck because you don't have money to invest.

MicroLeague Baseball was started by a single mathematics professor who got two students to do the programming. They took the finished product down to a private athletic club and allowed some wealthy potential investors to demo the game. I believe that's how they raised their initial capital. They started with basically zero budget, but they created a text sim with graphics and ultimately sold a ton of copies and formed a successful sports sim business. It can be done.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 04-14-2010, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Horrible, awful, hideous idea.

There's far too much useless and annoying graphics and sound in the game already.

I won't go this far, but I would hate to see any of Markus' time spent on those sorts of bells and whistles. He's done a hell of a job making an amazing game, and it's taken many years to get it to this point.

If they had 10 people working on the game and some of them were going to spend some time on graphics, I'd say "fine." But OOTP is a game for a niche market, so they don't have that kind of money. The focus needs to be (and in recent years has been) on making the game as good as it can possibly be.

damientheomen3 · 04-14-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

The problem is once you focus on graphics, that's it. That's what people come to expect year in year out. While totally separate types of games, that is IMO the biggest problem with console games. So much effort is put into making the stadiums and players that by the time they're done you get stuck with the same horrible game play from the year before. Also while Mogul may be a bit pretty it lags behind OOTP in every single other possible way, so I really don't think the fact it looks better is any kind of an advantage, because if your simulation of the game is only so-so then all the paint in the world won't hide the fact it's a turd. These are only my opinions though.

Exactly. While Madden 10's franchise and career modes are EVEN WORSE than last year, we listen to the 2 biggest new additions they pushed: the addition of hand warming towels and super bowl patches.

Cornelius McGillicuddy · 04-14-2010, 10:51 PM

A baseball sim can effectively have graphics OR text but not both. Try it with Mogul. It has some text on the right hand side. Try looking at the ball flight with one eye and reading the text with the other. You can look at one and then the other but not both at the same time. I've played both and prefer the ootp text although I also like the Mogul graphics.

04-14-2010, 07:27 PM	#1
ravinhood Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 374 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	If only ootpbb could look like mogul I just got my copy of Baseball Mogul 2010 and am very impressed with the graphics representation as it looks and has a better feel for the game instead of just a ball flying out into an empty outfield. I still would love to have some Microleague Baseball animations at least though. The text and statistical value of OOTPBB is number 1 but the animation is last. Sound isn't that great either. Cmon can't you have a fan say "You ain't nutin" once in awhile like Front Page Sports Baseball did? I miss that game so much. If I could only get it to work on Vista 64 or I'd even upgrade to Win7 if it worked on it. So come on now you've made the greatest statistical based game can't you add and improve the graphics of the actual game more?

04-14-2010, 09:50 PM	#16
megamanmatt Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 2,416	Now look what you did! I was enjoying the happy MD and you had to go make him all surly again! __________________ "The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes; The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil; the Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music; The Oakland Raiders moved to Los Angeles and then back to Oakland, no one in Los Angeles seemed to notice." Note to self: Princess Kenny was really off-putting.

04-14-2010, 07:30 PM	#2
CD1083 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,590	A lot of work for little else than aesthetics. There is still plenty to add/improve with the core game. While I wouldn't be apposed to a little garnish, I'd rather have a bigger steak than more sizzle....mmmm, now I'm hungry.

04-14-2010, 07:43 PM	#3
ravinhood Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 374 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Well in your case you are already going to buy it. But there are customers like me that won't buy OOTPBB every year because there are no better improved graphics an animations. A lost sale is still a lost sale and more income he could have if he would add more to the graphics dept.

04-14-2010, 08:40 PM	#6
Tekneek Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA, USA Posts: 453	There are much bigger fish to fry than working on the graphics. There's too much in the way of graphics and sound now anyway, for me, and I find myself usually turning those off.

04-14-2010, 10:51 PM	#20
Cornelius McGillicuddy Banned Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Playing the inside game Posts: 763 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	A baseball sim can effectively have graphics OR text but not both. Try it with Mogul. It has some text on the right hand side. Try looking at the ball flight with one eye and reading the text with the other. You can look at one and then the other but not both at the same time. I've played both and prefer the ootp text although I also like the Mogul graphics.