Competitive balance discussion

[damientheomen3]

Hey, you nailed down my entire infield and center fielder.

All of those were pack pulls of course, except Posey, where I was sick of lagging behind with a bronze catcher and had the opportunity to grab a good fielding catcher for relatively cheap. The rest of my OF is Moises Alou and Ronald Acuna with Ichiro at DH though. Will probably replace Ichiro soon, have a gold Bobby Abreu I pulled yesterday that doesn't sell for much over the min and I don't really want rotting on my inactive roster.

[ASURay]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Look at the best teams in your league. They will mostly look like this:

C Posey/Grandal
1B Goldschmidt/Freeman
2B Altuve/Ramirez
3B Arenado/Rendon
SS Lindor
LF Yelich
CF Trout
RF Betts
DH J.D. Martinez

SP deGrom
SP Sale
SP Kershaw
SP Syndergaard
SP MLB2018 diamond
CL Treinen/Diaz/Doolittle
RP Minter/MLB2018 diamond starter

Of course, there are exceptions, especially for some coveted historical cards such as Randy Johnson. But for the most part, this is the team you need if you want to play with the big boys.

Edit: I forgot to add the standard DH.

Lest anyone view this as pejorative, many of these cards are very good and represent an excellent value on the AH. My current team (following the format above) is:

C Campanella (Grandal is my backup)
1B Kuslewski (just replaced and sold Freeman)
2B 2017 Altuve (much better than the 2018 Live version)
3B Arenado
SS 1949 Vern Stephens
LF Tim Raines
CF Trout
RF Betts
DH Gehrig

SP Sale
SP Syndergaard
SP Niekro (91 OVR version)
SP Corbin
SP Dierker
CL Treinen
RP Diaz/Doolittle/Smith/Future Legend Hicks/etc.

For the price they sell at, Treinen/Diaz/Doolittle/Smith are some of the best values you can find. I'm looking to upgrade Niekro/Dierker with Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens (1990), or John Smoltz (1996). All of those are better than deGrom, IMO, but deGrom is a good value at his current price. I think most of the high gold historical players like my Kuslewski and Gehrig are better than their diamond counterparts. That Kuslewski card is miles better than Freddie Freeman. Grandal is a nice value as well. I think the 2018 Lindor is a pretty good card and a good value. I probably would've gotten it had someone not made a mistake by listing a 1949 Vern Stephens (92 OVR) at a 4,001 PP buy it now. The weakest spot on my team by overall rating is LF where Raines is an 82 OVR. I've been in a league with a super team that has a 97 OVR Rickey Henderson and that Raines card has done just as well as Rickey every year. I've had Raines since the official release. Over that time he has produced a 162 game average of .280/.380/.410 with 9 HR, 38 doubles, 5 triples, 80 SB, 17 CS, and 6.0 WAR. I haven't found a LF card on the market that I feel will outperform those numbers at a reasonable price.

[Dunzie]

What I’m finding funny is that some guys seem to do real well with certain cards that NEVER seem to do well for me. I have yet to have a Paxton, Snell, Hader, Verlander 97 or Arenado that performed for me and yet every time I look those guys are killing my team head to head. Weird.

[Orcin]

I priced out this build today. It includes a bench and complete bullpen. You could quibble with some of the choices. For example, I took Cano and Harper over Altuve and Bryant for the bench because I wanted some LH bats there. Of course, the prices shown below were a snapshot but it should be good in the aggregate for a few days at least.

This team can be yours for US $150, or less if you already have some of it and other cards to sell.

[acclaim99]

Everyone expects a WS trophy to be handed to them... sheesh...

[Mormo]

I imagined as you get higher in the leagues you would earn PP at a higher rate. Disappointment.

There's nothing up there except an eventual beating from people who spent more than you. At this point, I have more incentive to lose on purpose, or just use bronze pitchers.

Now I know not to bother buying Perfect Points anymore and just stick with Ichiro and Madlock.

[uschi_baerchen]

Originally Posted by Mormo

I imagined as you get higher in the leagues you would earn PP at a higher rate. Disappointment.

There's nothing up there except an eventual beating from people who spent more than you. At this point, I have more incentive to lose on purpose, or just use bronze pitchers.

Now I know not to bother buying Perfect Points anymore and just stick with Ichiro and Madlock.

But if you get more Points relative the higher your league that would make the devil **** on the largest heep as usual, doesn´t it? How should someone who joins the bottom league in 5 weeks get a Team which has a Chance to escalate?

[Westheim]

Hey, just 190k PP to go for me …! =)

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Mormo

I imagined as you get higher in the leagues you would earn PP at a higher rate. Disappointment.

There's nothing up there except an eventual beating from people who spent more than you. At this point, I have more incentive to lose on purpose, or just use bronze pitchers.

Now I know not to bother buying Perfect Points anymore and just stick with Ichiro and Madlock.

The problem with offering higher rewards for higher tiers, as I've said here and elsewhere, is that there is such a high luck factor to this game. Beyond the fact that you could pull a Perfect card from your first-ever pack, sell it, and become a god, even the cards that you buy are not always guaranteed winners. Patrick Corbin and Larry Dierker are two of the more sought-after pitchers in the game right now, but I've seen plenty that are underperforming for their teams. Between the divisional structure and the way baseball works in general, two people could put together the same exact team and wind up with completely different records. Also, you're not playing out the games yourself, so there's no skill factor that comes into play beyond team-building.

So you could have one team that someone has slaved over, putting together piece by piece, that's just starting to play well after a few weeks, then ends up two weeks in a row in a division with a couple of high rollers, and therefore underperforms. That team languishes in Silver for a month or more. Meanwhile, you have someone who was lucky enough to pull a rare card in their first pack, sells it, and puts together the same exact team in a couple of days from the Auction House, not out of any inherent strategy, but just because they're "good cards." That team then randomly gets put into a weaker division, and rockets up to Diamond in the month that Team 1 has spent in Silver. Now, Team 2 is earning more points and has many more chances to upgrade, putting together a beast of a team, while Team 1 is earning less and struggling with the same initial players, despite far more care and thought put into the team.

Higher rewards for higher tiers make sense when player skill is a determining factor in the outcome. PT is a simulation though, so you'd just be rewarding luck.

[Black Death]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Orcin...but you're the guy who believes we should all play with cookie cutter identical ballparks, right?

[spleen1015]

I think giving higher rewards for higher tiers is just exponentially increasing the rewards for the teams with good players. You are already getting rewarded for having the good cards. By having the good cards you're getting into the higher tiers. That's the point in this whole game.That's your reward. Giving more to the already good teams just drives the lower teams out.

[spleen1015]

This makes me wonder a couple of things.

Is there just not enough variety of good cards? Too much emphasis on current day players? I think that's okay because my guess is people would rather have deGrom on their team than Bob Gibson.

My other thought is, is this so evident because there are less than 10,000 teams in PT? If there were 400,000 would this still be the case or would there be greater disparity? It would likely be more evident?

[Cyntric]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

You've probably had some terrible luck to start the year, because I do agree that your roster is fairly solid. But keep in mind the competition is insane, still. I mean, the team you just lost 2/3 to, Charlotte, has 4 perfect cards on their roster, and they're yet they're already 13 games back of the division leader and we're barely a month in.

Personally, I would probably chalk up the year to bad luck, try to stay out of the top-16 in the league (and out of the bottom-2) and try again in the gold league again next year, when the real crazy top teams have moved on. Maybe you have a lucky June and make a run for the playoffs, which actually could be a bad thing if you do make it into the top-16 to move up a league.

Hey, hey, hey. Why ya gotta pick on my team?

Charlotte is getting killed this year. I didnt expect that after making it far in the playoffs last year...

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I think that's okay because my guess is MOST people would rather have deGrom on their team than Bob Gibson.

Fixed this for you. I sold deGrom and bought Gibson with the proceeds, so there is at least one person that would not.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

My other thought is, is this so evident because there are less than 10,000 teams in PT? If there were 400,000 would this still be the case or would there be greater disparity? It would likely be more evident?

I don't see why. There would just be 375,000 more teams that look like this. There are 5 times more MLB2018 cards than all other sets combined. So supply and demand will force the MLB2018 cards to be better values. Add in that historical cards are underrated (some by purpose and some by error) and you have this situation.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

This makes me wonder a couple of things.

Is there just not enough variety of good cards? Too much emphasis on current day players? I think that's okay because my guess is people would rather have deGrom on their team than Bob Gibson.

My other thought is, is this so evident because there are less than 10,000 teams in PT? If there were 400,000 would this still be the case or would there be greater disparity? It would likely be more evident?

Given the fact I have no idea who deGrom is and Gibson struck out 17 in a world series game I know who I would rather have all things being equal.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Black Death

Correct me if I'm wrong, Orcin...but you're the guy who believes we should all play with cookie cutter identical ballparks, right?

Yes, or play from a provided set of real parks that you can choose. I don't see what that has to do with this thread, or why you feel the need to bring it up. If you want to argue about ballparks, why don't you go do it in that thread? Why rehash it here?

For the record, I don't have ANY of these players on my team. I am making the observation that many of the top teams do use this team or an upgraded version thereof. I would say that if you start PT today and spend $150 real money, you can buy this team easily and do quite well at least through gold level.

[Ryan W.]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

I exported my league...

How did you do this? I've been trying to find a place to do this and can't find it?!?!

[spleen1015]

I wasn't around for the beta. Has their been any conversation around 2018 cards being more common than historical cards, even the higher value cards?

Have the devs said anything about this?

I think one change for PT2020 is we need a larger variety of cards.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I wasn't around for the beta. Has their been any conversation around 2018 cards being more common than historical cards, even the higher value cards?

Have the devs said anything about this?

I think one change for PT2020 is we need a larger variety of cards.

Yes and yes. Markus likes it the way it is. Search his posts and you will find the comment.

[<Pion>]

Thought I would list the most common players (those who are on the most teams). The list does not judge how good they are, just a count by team from the 17 leagues I had data from.

Most Common Player: Sean Doolittle (99 teams)

Catcher
Buster Posey (74)
Yasmani Grandal (56)
Salvador Perez (54)

First Base
Max Muncy (46)
Joey Votto (45)
Gil Hodges (36)

Second Base
Jose Altuve (83)
Robinson Cano (48)
Ben Zobrist (29)

Third Base
Manny Machado (47)
Matt Carpenter (46)
Eugenio Suarez (34)

Shortstop
Trevor Story (45)
Andrelton Simmons (44)
Manny Machado (40)

Left Field
J.D. Martinez (90)
Yoenis Cespedes (30)
Khris Davis (30)

Center Field
Lorenzo Cain (46)
Harrison Bader (34)
Brandon Nimmo (33)

Right Field
Ichiro Suzuki (80)
Bryce Harper (46)
Paul Waner (34)

Starting Pitcher
Patrick Corbin (79)
James Paxton (69)
Larry Dierker (52)
David Cone (50)
Zack Wheeler (49)

Relief Pitcher
AJ Minter (44)
Adam Ottavino (43)
Greg Minton (33)

Closer
Sean Doolittle (71)
Will Smith (30)
AJ Minter (19)
Blake Trienen (19)

Note - This list is based on the player's primary position. If owners are using him at other positions, there would be separate instances of the player (such as AJ Minter appearing under both RP and CL). Also the count is by name and does not distinguish between multiple cards a player might have. I can get an overall count ignoring the primary position and also distinguish by separating multiple cards, but kept it simple for this list.