Dean or Greenberg

scott1964 · 08-10-2019, 08:19 PM

About to do my draft for 1932 and have a chance to draft either Dizzy Dean or Hank Greenberg. On my Senators' roster I can upgrade my 1B, Harry Davis (.271 9 HR 37 RBIs in 1932) and my starting rotation is Lefty Grove (25-13, 2.58), Schoolboy Row (13-10, 2.99) Dazzy Vance (20-15, 3.19) and Roy Sherid (14-9, 3.54). Vance is likely retire soon as he is 41.

Buster Cherry · 08-10-2019, 09:10 PM

Conidering that Dazzy Vance is 41 and that Lefty Grove will soon blow out his arm and be a shell of the pitcher he once was I would advise you to draft Dizzy Dean. But if Grove does not blow out his arm like he did in real life you'll still have two all-time greats in your rotation.

joefromchicago · 08-10-2019, 09:14 PM

No contest: Greenburg. You have a solid rotation already, while your current 1B is terrible.* Greenburg has plus-plus power and will give you years of service. Dean, if he's anything like the real Dean, will peak early and get injured on the down slope of his short career.

*seriously, the guy's nickname was "Stinky"

Buster Cherry · 08-10-2019, 09:22 PM

WWII service cut Greenberg's career short. He served in the military longer than any other major league ballplayer. That's something to consider too.

zappa1 · 08-11-2019, 05:45 AM

And a line drive off his toe led Dean to ruin his arm. Greenberg and rbi's. Dean had 4 good years and was gone. Some say the only reason he made the HOF is because he was the last 30 game winner until Denny McLain won 30+. Maybe the BBWAA just liked his nickname. Dizzy. Wow. Cool. Just my opinion. Dean doesn't belong in the HOF. Yeah, he got hurt, but he didn't do it long enough. A ton of pitchers have won over 150 games and are not in the HOF. Just trying to be nice to a guy with the funny nickname is all it is. That's the BBWAA for ya. Now everybody can jump on my post. Have fun. Knock yourself out.

Reed · 08-11-2019, 06:47 AM

How is the rest of the team? If your offense is average or better I would probably go with Dean.

scott1964 · 08-11-2019, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

How is the rest of the team? If your offense is average or better I would probably go with Dean.

Reed · 08-11-2019, 07:20 PM

I might go with Dean in this case but either choice would be good. Of course this opinion is not worth 2 cents.

Ty Cobb · 08-11-2019, 07:26 PM

Greenberg...a certifiable bad***...whereas Dean gets hurt young and stays hurt. zappa1 is dead on right—Dizzy was a great guy and gave the game some genuine color, but lots of other guys have won 150. He'd be more deserving to be voted in as a broadcaster because of his quirkiness.

Tiger Fan · 08-11-2019, 07:34 PM

How is your game setup? Are you using a recalculate ratings option or the OOTP development engine? Do you have miss seasons according to history enabled or not?

Really need to know that information before you should consider any advice worthwhile as it could make a huge difference.

Reed · 08-11-2019, 07:41 PM

As an experiment. Start 2 test leagues and put the AI in control. Do not allow trades. In one have Dean on the team and the other have Greenberg. Fast sim each 10 years and see which does better.

scott1964 · 08-11-2019, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

How is your game setup? Are you using a recalculate ratings option or the OOTP development engine? Do you have miss seasons according to history enabled or not?

Really need to know that information before you should consider any advice worthwhile as it could make a huge difference.

joefromchicago · 08-11-2019, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappa1

And a line drive off his toe led Dean to ruin his arm. Greenberg and rbi's. Dean had 4 good years and was gone. Some say the only reason he made the HOF is because he was the last 30 game winner until Denny McLain won 30+. Maybe the BBWAA just liked his nickname. Dizzy. Wow. Cool. Just my opinion. Dean doesn't belong in the HOF. Yeah, he got hurt, but he didn't do it long enough. A ton of pitchers have won over 150 games and are not in the HOF. Just trying to be nice to a guy with the funny nickname is all it is. That's the BBWAA for ya. Now everybody can jump on my post. Have fun. Knock yourself out.

I thought that this might be another instance of Frankie Frisch getting all of his drinking buddies into the HOF when he was on the veterans' committee. But turns out you're correct - the BBWAA voted Dean in on his eleventh try.

In 1945, Dean's first year of eligibility, he garnered a mere 6.9% of the votes. I don't hold that against him - in 1945 the writers were still trying to clear out a lot of the backlog of great baseball stars from the pre-HOF era, although they didn't give anyone the necessary 75% vote that year (the vets' committee inducted ten). By 1952, Dean had climbed the ladder and accumulated 65% of the votes. Close, but still a ways to go. So what got him over the top?

I would guess that Dean's popularity as a broadcaster may have had something to do with it. As a broadcaster, he was part of the media fraternity, so that might have made the writers more sympathetic to him, and his "aw shucks" style of broadcasting may have softened the memories of him during his playing days, when he was a bit of a jerk. But it was probably the movie "The Pride of St. Louis," which came out in 1952, that helped propel Dean into the Hall in 1953. The movie was a typical Hollywood biopic - long on sentimentality and drama, short on actual facts - but at least it wasn't pure fantasy like "The Winning Team," the story of another Cardinals pitcher (Ronald Reagan as "Pete" Alexander) that came out the same year.

I imagine that if a movie about the life of Jered Weaver comes out in 2022 ("The Pride of Anaheim?") it might help him get into the HOF too. After all, Weaver's career record (150-98) is similar to Dean's (150-83). Or maybe not. Dean had five outstanding years (two of which - 1934-35 - were simply incredible) and then he fell off a cliff. If the broken toe hadn't wrecked his career, though, sooner or later his arm probably would have fallen off due to the ridiculous number of innings he was pitching. So he's like countless major leaguers who showed unlimited potential early in their careers only to be derailed by injuries - the only difference being that those other guys didn't get inducted into the HOF. That's always a shame when that happens, but it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of What-Ifs.

Ty Cobb · 08-12-2019, 09:39 AM

Well said, Joe!

scott1964 · 08-13-2019, 04:17 PM

I decided to go with Hank Greenberg

Dizzy Dean is drafted by the Brooklyn Dodgers

08-10-2019, 08:19 PM	#1
scott1964 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 5,561 Blog Entries: 19	Dean or Greenberg About to do my draft for 1932 and have a chance to draft either Dizzy Dean or Hank Greenberg. On my Senators' roster I can upgrade my 1B, Harry Davis (.271 9 HR 37 RBIs in 1932) and my starting rotation is Lefty Grove (25-13, 2.58), Schoolboy Row (13-10, 2.99) Dazzy Vance (20-15, 3.19) and Roy Sherid (14-9, 3.54). Vance is likely retire soon as he is 41. __________________ This just feels more like waiting in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles. PETA.....People Eating Tasty Animals.

08-10-2019, 09:14 PM	#3
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,630	No contest: Greenburg. You have a solid rotation already, while your current 1B is terrible.* Greenburg has plus-plus power and will give you years of service. Dean, if he's anything like the real Dean, will peak early and get injured on the down slope of his short career. seriously, the guy's nickname was "Stinky" __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Last edited by joefromchicago; 08-10-2019 at 09:15 PM.*

08-11-2019, 07:26 PM	#9
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,952 Blog Entries: 67	Greenberg...a certifiable bad***...whereas Dean gets hurt young and stays hurt. zappa1 is dead on right—Dizzy was a great guy and gave the game some genuine color, but lots of other guys have won 150. He'd be more deserving to be voted in as a broadcaster because of his quirkiness. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

08-11-2019, 07:34 PM	#10
Tiger Fan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 9,541	How is your game setup? Are you using a recalculate ratings option or the OOTP development engine? Do you have miss seasons according to history enabled or not? Really need to know that information before you should consider any advice worthwhile as it could make a huge difference. __________________ Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles Columnist- The Figment Sporting Journal MY FIGMENT LEAGUE BROOKLYN KINGS DYNASTY PAST DYNASTYS My History of Hockey Replay Tiger Fan's Sporting News : the mid 1940's Tiger Fan's All Sport Replay: The 1920s History of Sports 1901-15 Historical Tutorial and Feedback League My first fictional attempt The HOB4: The last of my series of history of baseball replays that go back to OOTP2 and the old message board.

08-12-2019, 09:39 AM	#14
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,952 Blog Entries: 67	Well said, Joe! __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

08-10-2019, 09:10 PM	#2
Buster Cherry Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2019 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 297	Conidering that Dazzy Vance is 41 and that Lefty Grove will soon blow out his arm and be a shell of the pitcher he once was I would advise you to draft Dizzy Dean. But if Grove does not blow out his arm like he did in real life you'll still have two all-time greats in your rotation.

08-10-2019, 09:22 PM	#4
Buster Cherry Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2019 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 297	WWII service cut Greenberg's career short. He served in the military longer than any other major league ballplayer. That's something to consider too.

08-11-2019, 05:45 AM	#5
zappa1 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,876	And a line drive off his toe led Dean to ruin his arm. Greenberg and rbi's. Dean had 4 good years and was gone. Some say the only reason he made the HOF is because he was the last 30 game winner until Denny McLain won 30+. Maybe the BBWAA just liked his nickname. Dizzy. Wow. Cool. Just my opinion. Dean doesn't belong in the HOF. Yeah, he got hurt, but he didn't do it long enough. A ton of pitchers have won over 150 games and are not in the HOF. Just trying to be nice to a guy with the funny nickname is all it is. That's the BBWAA for ya. Now everybody can jump on my post. Have fun. Knock yourself out.

08-11-2019, 06:47 AM	#6
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	How is the rest of the team? If your offense is average or better I would probably go with Dean.

08-11-2019, 07:20 PM	#8
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	I might go with Dean in this case but either choice would be good. Of course this opinion is not worth 2 cents.

08-11-2019, 07:41 PM	#11
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	As an experiment. Start 2 test leagues and put the AI in control. Do not allow trades. In one have Dean on the team and the other have Greenberg. Fast sim each 10 years and see which does better.

08-13-2019, 04:17 PM	#15
scott1964 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 5,561 Blog Entries: 19	I decided to go with Hank Greenberg Dizzy Dean is drafted by the Brooklyn Dodgers __________________ This just feels more like waiting in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles. PETA.....People Eating Tasty Animals.