19th Century

RANGER11JP · 01-24-2017, 02:56 AM

Will some of the tools making the Negro Leagues possible be used to improve pre 1901 leagues to make them more useable and or flexible? History does say the game began in the 1840's. Just a thought.

Spritze · 01-24-2017, 12:55 PM

Actually the tools that make the minor leagues possible would also make true historical 19th Century play possible. All the leagues and teams and players would be possible in a truly historical fashion if 1871-1900 were minor leagues instead of major ones.

For OOTP18 the Federal League only exists through making it a top level minor league. The same could be done for the 19th Century more than likely. It might be a simple fix? If anyone is interested in that.

BaseballMan · 01-24-2017, 01:46 PM

If I can do it ootp can do it.

bwburke94 · 01-24-2017, 11:09 PM

And now that the limbo bug is gone for good, there should be no reason we can't play an accurate 19th century.

Le Grande Orange · 01-24-2017, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94

And now that the limbo bug is gone for good...

What's this? Limbo is gone for good? Hermes Conrad will not be pleased to hear that!

Spritze · 01-24-2017, 11:25 PM

Nor would Chubby Checker!

swampdragon · 01-25-2017, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Actually the tools that make the minor leagues possible would also make true historical 19th Century play possible. All the leagues and teams and players would be possible in a truly historical fashion if 1871-1900 were minor leagues instead of major ones.

For OOTP18 the Federal League only exists through making it a top level minor league. The same could be done for the 19th Century more than likely. It might be a simple fix? If anyone is interested in that.

But if they were minor leagues, the stats would be minor league stats and not carry over from 1900 to 1901. We need the truly historical major leagues.

Spritze · 01-25-2017, 07:31 AM

That would be best but it ain't happened in 15 years so I wouldn't hold my breathing.

Minors should be doable without any re-programming.

Since the consensus seems to be Majors or no change then there you have it.

BaseballMan · 01-25-2017, 12:20 PM

I dont think it would be that difficult do the Majors. You may have to move
teams when there are 3 leagues but we know the actual historical teams can be imported and the rookies imported to correct teams. Its just a matter
of having the computer releasing and signing players. It just needs a historical list that matches up with the schedule. Just grabbing data from baseball reference or retrosheet doesnt work by itself. If there is no trade date you need to make sure that team still has players before it folds.
No need to get fancy just sign and release players to start. If a team folds put all the players in the free agency pool.

In the league i've ran from 1871-1908 there is not much that could not be done automatically.
The only thing i did was sign and release players from a spreadsheet i have of transactions. The historical teams and players were imported by computer. Even having one league isnt a problem as you can have no playoffs or a playoff between 1st and 2nd teams.
If you are having a fantasy draft league then that would be up to you to make sure rosters had enough players.

swampdragon · 01-25-2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

That would be best but it ain't happened in 15 years so I wouldn't hold my breathing.

Minors should be doable without any re-programming.

Since the consensus seems to be Majors or no change then there you have it.

I think it's likely that going back and forth with a third major subleague would take considerable work that isn't going to happen. The question is whether we can now go back and forth from one subleague in 1871 to two in 1882, back to one in 1892, before ending with two subleagues from 1901 forward. The Players League and Union League can be done like they're doing the Federal League this year.

I've been trying to get this for about ten years now, and this seems to be the first time that it wouldn't be a major project. So I have hope.

swampdragon · 01-25-2017, 01:47 PM

Alternatives that would only involve being able to add a subleague one time:

1. The ability to start subleagues in 1892.
2. Starting in 1871 and making the American Association a minor league.

Neither one of those would be as good as full 19th century support, but both are better than having to start in 1901.

thehef · 01-25-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

That would be best but it ain't happened in 15 years so I wouldn't hold my breathing.

Minors should be doable without any re-programming.

Given the above as it would apply to pre-1901 majors, since the (likely) only drawback would be that pre-1901 leagues would all be minor-league, in comparison to the current OOTP functionality this would seem like a no-brainer. IMO, anyways...

BaseballMan · 01-25-2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I think it's likely that going back and forth with a third major subleague would take considerable work that isn't going to happen. The question is whether we can now go back and forth from one subleague in 1871 to two in 1882, back to one in 1892, before ending with two subleagues from 1901 forward. The Players League and Union League can be done like they're doing the Federal League this year.

I've been trying to get this for about ten years now, and this seems to be the first time that it wouldn't be a major project. So I have hope.

Why would it be that difficult? You could import the 3rd league teams with the American Association teams. Then the game just need to create a new league and move the correct teams there. The Union Association and Players league was only 1 year each so its not like creating a 3rd league every year.

Spritze · 01-25-2017, 07:39 PM

If it was easy it would already be done.

AFAIK Markus has no problem doing easy things as long as one or more customers benefit. Hard things only get done though if it benefits lots of customers or adds something awesome to the overall game.

BaseballMan · 01-25-2017, 07:47 PM

This is what i made to perform transaction in my 1871 league.
The managers are only on there because i didn't want to give control to the computer.
I try to keep it simple and the rookies all go to their actual historical teams so i don't have to mess with them.
Its not perfect but seems to work for me.
I could only uploaded up to 1890 but i have gone all the way to 1900. Then the automatic historical transactions kick in.
I have the Union Association in a separate spreadsheet.

The league abbreviations are there to remind me of where the player was. The NA would actually be AL or NL in the stats database for the computer to recognize the player.
I changed the National Association team ids, batting, pitching and fielding to NL so the game would import the players to the correct teams. I just changed the rest to AL.
You might have to have my 1871 start league and stats folder to understand what im talking about. Not sure if i made it clear.

01-24-2017, 02:56 AM	#1
RANGER11JP All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,353	19th Century Will some of the tools making the Negro Leagues possible be used to improve pre 1901 leagues to make them more useable and or flexible? History does say the game began in the 1840's. Just a thought. __________________ BASEBALL, HOCKEY AND BOXING FAN

01-24-2017, 12:55 PM	#2
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Actually the tools that make the minor leagues possible would also make true historical 19th Century play possible. All the leagues and teams and players would be possible in a truly historical fashion if 1871-1900 were minor leagues instead of major ones. For OOTP18 the Federal League only exists through making it a top level minor league. The same could be done for the 19th Century more than likely. It might be a simple fix? If anyone is interested in that. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

01-24-2017, 11:25 PM	#6
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Nor would Chubby Checker! __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

01-25-2017, 07:31 AM	#8
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	That would be best but it ain't happened in 15 years so I wouldn't hold my breathing. Minors should be doable without any re-programming. Since the consensus seems to be Majors or no change then there you have it. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

01-25-2017, 01:47 PM	#11
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	Alternatives that would only involve being able to add a subleague one time: 1. The ability to start subleagues in 1892. 2. Starting in 1871 and making the American Association a minor league. Neither one of those would be as good as full 19th century support, but both are better than having to start in 1901. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

01-24-2017, 01:46 PM	#3
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,266	If I can do it ootp can do it.

01-24-2017, 11:09 PM	#4
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,443	And now that the limbo bug is gone for good, there should be no reason we can't play an accurate 19th century.

01-25-2017, 12:20 PM	#9
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,266	I dont think it would be that difficult do the Majors. You may have to move teams when there are 3 leagues but we know the actual historical teams can be imported and the rookies imported to correct teams. Its just a matter of having the computer releasing and signing players. It just needs a historical list that matches up with the schedule. Just grabbing data from baseball reference or retrosheet doesnt work by itself. If there is no trade date you need to make sure that team still has players before it folds. No need to get fancy just sign and release players to start. If a team folds put all the players in the free agency pool. In the league i've ran from 1871-1908 there is not much that could not be done automatically. The only thing i did was sign and release players from a spreadsheet i have of transactions. The historical teams and players were imported by computer. Even having one league isnt a problem as you can have no playoffs or a playoff between 1st and 2nd teams. If you are having a fantasy draft league then that would be up to you to make sure rosters had enough players.

01-25-2017, 07:39 PM	#14
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	If it was easy it would already be done. AFAIK Markus has no problem doing easy things as long as one or more customers benefit. Hard things only get done though if it benefits lots of customers or adds something awesome to the overall game. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!