What am I doing wrong?

Fronzizzle · 03-31-2020, 06:52 PM

There's no way for this not to come off as whiny, but...

When I had OOTP '19, I got frustrated with it due to how my prospects (as the Tigers) developed. Or rather, never developed. The issue was only with real life players, once I started drafting fictional players, I was able to develop multiple All Stars and had a lot of success.

Now in OOTP '21, I'm having the exact same situation. I'm currently about 1/2 thru the 2022 season, and every single "top" prospect has decline/failed to develop. Mize, Manning, Skubal, Faedo, Wentz, Parades and Greene are all around 2.5 stars or less, with poor scouting reports and stats, too.

It wouldn't be so bad if they were balanced out by a prospect increasing, but none of the secondary players - Cameron, Hill, etc. - have developed, either.

I make sure to keep the players at a level that's appropriate for them, and in fact most if not all have dominated the low minors. But as soon as I put them in AAA and/or the majors, they stagnate or get worse.

I have no idea if there is something I'm doing or not doing that leads to this?

stevem810 · 03-31-2020, 07:22 PM

What is your Player Dev Budgets vs. League Average?

I might add, as a lifelong Tiger fan I hope you ARE doing something wrong because I want to see those guys have impact on our sorry team. ;-)

naturaldopamine · 03-31-2020, 07:36 PM

Lock your top prospects from auto-promotion & force them to start at the position you want them to develop them at. Follow them closely. 60% of the time it works every time.

stevem810 · 03-31-2020, 08:04 PM

That last line a Yogi Berra quote?

thesmokeshow · 03-31-2020, 08:10 PM

Not sure if it will make you feel better or worse. But I did my first save in OOTP 21 with the Tigers. And besides Mize, I developed all those guys into either All Stars or everyday players. Mize missed the entire season twice due to long term injuries. It turned him Fragile and he’s a 5th starter at best.

I used 18M in my player development budget and just did what the previous guy mentioned. Disabled auto-promotion/demotion and made sure they were at the level they were supposed to be.

Sometimes it just bad luck too. But if none of them developed, I’d say there is something that you could be missing. Feel free to ask any questions.

FWIW, I’m currently in ‘26 season and Riley Greene is a perennial MVP candidate. And Skubal is my #2 starter as a 4 star hurler.

jumpin_james · 03-31-2020, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevem810

That last line a Yogi Berra quote?

Nope. Brian Fantana (from Anchorman.)

jimmysthebestcop · 03-31-2020, 11:56 PM

Yes any of my solid prospects I manage myself. That means position, which level, promotion and demotion.

Skipping pitchers and catchers I don't really care that much what position they field at as long as they are hitting at the level they need to be at. For the most part if are drafting good or average defense guys they can usually play multiple positions anyway. Sometimes when a prospect comes out my system he might be trained at every spot except catcher.

The important thing is batting. I keep fielding cycling so hopefully they are trained up at their primary position. Real prospects don't get called up mid year unless disaster strikes. So they can always retrain at primary position during spring training. As long as they have some training if you do have to call them up it isn't a big deal.

When you let the AI setup your minor leagues they are looking at potential for each position. I want my 10 best guys hitting at each corresponding minor league level. I don't care if its 4 CF. Two of them can play other OF, DH, 1B, wherever.

Then when they are really shining and getting close to the majors is when you make a decision. If you are all of a sudden stacked at 1 position then you can swap prospects with another team and try to fill a need.

Also "STARS" aren't the entire story. You need to look at their stats. Stats will tell when they are ready to progress through each level. The stars just kind of show you who you should be looking at.

Example I might personally manage all of my 2.5 star potential guys myself in the minors. Anyone below that then I'll let the AI do it. If it is early in the rebuild I might manage anyone above 2 stars.

The stars are just there for you to kind of have a quick reference of who to pay attention to. Then you have to dive into the stats.

Fronzizzle · 04-01-2020, 10:43 AM

Thanks for the tips. I simmed the rest of the season (just after posting this) and a few of the players took a small step forward (Parades, Greene and Manning in particular). The rest of the crew stayed the same or went back further. My budget is in line now that Cabrera retired (thank god), so I can pump more money into development.

Shake Appeal · 04-01-2020, 10:47 AM

Could be worse. In my Tigers save, Manning was lights-out, pitched 10 or so scoreless major-league innings, then blew out his arm in his second career start and never recovered. He's a setup guy with poor command now.

Wentz also got hurt and bad. Mize is a pretty good number-three starter. Paredes is a decent starting 3B. Jake Rogers is a Fan Fav with back to back 1.5-2.0 WAR seasons. Riley Greene is crushing AA and about to come up. Willi Castro put up 3 WAR at 2B in 2021. Skubal I traded. The 2022 Tigers also have Evan White, Kiriloff, Swaggerty, a good Cole Tucker, and are above .500 a month into the season.

jimmysthebestcop · 04-01-2020, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fronzizzle

Thanks for the tips. I simmed the rest of the season (just after posting this) and a few of the players took a small step forward (Parades, Greene and Manning in particular). The rest of the crew stayed the same or went back further. My budget is in line now that Cabrera retired (thank god), so I can pump more money into development.

Don't forget to look at performance and stats. Young players with few years played their stars can vary greatly.

Its not the same as viewing a 5 year mlb pro ratings.

naturaldopamine · 04-01-2020, 01:58 PM

A lot of it is REPS. Just make sure your top players are getting tons of reps. Force start them so that they get as many IP and AB as possible. And as tempting as it is don't promote them too early. Don't follow the green/red arrows. I keep most of them at the same level for the entire season unless they're developing like a monster or hitting .383

03-31-2020, 06:52 PM	#1
Fronzizzle Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 177	What am I doing wrong? There's no way for this not to come off as whiny, but... When I had OOTP '19, I got frustrated with it due to how my prospects (as the Tigers) developed. Or rather, never developed. The issue was only with real life players, once I started drafting fictional players, I was able to develop multiple All Stars and had a lot of success. Now in OOTP '21, I'm having the exact same situation. I'm currently about 1/2 thru the 2022 season, and every single "top" prospect has decline/failed to develop. Mize, Manning, Skubal, Faedo, Wentz, Parades and Greene are all around 2.5 stars or less, with poor scouting reports and stats, too. It wouldn't be so bad if they were balanced out by a prospect increasing, but none of the secondary players - Cameron, Hill, etc. - have developed, either. I make sure to keep the players at a level that's appropriate for them, and in fact most if not all have dominated the low minors. But as soon as I put them in AAA and/or the majors, they stagnate or get worse. I have no idea if there is something I'm doing or not doing that leads to this?

03-31-2020, 07:36 PM	#3
naturaldopamine Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 142 Blog Entries: 2	Lock your top prospects from auto-promotion & force them to start at the position you want them to develop them at. Follow them closely. 60% of the time it works every time. __________________ "They don't think it be like it is, but it do." Oscar Gamble

03-31-2020, 08:04 PM	#4
stevem810 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sarasota Posts: 1,925	That last line a Yogi Berra quote? __________________ Julien Henri Version 21 https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...22#post4626122 Michigan Town Ball https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...28#post4630528

03-31-2020, 08:10 PM	#5
thesmokeshow Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 109	Not sure if it will make you feel better or worse. But I did my first save in OOTP 21 with the Tigers. And besides Mize, I developed all those guys into either All Stars or everyday players. Mize missed the entire season twice due to long term injuries. It turned him Fragile and he’s a 5th starter at best. I used 18M in my player development budget and just did what the previous guy mentioned. Disabled auto-promotion/demotion and made sure they were at the level they were supposed to be. Sometimes it just bad luck too. But if none of them developed, I’d say there is something that you could be missing. Feel free to ask any questions. FWIW, I’m currently in ‘26 season and Riley Greene is a perennial MVP candidate. And Skubal is my #2 starter as a 4 star hurler. Last edited by thesmokeshow; 03-31-2020 at 08:13 PM.

04-01-2020, 01:58 PM	#11
naturaldopamine Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 142 Blog Entries: 2	A lot of it is REPS. Just make sure your top players are getting tons of reps. Force start them so that they get as many IP and AB as possible. And as tempting as it is don't promote them too early. Don't follow the green/red arrows. I keep most of them at the same level for the entire season unless they're developing like a monster or hitting .383 __________________ "They don't think it be like it is, but it do." Oscar Gamble

03-31-2020, 07:22 PM	#2
stevem810 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sarasota Posts: 1,925	What is your Player Dev Budgets vs. League Average? I might add, as a lifelong Tiger fan I hope you ARE doing something wrong because I want to see those guys have impact on our sorry team. ;-) __________________ Julien Henri Version 21 https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...22#post4626122 Michigan Town Ball https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...28#post4630528 Last edited by stevem810; 03-31-2020 at 07:23 PM.

03-31-2020, 11:56 PM	#7
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	Yes any of my solid prospects I manage myself. That means position, which level, promotion and demotion. Skipping pitchers and catchers I don't really care that much what position they field at as long as they are hitting at the level they need to be at. For the most part if are drafting good or average defense guys they can usually play multiple positions anyway. Sometimes when a prospect comes out my system he might be trained at every spot except catcher. The important thing is batting. I keep fielding cycling so hopefully they are trained up at their primary position. Real prospects don't get called up mid year unless disaster strikes. So they can always retrain at primary position during spring training. As long as they have some training if you do have to call them up it isn't a big deal. When you let the AI setup your minor leagues they are looking at potential for each position. I want my 10 best guys hitting at each corresponding minor league level. I don't care if its 4 CF. Two of them can play other OF, DH, 1B, wherever. Then when they are really shining and getting close to the majors is when you make a decision. If you are all of a sudden stacked at 1 position then you can swap prospects with another team and try to fill a need. Also "STARS" aren't the entire story. You need to look at their stats. Stats will tell when they are ready to progress through each level. The stars just kind of show you who you should be looking at. Example I might personally manage all of my 2.5 star potential guys myself in the minors. Anyone below that then I'll let the AI do it. If it is early in the rebuild I might manage anyone above 2 stars. The stars are just there for you to kind of have a quick reference of who to pay attention to. Then you have to dive into the stats.

04-01-2020, 10:43 AM	#8
Fronzizzle Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 177	Thanks for the tips. I simmed the rest of the season (just after posting this) and a few of the players took a small step forward (Parades, Greene and Manning in particular). The rest of the crew stayed the same or went back further. My budget is in line now that Cabrera retired (thank god), so I can pump more money into development.

04-01-2020, 10:47 AM	#9
Shake Appeal Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 104	Could be worse. In my Tigers save, Manning was lights-out, pitched 10 or so scoreless major-league innings, then blew out his arm in his second career start and never recovered. He's a setup guy with poor command now. Wentz also got hurt and bad. Mize is a pretty good number-three starter. Paredes is a decent starting 3B. Jake Rogers is a Fan Fav with back to back 1.5-2.0 WAR seasons. Riley Greene is crushing AA and about to come up. Willi Castro put up 3 WAR at 2B in 2021. Skubal I traded. The 2022 Tigers also have Evan White, Kiriloff, Swaggerty, a good Cole Tucker, and are above .500 a month into the season.