Ever work a trade so good you think it would almost be cheating to take it?

Qeltar · 04-27-2018, 10:19 AM

I already decided not to take a deal where a team was willing to eat the salary of a mediocre SP who just got diagnosed with an injury that will end this season and even take him into next year. (Right after I splurged on the best trainer available who specialized in preventing arm injuries!) It just didn't feel realistic.

Now I have another trade lined up. I have a very good bullpen arm who I definitely need, but I just happen to have a lot of pretty good bullpen arms. I've been trying to shop him around since he has high trade value and is also in his late 20s. I have a team willing to trade me a top prospect plus a lesser prospect plus another bullpen arm (which I previously traded to them and is actually pretty good but not as good as the one I am trading, and is 4 years older.)

So basically, I give up setup/closer caliber guy for a setup caliber guy plus a top and marginal prospect. Also, I've noticed the AI doesn't seem to care much about money (at least for the high budget teams) so they are willing to retain all of the salary of the RP I'd be getting too!

Seems like a bit much. But OTOH, this team is in the playoff hunt, the guy I am trading is very good (85 stuff, 65 movement) and -- the other team just lost their closer for the year to an injury.

What do you think, am I being shrewd or exploitative?

Orcin · 04-27-2018, 10:31 AM

How were you able to trade a player that is injured? Do you have that option enabled? If so, that is certainly unrealistic.

As far as your other trade goes, I can't tell without knowing the prospects that you are getting back. By "top", do you mean top 100 in all of baseball or just one of their best? Are they pitchers or position players? Starting pitchers are worth more than relievers. Shortstops and center fielders with speed and power are worth more than corner players without speed or power. Too many variables to know whether you are getting fair value or not from your light description.

What is your trade difficulty setting? If you are on average, you might change it to hard/neutral and see what the other side says about the deal.

Qeltar · 04-27-2018, 10:41 AM

I have injured player trading enabled because I wanted the ability to possibly trade FOR injured players. This was the first time I ever even tried to shop a guy with a serious injury, and it was mostly out of curiosity. He's not without value, because he has a locked in contract for 2 years after that at a decent rate, and SPs are hard to come by. But it still seemed odd.

The other trade isn't terribly unbalanced. I think it's just a difference in valuation. They really, really like the guy I am offering -- much more than other teams (and I've tried many of them.) So it could be that their scout is just in love with the guy, and that happens IRL.

But basically I am offering an 85/65/35 closer for:
- A 3B prospect who is only 22 but already has 45/45/55/40/35 stats with 50/50/60/55/40 potential, good defense and average speed
- A rock solid 70/40/65 setup guy that they liked enough to trade for in the first place. (Though he IS 32 and this game seems to mercilessly slaughter veterans with injuries.)
- Another minor prospect who isn't great but isn't terrible -- has potential 70 contact.
- AND they are willing to eat all of the cost of the setup guy they are trading away.

If I change to hard, to make the trade work I have to remove the minor prospect and pay half the cost of the setup guy's salary I am getting. That seems more reasonable. Though it's still basically "grade A closer for grade B+ closer plus good prospect."

However, most trades I try with the AI involve them making ludicrous demands even on normal. With hard it will become nuts. So I may be better off leaving it on normal and just restraining myself when it's clear the AI is giving up too much.

Thanks for the reply.

PS I read another thread on this where someone suggested restraining themselves in terms of trade frequency and that may be another thing I need to do. I just realized I have made more than 30 trades in 2/3 of a season, and that doesn't happen IRL. So I'm going to force myself to tone it down.

texasmame · 04-27-2018, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

How were you able to trade a player that is injured? Do you have that option enabled? If so, that is certainly unrealistic.

IRL, injured players can be traded:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=217549

jaguar8311 · 04-27-2018, 10:48 AM

I always try to implement a house rule to not fleece the AI. Ask myself IRL if the other team would accept the trade or not

Qeltar · 04-27-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

IRL, injured players can be traded:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=217549

The problem is that the AI isn't tuned well enough yet to properly evaluate the impact of injuries on value.

This happens in both directions. I'll try to trade for a top prospect out with TJ surgery and the AI acts like he's perfectly fine and wants the sun and the moon for him. AND sometimes the AI will be willing to trade for injured guys of mine that effectively have no value at all.

Orcin · 04-27-2018, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasmame

IRL, injured players can be traded:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=217549

In real life, how often do you see a mediocre starting pitcher traded with an injury that is projected to keep them out for all of this season and part of the next? That was the instance under discussion. Enabling the ability to trade injured players and using it to trade a player under those circumstances is unrealistic.

LegalEagle80 · 04-27-2018, 11:45 AM

I think one definitely has to have house rules. In a real-life league controlling the Blue Jays, I offered Josh Donaldson (on an expiring deal) to the Red Sox at the deadline and they gave me back Mookie Betts (still under team control) plus a couple lesser prospects.

The real-life Sox have Devers there and wouldn't even use Donaldson as a DH with J.D. Martinez there, so it was just completely unrealistic, not to mention the idea of trading for a superstar without the knowledge they could resign him.

I didn't do the deal.

andjbock · 04-27-2018, 11:48 AM

Yes, but then I track the traded guys I unloaded and they are now (e.g.) their #4 hitter and the MR is now their closer.

Timofmars · 04-27-2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qeltar

The problem is that the AI isn't tuned well enough yet to properly evaluate the impact of injuries on value.

These things take time. I'm 40% sure this will be addressed by OOTPB 45.

04-27-2018, 10:19 AM	#1
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	Ever work a trade so good you think it would almost be cheating to take it? I already decided not to take a deal where a team was willing to eat the salary of a mediocre SP who just got diagnosed with an injury that will end this season and even take him into next year. (Right after I splurged on the best trainer available who specialized in preventing arm injuries!) It just didn't feel realistic. Now I have another trade lined up. I have a very good bullpen arm who I definitely need, but I just happen to have a lot of pretty good bullpen arms. I've been trying to shop him around since he has high trade value and is also in his late 20s. I have a team willing to trade me a top prospect plus a lesser prospect plus another bullpen arm (which I previously traded to them and is actually pretty good but not as good as the one I am trading, and is 4 years older.) So basically, I give up setup/closer caliber guy for a setup caliber guy plus a top and marginal prospect. Also, I've noticed the AI doesn't seem to care much about money (at least for the high budget teams) so they are willing to retain all of the salary of the RP I'd be getting too! Seems like a bit much. But OTOH, this team is in the playoff hunt, the guy I am trading is very good (85 stuff, 65 movement) and -- the other team just lost their closer for the year to an injury. What do you think, am I being shrewd or exploitative?

04-27-2018, 10:41 AM	#3
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I have injured player trading enabled because I wanted the ability to possibly trade FOR injured players. This was the first time I ever even tried to shop a guy with a serious injury, and it was mostly out of curiosity. He's not without value, because he has a locked in contract for 2 years after that at a decent rate, and SPs are hard to come by. But it still seemed odd. The other trade isn't terribly unbalanced. I think it's just a difference in valuation. They really, really like the guy I am offering -- much more than other teams (and I've tried many of them.) So it could be that their scout is just in love with the guy, and that happens IRL. But basically I am offering an 85/65/35 closer for: - A 3B prospect who is only 22 but already has 45/45/55/40/35 stats with 50/50/60/55/40 potential, good defense and average speed - A rock solid 70/40/65 setup guy that they liked enough to trade for in the first place. (Though he IS 32 and this game seems to mercilessly slaughter veterans with injuries.) - Another minor prospect who isn't great but isn't terrible -- has potential 70 contact. - AND they are willing to eat all of the cost of the setup guy they are trading away. If I change to hard, to make the trade work I have to remove the minor prospect and pay half the cost of the setup guy's salary I am getting. That seems more reasonable. Though it's still basically "grade A closer for grade B+ closer plus good prospect." However, most trades I try with the AI involve them making ludicrous demands even on normal. With hard it will become nuts. So I may be better off leaving it on normal and just restraining myself when it's clear the AI is giving up too much. Thanks for the reply. PS I read another thread on this where someone suggested restraining themselves in terms of trade frequency and that may be another thing I need to do. I just realized I have made more than 30 trades in 2/3 of a season, and that doesn't happen IRL. So I'm going to force myself to tone it down. Last edited by Qeltar; 04-27-2018 at 10:47 AM.

04-27-2018, 10:31 AM	#2
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	How were you able to trade a player that is injured? Do you have that option enabled? If so, that is certainly unrealistic. As far as your other trade goes, I can't tell without knowing the prospects that you are getting back. By "top", do you mean top 100 in all of baseball or just one of their best? Are they pitchers or position players? Starting pitchers are worth more than relievers. Shortstops and center fielders with speed and power are worth more than corner players without speed or power. Too many variables to know whether you are getting fair value or not from your light description. What is your trade difficulty setting? If you are on average, you might change it to hard/neutral and see what the other side says about the deal.

04-27-2018, 10:48 AM	#5
jaguar8311 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 213 Blog Entries: 1	I always try to implement a house rule to not fleece the AI. Ask myself IRL if the other team would accept the trade or not

04-27-2018, 11:45 AM	#8
LegalEagle80 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 113	I think one definitely has to have house rules. In a real-life league controlling the Blue Jays, I offered Josh Donaldson (on an expiring deal) to the Red Sox at the deadline and they gave me back Mookie Betts (still under team control) plus a couple lesser prospects. The real-life Sox have Devers there and wouldn't even use Donaldson as a DH with J.D. Martinez there, so it was just completely unrealistic, not to mention the idea of trading for a superstar without the knowledge they could resign him. I didn't do the deal.

04-27-2018, 11:48 AM	#9
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,621	Yes, but then I track the traded guys I unloaded and they are now (e.g.) their #4 hitter and the MR is now their closer.