Save Online League as Quick Start Exploit

[diehardsim]

The developers have decided to ignore my bug thread and don't allow you to email them directly so I'm posting here.

If you're interested in cheating in an OOTP17 online league simply save your online league as a quickstart and create a new game off that quick start as a commissioner. You'll have the option to sim games into the future, and view true ratings of all players.

This exploit has ruined a really critical element of our league. We may disband because of it.

[ohiodevil]

I doubt they are ignoring your post seeing as you posted the "bug" on a Saturday and they deserve some off time as well....plus I believe they are traveling or on vacation for the next week or two.....

But this sounds more like an issue with the people in your league as opposed to a "bug".

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

I doubt they are ignoring your post seeing as you posted the "bug" on a Saturday and they deserve some off time as well....plus I believe they are traveling or on vacation for the next week or two.....

But this sounds more like an issue with the people in your league as opposed to a "bug".

Launch was four months ago. I'm glad you're keeping up with their vacation schedule and that's something you've decided to remember. The bug report forum is absolute **** and rarely receives responses.

[ohiodevil]

Launch was four months ago. I'm glad you're keeping up with their vacation schedule and that's something you've decided to remember. The bug report forum is absolute **** and rarely receives responses.

Correct, launch was 4 months ago but you did not post your bug report until this past Saturday..... Maybe your tone is the reason you are not getting responses.

It's been exploited since launch and it wasn't an option in 16. Don't speak about my league members that way.

If this is something that is being exploited by the people in your league, then the problem does lie with the owners in the league...just because the exploit is there doesn't mean they have to use it....so again, it sounds like the problem lies with them, not fully on the game.

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Correct, launch was 4 months ago but you did not post your bug report until this past Saturday..... Maybe your tone is the reason you are not getting responses.



If this is something that is being exploited by the people in your league, then the problem does lie with the owners in the league...just because the exploit is there doesn't mean they have to use it....so again, it sounds like the problem lies with them, not fully on the game.

I've been told that the exploit was in 16 as well. It's a massive hole in the online league system and I think my tone is justified. I don't particularly see them fixing it. The exploit is used in others leagues.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by diehardsim

I've been told that the exploit was in 16 as well. It's a massive hole in the online league system and I think my tone is justified. I don't particularly see them fixing it. The exploit is used in others leagues.

Then again the problem lies with the people using a cheat to win.....

[StantonLikeMyDaddy]

Then again the problem lies with the people using a cheat to win.....

While amusing that you suppose that you can rely on 29 strangers on the internet to self-police themselves, your responses are neither helpful nor pertinent to the issue at hand. In other words, keep your suppositions to yourself.

He's identified a problem, and he's asking the developers to address it. The way to fix an exploit is not to say "don't use the exploit," but rather, fixing the exploit. That's what we're here to do.

[jpeters1734]

Who cares about tone. Anyways this is a critical bug and one that should have remained on the bug forum since now you have highlighted it and have made it even worse. I don't believe for a second that the dev team ignores that forum.

This does make me incredibly uncomfortable as a commish, but hopefully it will get sorted out.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by StantonLikeMyDaddy

While amusing that you suppose that you can rely on 29 strangers on the internet to self-police themselves, your responses are neither helpful nor pertinent to the issue at hand. In other words, keep your suppositions to yourself.

He's identified a problem, and he's asking the developers to address it. The way to fix an exploit is not to say "don't use the exploit," but rather, fixing the exploit. That's what we're here to do.

Where do you get off telling someone what they can and cannot say. Not your board, not your rules. I happen to agree with "ohiodevil" but felt no need to comment until now. My position is:

If it can be fixed it should be, but.......cheating is the responsibility of those who choose it. That's not a supposition, it's an opinion backed with simple facts.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Who cares about tone. Anyways this is a critical bug and one that should have remained on the bug forum since now you have highlighted it and have made it even worse. I don't believe for a second that the dev team ignores that forum.

This does make me incredibly uncomfortable as a commish, but hopefully it will get sorted out.

My comment on his tone was that he posted the bug on a weekend, then was getting mad because no one responded yet.....I know there are plenty of people around here that usually choose to not reply if the tone of the post seems a little hostile.

That being said, I agree that as a commish of an online league it would make me worried that people are cheating to win, and unfortunately that does seem to happen a lot in all genres of games, not just OOTP. You and I both know that Markus and crew do work hard to make OOTP a great game and I have no doubts they will look into this and if they can fix it, they will.

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by RchW

Where do you get off telling someone what they can and cannot say. Not your board, not your rules. I happen to agree with "ohiodevil" but felt no need to comment until now. My position is:

If it can be fixed it should be, but.......cheating is the responsibility of those who choose it. That's not a supposition, it's an opinion backed with simple facts.

It's an exploit, not a cheat. The function is built into the game. As a league commissioner I can't make house rules on this like I can with others flaws in this game.

[beorn]

Originally Posted by diehardsim

It's an exploit, not a cheat. The function is built into the game. As a league commissioner I can't make house rules on this like I can with others flaws in this game.

While I sincerely wish that you had not felt the need to post here, it's done, and the main thing is that we need to get the problem fixed. For anyone who knows the exploit, it is on the same level as obtaining the commish password -- and every commish I have ever known has refrained from posting that password, no knock on league members, but you just wouldn't do that.

Hopefully we will get a fix shortly.

[BeanballComin]

Does this mean I can't use my hex editor anymore?

[bwburke94]

Quickstarting is only a problem for leagues that make scouting useful. In a no-scout league with 1-20 or 1-100 ratings, it's fairly useless.

[jpeters1734]

I wonder how hard it would be to code a "kill switch" of sorts that would permanently disable the ability to see or change ratings in the editor. That would solve almost every instance of cheating.

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Quickstarting is only a problem for leagues that make scouting useful. In a no-scout league with 1-20 or 1-100 ratings, it's fairly useless.

Disagree. The actual ratings are on a much greater detail. You can also look at a ton of other "fog of war" data.

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I wonder how hard it would be to code a "kill switch" of sorts that would permanently disable the ability to see or change ratings in the editor. That would solve almost every instance of cheating.

The only solution is to disallow the ability to clone an online league as a quick start. I can't possibly see how this would be difficult given the game's tremendous flexibility.

[Sweed]

Actually they do allow you to PM or email them (Markus or Matt), simple as clicking their name and selecting the option in the drop down menu. I'm sure they aren't aware and when made so they will look at it asap. They sure as hell aren't ignoring your post, they just haven't seen it.

If I found a cheat/exploit such as this I would have hesitated to even post it in the bugs forum much less here. Posting here because you are mad isn't going to get if fixed any quicker. It will just open up a can of worms for any would be cheater that didn't already know. Unfortunately the horse can't be put back in the barn.

I don't nor ever will play online, simply can't wast my time wondering about who is doing what, but that's just me. The vast majority of players are honest and want a good game but it only takes one bad seed..

If I were you, or any online player that has read this thread, I'd be PMing Markus and Matt...

[diehardsim]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Actually they do allow you to PM or email them (Markus or Matt), simple as clicking their name and selecting the option in the drop down menu. I'm sure they aren't aware and when made so they will look at it asap. They sure as hell aren't ignoring your post, they just haven't seen it.

If I found a cheat/exploit such as this I would have hesitated to even post it in the bugs forum much less here. Posting here because you are mad isn't going to get if fixed any quicker. It will just open up a can of worms for any would be cheater that didn't already know. Unfortunately the horse can't be put back in the barn.

I don't nor ever will play online, simply can't wast my time wondering about who is doing what, but that's just me. The vast majority of players are honest and want a good game but it only takes one bad seed..

If I were you, or any online player that has read this thread, I'd be PMing Markus and Matt...

I think it's pretty bogus that the bug thread consists of hundreds of unanswered threads and a few with replies from some guy without a moderator tag replying with "This bug was squashed in earlier builds but may have popped up again. Many have of late. I'll update the Project Tool." When I had a problem with other software I'm given a case number and assurance that I'll be responded to within a certain period. Two weeks? Cool, I'll go do something else and come back.

The OOTP bug forums are full of unanswered of unresolved issues. I need the issue reviewed and resolved. I'm certain that the vocal majority on these boards is solo game focused and only find this post out of line because they lack perspective.

[ThePretender]

Originally Posted by diehardsim

Disagree. The actual ratings are on a much greater detail. You can also look at a ton of other "fog of war" data.

Yeah, his point is just wrong. For instance, in a 1-100 league, a guy will show on reports as "100", but only because the setting of don't show max > 100 is on. So, a guy with 100 stuff could be anywhere from 100-128. Makes a big difference if I know a 100-70-50 pitcher is actually 128-70-50. Same with a hitter who is 100-60-60-60-75. Could be 100 contact, 115, or 128. If I trade for a prospect like that, then they'll have no MLB data to use to evaluate the trade, but I'll know he's capable of maintaining a 330+ BA from the editor because I know he's a 128 contact bat.

If I can use the editor, and I see a defender is 85-80-40, I can give him 200 experience at a position and know his filled out defensive positional value. Let's say I guess it's 70, but with the editor I can confirm it's 75. Now I know he can play CF, and then I can trade for him whereas the other guy might think he's limited to LF.

In a 1-10 league, two players might be 7-7-7. If I know one player is 79-79-79, and another is 71-71-71, then there's a world of difference between the two. The first guy is a front of the rotation calibre player, whereas the second guy is closer to a mid rotation starter. Again, just being able to see the difference gives me a massive competitive advantage. I can see if a player is boosting or declining if he goes from 79-75, whereas in the 7-7-7 I won't see a boost or decline until he drops below 70 or goes above 79.

There are so many ways to abuse this and it's a huge problem for online leagues.