1903-2005 "what if"

[Impossible2Refute]

Alrighty, so I just simmed 102 years of professional baseball(using garlon's database). I started in 1903 because that is when the first world series was. This was kind of a "what if" league(simply to make it easier and faster to sim). What I mean by that is I left all the teams the same from 1903 and on. Now I did change some of the names like the Highlanders to the yankees and things like that. I also introduced the amatuer draft in 1903. The cool thing about a-rod/garlon's database is that they added some of the negro league players. I first noticed this when I saw Oscar Charleston. Others were Josh Gibson and Satchel Page. Free Agency came into play in 1977. 74 is when I introduced the DH(was supposed to be 73). I changed strategy as I saw fit. For example...would change how often someone stole bases and eventually changed 4-man rotation to 5. I'll give everyone the skinny on each of the teams...league championships and world championships and all that jazz.

Team W % League Champs World Champs
Boston Red Sox .502 17 8
Boston Braves .491 5 4
Brooklyn Dodgers .502 16 7
Chicago White Sox .495 13 6
Chicago Cubs .516 16 11
Cincinnati Reds .486 9 5
Cleveland Indians .507 14 9
Detroit Tigers .509 14 7
New York Yankees .482 7 1
New York Giants .492 8 4
Philidelphia Athletics .495 15 11
Philidelphia Phillies .496 10 4
Pittsburgh Pirates .518 23 11
St. Louis Browns .523 16 7
St. Louis Cardinals .501 16 7
Washington Senators .487 7 1

As you can see the Senators and the Yankees only won one world series. The cool thing about those victories is that they won them so late into the sim. The Senators first and only was in 1996. And the Yankees first and only was in 1989.

Hits Leaders (keep in mind there was an amatuer draft for every year after 1903. Also, I'm not listing players who played most of their careers before I started my simming. For example - Ed Delahnty would be 3)
1. Jim Bottomley PHI(N)/DET 4,057
2. Babe Ruth BOS(A) 4,038
3. Lou Gehrig CLE 3,915
4. Jeff Heath BOS(N)/CHI(N) 3,838
5. Dale Alexander STL(N)/PHI(A) 3,837
6. Mickey Cochrane CHI(A) 3,737
7. Lou Boudreau CIN/WAS/NY(N)/CHI(N) 3,729
8. Jimmie Foxx CHI(A)/STL(A) 3,717
9. Hal Trosky CHI(A)/PHI(N) 3,716
10. Johnny Mize WAS/CLE 3,687

Now you'll notice Ty Cobb (1,811) is nowhere to be found. His career was puzzling. He had a couple pretty darn good years, but all the sudden his ratings plummeted. Rose ended with 1,125 hits.

Frank Chance ended with 2,999
Will Clarked ended with 2,992

HR Leaders
1. Babe Ruth BOS(A) 1,008 - Had 59 twice, I'll do single season after this
2. Rudy York STL(N) 789
3. Roy Campanella PHI(A)/BOS(N) 738 - hit 0 homeruns with boston
4. Lou Gehrig CLE 728
5. Darryl Strawberry WAS/PHI(N)/BOS(N)/BOS(A)/NY(N)/CIN 625
6. Hal Trosky CHI(A)/PHI(N) 623
7. Mark McGwire BOS(A)/CLE 613
8. Wayne Belardi BOS(A)/STL(A) 610
9. Eddie Matthews CIN 596
10. Jeff Heath BOS(N)/CHI(N) 575

Barry Bonds had 510. Willie Mays had 173. Hank Aaron had 130.
Injuries ended McGwire's career early...otherwise would've probably had 100 or more homeruns.

Single-season homeruns
1. 69 - Mark McGwire - 1995
2. 65 - Wayne Belardi - 1955
3. 64 - Lou Gehrig - 1929
4. 63 - Wayne Belardi - 1956
5. 62 - Melvin Nieves - 2000
6. 59 - Babe Ruth - 1922/1925 Danny Tartabull -1987 Mark McGwire - 1990
7. 58 - Babe Ruth - 1930 Lou Gehrig - 1932 Mark McGwire - 1994
8. 57 - Lou Gehrig - 1930
9. 56 - Babe Ruth - 1920
10. 55 - Rudy York - 1950 Wayne Belardi - 1957

Triple Crown Winners
1929 - Lou Gehrig(CLE) - .400/64/173
1941 - Dom Dallessandro(STL Browns) - .335/27/96
1947 - Jeff Heath(CHI Cubs) - .367/34/129
1957 - Rudy York(STL Cards) - .343/52/129
2002 - Trot Nixon(NYG) - .334/45/122

I also had a full coaching system on so sometimes mediocre players would become great players and that's what happened to Trot Nixon. And that may be also what happened with Cobb and Rose and Aaron and Mays...perhaps they just did not develop properly. I'll talk about some pitchers that didn't develop in a little bit.

Dave Martinez was apart of one of the weirdest occurances I've ever seen. My ratings were all 1-10. Martinez's contact rating was an 8..so good, but not immortal or anything like that. The last time someone had hit .400 in a single season was I'm guessing in the early 50s. However, that all changed in 1994. Dave Martinez hit .410 for the Philadelphia athletics while winning the the MVP award for that season. I just finished the 05 season and he has not yet retired. his career average is .318. The year before he batted .386 and never even came close to that in any other year. And so you know it isn't the sample size...in 1994, Martinez had 588 at bats.

Wins leaders(Cy Young easily won but got most of his wins in the 19th century so I'm not adding him. He had 429.)
1. Bret Saberhagen CIN/NY(N)/CHI(N)/NY(A)/STL(A) 384
2. Steve Trout BRO/PIT/NY(A)/PHI(A) 338
3. Carl Hubbell BOS(A)/CHI(A)/CIN 319
4. Noodles Hahn CIN/CLE/PIT 315
5. Lynn McGlothen BOS(A)/STL(N)/BOS(N)/CHI(A)/STL(A) 305
6. Warren Spahn BRO 301
7. Erik Hanson PHI(N)/BOS(N)/STL(A)/BOS(A) 292
8. Dennis Blair NY(N)/DET 290
9. John Matlack CHI(A) 279
10. Gary Peters STL(N)/CHI(N)/DET 272

Now you are all probably noticing that most of these guys from the 70s and 80s and the reasoning for that is because the newest patch came out. I did 70 years and I was not about to start over. The new patch helped out a lot with the aging curves. Before I was using Seviien's aging and development modifiers. And I still am as he made new ones for the newest patch. The only guys on there that were there before the new aging patters are Hubbell and Spahn. Gary Peters was in the middle of his career when they started.

Bret Saberhagen became the greatest pitcher ever. Remeber how I said my rating scales were 1-10. Well he was a 10 on stuff, movement, and control. I did not do any tampering with it. Must have had some miraculous development. I want to bring one season to everyone's attention.

In 1988 Saberhagen went 20-4 with the Cincinnati Reds. That year he threw 268 innings and ended the season with a 0.97 ERA. His career ERA was 1.91. Hands down the greatest pitcher ever.

Now you're all probably wondering where are guys like Ryan, Clemens, Bob Gibson, and Greg Maddux. Well....they all had similar things happen to them like Cobb, Rose, Aaron, Mays...except way more extreme. After a couple season Clemens ratings were like 3 on stuff, 1 on movement, and 1 on control. Guys like Seaver and Carlton had pretty good careers.

Now I also inducted players into the hall of fame. I found it much easier to induct hitters because their development wasn't all screwed up for the most part. There were more great hitters than great pitchers.

Hitters inducted - 104
Pitchers inducted - 50


To conclude this post I would like to hear comments on the sim and would also like people to ask me questions about favorite players or even teams and I'll do research for it. I am kind of copying off of another fellows thread but I had a lot of fun looking through it so I thought that I would make one of my own. So Post Away!

[Raidergoo]

Can you post Bob Gibson's injury list?

Let's see as much as possible about Brett Saberhagen.

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Can you post Bob Gibson's injury list?

Let's see as much as possible about Brett Saberhagen.

Gibson had a 6 year career. In 610 innings he went 38-31 with an era of
3.85 which would've been higher than average for the time.

He got injured only twice and they were both minor. 1-2 weeks each. I guess injuries had nothing to do with his development.


Saberhagen
10 Cy Youngs - 17 All-star appearences.
He pitched 19 years spending most of his years with Cincinnati, the New York Giants, and the Chicago Cubs. His last 3 years were spent with New York and the St. Louis Cardinals. The first two of the last 3 with The Yankees. He put together 25 and 18 win seasons. His last season he had an 18 win season.

Naturally - being so much better than all the other pitchers - he was on a lot of league winning teams. He went to the world series 7 times.

88 - Cincy - lost series
91 - Giants - lost series
93 - Giants - lost series
96 - Cubbies - lost series
97 - Cubbies - lost series
98 - Cubbies - Won World Series!
99 - Cubbies - lost world series

So he only won 1 title in 7 tries.

In the playoffs he went 4-8 with a 2.44 ERA

led his league in wins 7 times
led his league in strikeouts 13 times (1992-2000) - 358 in 1996
led his league in ERA 12 times (1992-2001)
led his league in WHIP 16 times
Led his league in VORP 12 times - 143.3 in 1994
Led his league in shutouts 8 times.

Easily the best pitcher ever.

[metsgeek]

Wayne Belardi?? That's a name I don't recognize at all.

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by metsgeek

Wayne Belardi?? That's a name I don't recognize at all.

that's because he's not recognizable

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/belarwa01.shtml


because of the coaching some players were able to work miracles with their ratings. At least I think it's because of the coaching. I'm not quite sure.

[Impossible2Refute]

again, I encourage people to comment and ask questions about their favorite players, teams or anything else they'd like to know. It's fun looking through the league.

[Raidergoo]

Have you done a data dump and used any of the Anderson Utilities?

[Cowboys3356]

Great information although the number of successful "no names" is distrubing to me but I prefer things to be as historical as possible. Did you use the Arod/Garlon career avg database for imported rookies or did you just use their standard database for the whole thing?

Again, great work!

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Great information although the number of successful "no names" is distrubing to me but I prefer things to be as historical as possible. Did you use the Arod/Garlon career avg database for imported rookies or did you just use their standard database for the whole thing?

Again, great work!

just used their standard database

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Have you done a data dump and used any of the Anderson Utilities?

I'm not sure what this is....

[Raidergoo]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...lay.php?f=3633

You can do a CSV database dump, then go to Larry Anderson's website, and run small programs like AUCEI.

AUCEI will tell you every play who got a CEI, how, and when.

[ejbucs]

How about these 3 players?

Robert Clemente
Honus Wagner
Steve Blass

[Kelric]

How's about Tony Conigliaro, Carlton Fisk, Ted Williams and Josh Gibson? Gibson is almost always a monster in my historical sims.

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by ejbucs

How about these 3 players?

Robert Clemente
Honus Wagner
Steve Blass

Clemente
Roberto played his first 12 seasons with the Phillies. He was a bench player for most of his career. Played until 72...bounced around a lot. Played for 4 different teams in 72. He only had over 350 at bats twice. Went to the world series twice with the phillies. 61 and winning it in 62. He didn't have any at bats in either. Played the field in both. He really had a decent contact rating throughout most of his career at 8. However, his eye was a 3.

Honus Wagner
Wagner is one of my favorite players of all time. Recently came out with an autobiography if you're interested. His first 6 seasons were not in the sim since I started in 03. But I inducted him into the hall. Spent all of his years with Pittsburgh and a .309 career average. Over 2600 hits. He had some injury issues. He made it to the post season 5 times. 1903, 04, 05, 06, and 12. Winning it in 1903 and 1912. He got 1 MVP, 4 gold gloves, and 7 all-star appearences. If it weren't for injuries he would've had more awards. Also, the first 6 years of his career weren't in the sim.

Steve Blass
Steve Blass played for 1 year in 1964 and than his ratings shot down. He went 3-4 with a 3.12 ERA for the White Sox in 57.2 innings.

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Kelric

How's about Tony Conigliaro, Carlton Fisk, Ted Williams and Josh Gibson? Gibson is almost always a monster in my historical sims.

Tony Conigliaro
Conigliaro played from 63 to 68 with detroit. He had a career ending injury fracturing his knee. He had a decent career though. He got selected to the all-star team 3 times. He lost the world series with detroit in 66. He hit over 30 homeruns once and over 20 homeruns 3 times. Career average of .252.

Carlton Fisk
Fisk played for 12 seasons. His first 4 with the Boston Braves. Then 8 years with the yankees. then his last season with cleveland. Fisk was an all-star 3 times and got 1 gold glove. Had a career average of .271 and hit 175 homeruns. He went to the post season in 72 with the Braves and won the world series.

Ted Williams
Ted Williams played 16 years, and although he never hit .400, I still put him in the hall. His obp was .513 in 1942. He got 3 MVPs, rookie of the year, 2 gold gloves, and 9 all-star appearences. His glory years were with the white sox. Got drafted by them in 38 and was traded in 53, ending his career with cleveland. He ended his career with 2013 hits, 369 homeruns, .306 average, and .424 obp. He made it to the world series in 40, 42, 43, and 44, leading the white sox to the championship in 43 and 44.

[B]Josh Gibson[B]
Gibson did have a heck of a career. He played from 32 to 51. He spent his first 14 years with the Cubs. 6 of his last 7 with the Pirates. And one year with the White Sox. He had 2180 hits. 412 homeruns. career average of .270 and career obp of .371. He won 1 MVP, 4 gold gloves, and 7 all-star appearences. I inducted him into the hall. He also made it ot the post season in 35 and 36 with the Cubs. They won it all in 35.

[Raidergoo]

Kevin Mitchell

Joe Morgan

Harvey Haddix

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Kevin Mitchell

Joe Morgan

Harvey Haddix

Kevin Mitchell
Mitchell actually had a hell of a career.
1985-1992 Detroit
1993-1996 NY Giants
1997-2002 Senators

Mitchell hit 459 homeruns. Mitchell won 5 pennants with 3 different teams. twice with detroit. once with new york. twice with washington. However, he went 0-5 in the world series(bad luck). He went to 7 all-star games, and hit 40 homeruns twice. In 1996 with the Giants, and at the age of 38 in 2000 with the Senators. Had over 2400 hits.

Joe Morgan
Now I'm not a big fan of Morgan as a commentator but just like in real life, he was one of the best second basemen ever.
1964-1972 Phillies
1973-1981 Browns

Morgan's career average was .295 with a career obp of .420. Hit over 300 homeruns. and had over 2400 hits. Unfortunately he never made the playoffs. Don't let the somewhat low career numbers fool you. This guy played in a major pitchers era. He led his league in runs 3 times. He led the league in walks 6 times. Led the league in intentional walks 5 times. Led the league in obp 7 times. Sluggling percentage twice. He got 5 mvps, 5 gold gloves, and made the all-star game 14 times.

Harvey Haddix
Haddix played from 52 to 62 with the Boston Braves. He was never more than a backup with a season high of 89 at bats. career average of .210. However, in 52 and 53 he won back to back world series titles with the Braves. He went 3 for 9 with a walk, a double, and 3 rbis in those championships combined.

[Raidergoo]

Um, how did Harvey Haddix pitch?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/haddiha01.shtml

[Impossible2Refute]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Um, how did Harvey Haddix pitch?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/haddiha01.shtml

ha ha...sorry...haddix was before my generation.

Haddix's good years on the mound were 52 through 56. Passed 20 wins once with 24 in 1954. He went 95 and 79 with a 3.86 ERA. Like I said previously..he made one all-star team, and won back to back world championships with the braves in 52 and 53. In the postseason he went 3-1 with a 1.97 ERA in 32 innings pitched.

[illeracula]

What about these guys:
Dave Winfield
Don Mattingly
Rey Quinones
Dave Kingman

Thanks...