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Old 06-05-2006, 11:59 PM   #21
Jestre
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Having no structured minor leagues with Major league attachment is actually historical for much of the early days of baseball. Having a 'pool' of minor leaguers that each team can tap into to add to the MLB roster is historical for most teams thru the first 2-3 decades of modern baseball. Minor league teams were completely independant from the majors and sold players on a first come/best offer basis to the MLB teams.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:16 AM   #22
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I imported the 1990 season from Lahman, set the active roster to 25, had no expanded rosters or secondary rosters and only added AAA.

I turned off the auto import historical player creation and set player creation to 0.1 to make the fakes be very poorly rated, as suggested.

It still didn't work. Worse, the AI put the horrible players on the active roster and some highly rated real players were in AAA.

I still don't understand why, in an inaugural draft, the active and minors don't fill up with real players as happened before in previous OOTP versions. There are more than 25 players per team in the 1990 database and the extras should be drafted into the minors when you set a 50-round draft with a 25-player roster.

Why won't this work?

As to why the minors are important, I want stats. The reserve system doesn't create a stat history, does it?

Why would this be so hard to program since it was allowed in previous OOTP versions? It's simply a matter of drafting and placing them on the team's roster.

If this isn't close to a simple patch, then I agree with the posters above that OOTP 2006 can no longer be taken seriously as the best baseball sim on the market. It has the depth to blow everything away, but not if you can't play purely historical.
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Old 06-14-2006, 05:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasnell
I imported the 1990 season from Lahman, set the active roster to 25, had no expanded rosters or secondary rosters and only added AAA.

I turned off the auto import historical player creation and set player creation to 0.1 to make the fakes be very poorly rated, as suggested.

It still didn't work. Worse, the AI put the horrible players on the active roster and some highly rated real players were in AAA.

I still don't understand why, in an inaugural draft, the active and minors don't fill up with real players as happened before in previous OOTP versions. There are more than 25 players per team in the 1990 database and the extras should be drafted into the minors when you set a 50-round draft with a 25-player roster.

Why won't this work?

As to why the minors are important, I want stats. The reserve system doesn't create a stat history, does it?

Why would this be so hard to program since it was allowed in previous OOTP versions? It's simply a matter of drafting and placing them on the team's roster.

If this isn't close to a simple patch, then I agree with the posters above that OOTP 2006 can no longer be taken seriously as the best baseball sim on the market. It has the depth to blow everything away, but not if you can't play purely historical.
Trust me I am with you on this Rasnell. I think that there is a bit of a divide on the board here about Historical replay and managing a team. The whole thing I want to do is manage a team with a historical replay behind me, if you know what I mean. I understand the idea behind a reserve roster as a de facto minors system, that fine. And I keep playing around with different sims styles to figure out how to best make the game do what I want it to do.
Basically, I want to do a historical replay, and take over a team and GM after I have a nice, traditioned replay behind it. I know there is probably a way that I could cut and past a few database histories together to accomplish this, but that would not be as much fun as getting to watch it yourself, follow careers, edit the leage and what not. Which is too bad in this version because so many things are great. Expansion will be fairly easy, and I have grown to love the interface and I love the new "scout world" features, that is so important to modern baseball.
And i respect LGO and Tigerfans perspective and insight, but I want the best of both worlds.
I also like the fact that I help decide how a player develops. Yeah, I can do a sim from 1901 until I want to take over a team. And I will import rookies to my team, but if I can just place them on a "reserve" roster and they develop independantly of my management, well, not quite so much fun.
But I am having a great time with the game, but this is an issue.
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:03 PM   #24
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Sounds like we have the same goals as far as play. I just don't understand why the fix would be so difficult.

Allow the database to import just like it did in previous versions. A 25-player active roster with AAA would leave plenty of real players in a season to fill during an inaugural draft.

To me, the more troubling problem is why the AI selected the fake, horribly rated players on the active roster and left real stars in the minors after the inaugural draft and after I ran computer manager on all teams.

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Old 06-14-2006, 06:36 PM   #25
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Well what worked for me was to keep the minors unnafiliated with the majors for the first couple of years, this way they accumulate a history without any MLB players dominating from day one. and if a couple of good fictional players were created they were identified and fixed.
When I checked my rosters, there were only a couple of teams that had brought up a fictional player, and both times they were buried on the depth chart, so I just deleted them.
I also do not mind if one or two sneak through, and so far that has been the case.
Are you doing draft to begin the year? Are the fictional players bad right out of the gate? I thought I read some where that the modifiers might not work right season one, but I am not sure.
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Old 06-14-2006, 07:04 PM   #26
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I gave up on trying to incorporate the minors into my historic league and settled for using the reserve roster. It seems to be the best solution (for me) considering the roster problems.

I'll just keep playing and learning the game, and hopefully these roster problems will be resolved in patch 2.
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Old 06-18-2006, 11:09 AM   #27
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I think what I will do is to create an historical league with no minors, turn the PCM off and then after I import I will turn the PCM back on so that in June I can run an amateur draft os lets say 7 rounds, then if possible turn the pcm off before importing the next year and on for a June draft. this way I can create a few extra minor leagurs to compliment the very few major leaguers that import every year. This might work and give a little mor feeling of the real major leagues.

Right now I am just waiting for patch2 to come out hopefully it will come out in segments
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Old 06-18-2006, 12:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasnell

To me, the more troubling problem is why the AI selected the fake, horribly rated players on the active roster and left real stars in the minors after the inaugural draft and after I ran computer manager on all teams.
I'm running a league with historical players, full minors, with fictional players set to AAA abilities (modifiers of .8 times the historical number). Even though those players are pretty good in relation to yours, the computer manager will generally get it right in the end. Remember that its scouting is imperfect. By the time you're through spring training, my guess is that all but the most putrid of the real players will be on the major league roster. Of course, only a human is stupid enough to run a 2006 Jose Lima out there every fifth day, and you'll find other examples. But by and large, the game gets it right eventually.
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Old 06-18-2006, 12:37 PM   #29
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So if the default pcm is 1.000 your is .800 or .080
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Old 06-18-2006, 05:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon
I'm running a league with historical players, full minors, with fictional players set to AAA abilities (modifiers of .8 times the historical number). Even though those players are pretty good in relation to yours, the computer manager will generally get it right in the end. Remember that its scouting is imperfect. By the time you're through spring training, my guess is that all but the most putrid of the real players will be on the major league roster. Of course, only a human is stupid enough to run a 2006 Jose Lima out there every fifth day, and you'll find other examples. But by and large, the game gets it right eventually.
What i have noticed when the bad fictional player is on a major league roster, it has been because the "real player" they are promoted above hs no defensive ratings for that position of need. For example, George Bell in 1990 was in AAA despite having very good batting ratings and decent defensive ratings (it was either for left or right, cannot remember which exactly) and no ratings for any other outfield postition, so the computer AI had to promote somone ahead of him who had a rating at that position, even though they had 1's and 2's across the board (this was with scouting off). I do am not sure yet how prevelant this is in the databases, maybe Bell only played one outfield position in that import year thus only getting a rating at that position. But for the most part it was not that big, or wide spread as far as I could tell.
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Old 06-18-2006, 05:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by targy
I think what I will do is to create an historical league with no minors, turn the PCM off and then after I import I will turn the PCM back on so that in June I can run an amateur draft os lets say 7 rounds, then if possible turn the pcm off before importing the next year and on for a June draft. this way I can create a few extra minor leagurs to compliment the very few major leaguers that import every year. This might work and give a little mor feeling of the real major leagues.

Right now I am just waiting for patch2 to come out hopefully it will come out in segments
If you do not have minors, then it is unnecessary to create any fictional players, because the imported players will progress on the reserve roster, and you will avoid having the "not enough players" problem. ANd the PCMs wont affect the imported players, only created players (if my understanding of this is correct)
But, if you are waiting for patch 2 you have some time to mess around with every ones different methods to see what works the best for you.
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Old 06-18-2006, 05:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by turdfurgeson
ANd the PCMs wont affect the imported players, only created players (if my understanding of this is correct).
Correct, because I played with this using extreme values (100+) with no effect on imported players.
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Old 06-18-2006, 07:56 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turdfurgeson
What i have noticed when the bad fictional player is on a major league roster, it has been because the "real player" they are promoted above hs no defensive ratings for that position of need. For example, George Bell in 1990 was in AAA despite having very good batting ratings and decent defensive ratings (it was either for left or right, cannot remember which exactly) and no ratings for any other outfield postition, so the computer AI had to promote somone ahead of him who had a rating at that position, even though they had 1's and 2's across the board (this was with scouting off). I do am not sure yet how prevelant this is in the databases, maybe Bell only played one outfield position in that import year thus only getting a rating at that position. But for the most part it was not that big, or wide spread as far as I could tell.
I would just edit Bell to give him a logical defensive rating for the position. That's a Lahman issue, not a game issue.
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Old 06-18-2006, 07:58 PM   #34
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So if the default pcm is 1.000 your is .800 or .080
.800. That's approximately AAA level. Of course, since I'm in 1871 those numbers vary by attribute. The power number is .083, for example, because the major league PCM for power for 1871 is .104.
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Old 06-18-2006, 09:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampdragon
I would just edit Bell to give him a logical defensive rating for the position. That's a Lahman issue, not a game issue.
Yeah, that was what I did, and kinda what my point was. I think that many people were quick to blame the AI for mishandling transactions and rosters when they were only working with what they are given, and did not really look into why the AI made this decision.
Some other AI issues that people complained about (like real players are free agents who are better than the fictional players who are on a roster) were not there when I turned financials off as a test. Those players quickly found homes on MLB rosters and the Free Agents were all fictional players. So it seemed that the AI was judging talent correctly,and making correct decisions, but were also working within the framework that it had to work with.

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Old 06-18-2006, 09:47 PM   #36
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Could you start with just a reserve roster for just the first 3-4 seasons or so and then add a Triple-A at that point to house some of these players?

Also, what is a good # of rounds to use in the draft and does it make sense to add more rounds as you get deeper into history?
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Old 06-18-2006, 10:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Could you start with just a reserve roster for just the first 3-4 seasons or so and then add a Triple-A at that point to house some of these players?

Also, what is a good # of rounds to use in the draft and does it make sense to add more rounds as you get deeper into history?
If I remember correctly you can. But you have to have your minors added at creation because you cannot add them later. I think ( if I remember correctly), was to keep all the minor league teams unnafiliated with any majors club. This allowed the majors to have a reserve roster, and later you can affiliate the minors as more players come into the league.

When minors are not affliated with the majors, you have to fill the leagues with fictional players from the set up screen. Then when I affliated the leagues later I would hold a March 1st ( after players imported to correct teams)draft of really bad fictional players of 5 rounds. Then after the draft was over, I would change the settings back to import to correct teams (becasue it was still pre season). I played with this from about 1910 to 1945 without any problems or roster issues, and held a 5 round "fake draft" about once every 5 years. I think I have it all detailed on one of these threads.
Here is the link, its ths last post
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=123337

Last edited by turdfurgeson; 06-18-2006 at 10:33 PM.
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