This is unacceptable.... - Page 3

<Pion> · 05-06-2019, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiDesertAce

we are definitely different users and we are both interested in the unsung heroes at the iron level. so that is our only connection as we have corresponded in the past about them but i don't think webdox knew this when he posted in this thread.

i am following the guidelines set up by the devs. they have clearly stated that you can run a theme team. My theme is unsung irons.

so sorry if you don't like it X2NIEZE. please add either of my other accounts at perfect level as your friend:

HiDesertAce

Vinnipeg

That way I can play with one of my "whale" teams.

So this was the team you threatened to sue the developers over if they tried to stop you?

dkgo · 05-06-2019, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

The developers have repeatedly said that they do not publicize their enforcement actions. I assume that they are being enforced. They do nothing until someone is reported. After the report, they investigate including asking the accused to explain their actions. Then they make a decision and move on. At no time do they stop to ask the forum what to do, nor do they tell the forum what they did.

True but I have yet to see anyone say they have had action taken against them.

Maybe I missed it but as someone who's been on a lot of forums for games, there would be new threads from people complaining about any action against them

HRBaker · 05-06-2019, 08:05 PM

Lets look at a scenario that puts this argument into perspective. This isn't hypothetical - it's my current league.

There is a Whale in one of our divisions that has 21(21!) Perfect Players on the active roster, and the remaining 4 players are 99,99,99, and 96. As if that wasn't depressing enough, there are 8 more Perfect Players - and 6 more Diamond Players on the Reserve List.

Now, I have no idea how this team accumulated that many top-rung players, but I could make a pretty good guess it involved a lot more cash rather than luck. I'm guessing there's probably close to $1000 in this team.

Here's my point. I have no idea how many (if any) players he has inactive - but whether he does or not he certainly could have them if he wants them.

So, what if he decided to "tank". FIll his active player list with golds or silvers to drop a few levels and start over with a theme team - selling off some number of top-rung cards to finance it if he didn't want to spend more than he already has?

Do you honestly think OOTP is going to stop him He just invested a thousand dollars into the game, and likely will spend more as time goes on or in future versions.

In fact - who's to say he doesn't have the right to do that? He DID spend $1000 and has some expectations. And I have to say - as much as I hate admitting it, I would likely feel the same way.

Therefore, any "rules" OOTP puts in place must take into consideration that they are not restricting people spending money to a point they will stop spending money. Punishments for tanking are likely to be "minor" - more likely to be a suggestion than a billy-club.

That's what tends to drive me to my comment above... if the team has shown some kind of liquidation of his assets to make significant changes in his team, then it's difficult to claim he hasn't paid a price for his actions.

And ultimately, he's only trading a player for points anyway - so anytime he wants he can buy the players back.

waittilnextyear · 05-06-2019, 08:13 PM

I don't see the problem. As long as he's being a punching bag for all opponents equally, so what? If he plays his A team against you then subs them all out to face another team, then I could see the argument.

The devs should probably be clearer about their stance on these types of things.

X3NEIZE · 05-06-2019, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Lets look at a scenario that puts this argument into perspective. This isn't hypothetical - it's my current league.

There is a Whale in one of our divisions that has 21(21!) Perfect Players on the active roster, and the remaining 4 players are 99,99,99, and 96. As if that wasn't depressing enough, there are 8 more Perfect Players - and 6 more Diamond Players on the Reserve List.

Now, I have no idea how this team accumulated that many top-rung players, but I could make a pretty good guess it involved a lot more cash rather than luck. I'm guessing there's probably close to $1000 in this team.

Here's my point. I have no idea how many (if any) players he has inactive - but whether he does or not he certainly could have them if he wants them.

So, what if he decided to "tank". FIll his active player list with golds or silvers to drop a few levels and start over with a theme team - selling off some number of top-rung cards to finance it if he didn't want to spend more than he already has?

Do you honestly think OOTP is going to stop him He just invested a thousand dollars into the game, and likely will spend more as time goes on or in future versions.

In fact - who's to say he doesn't have the right to do that? He DID spend $1000 and has some expectations. And I have to say - as much as I hate admitting it, I would likely feel the same way.

Therefore, any "rules" OOTP puts in place must take into consideration that they are not restricting people spending money to a point they will stop spending money. Punishments for tanking are likely to be "minor" - more likely to be a suggestion than a billy-club.

That's what tends to drive me to my comment above... if the team has shown some kind of liquidation of his assets to make significant changes in his team, then it's difficult to claim he hasn't paid a price for his actions.

And ultimately, he's only trading a player for points anyway - so anytime he wants he can buy the players back.

I can't argue with your logic, but if OOTP devs says tanking isn't allowed than that's a thing.

What bothers me the most is that who would ever want to play Iron players only in a competition that doesn't restrict you from other tier? meaning he will lose loads even in the Iron league.... this to me screams an excuse to tank only to rename the team once in Iron league, equip his "A" team and farm PP.... I'm not saying he will do that but I guess we can follow and see how long these Iron-only players will stick to their Iron-only teams....

If I see this Unsung Iron in 7-10 weeks with only his Unsung Iron heroes, than I stand corrected, but call me cynical, I bet we won't see this teams once they hit Iron level

dkgo · 05-06-2019, 08:29 PM

each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players

boom problem solved

old timer · 05-06-2019, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

I can't argue with your logic, but if OOTP devs says tanking isn't allowed than that's a thing.

What bothers me the most is that who would ever want to play Iron players only in a competition that doesn't restrict you from other tier? meaning he will lose loads even in the Iron league.... this to me screams an excuse to tank only to rename the team once in Iron league, equip his "A" team and farm PP.... I'm not saying he will do that but I guess we can follow and see how long these Iron-only players will stick to their Iron-only teams....

If I see this Unsung Iron in 7-10 weeks with only his Unsung Iron heroes, than I stand corrected, but call me cynical, I bet we won't see this teams once they hit Iron level

As someone who's spent a fair bit of money in PT20, I'd like to share one little observation relating to PP. The most PP I've made in a season so far was 26k and compared to what I'm spending that amount hardly makes any difference. I can't imagine making enough PP from achievements to make a difference, but maybe I'm wrong and some teams can make a lot more PP than I realize?

In other words, if someone has spent a lot of money on a team, then the PP earned from achievements won't likely ever matter much so tanking just to make more PP doesn't make much sense to me. But if someone has knowledge to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear about it.

HRBaker · 05-06-2019, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players

boom problem solved

That would force a team wanting to move down to divest itself of the better cards..... maybe not perfect (pun intended), but I like the idea.

waittilnextyear · 05-06-2019, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players

boom problem solved

I don't really like any idea that takes the user's freedom away from how they want to build their own team. As long as we're not exploiting anything, it should really be up to us. Leave all the restrictions on the table for more specific tournaments to play in.

HiDesertAce · 05-06-2019, 08:48 PM

here is the top of my roster. If I set up the AI to run the team its at best a 500 team against weakish perfect leagues. if i run the team i may consistently be .500

In my earlier post I said that this was my collections team. And that I had linked up with dishnet's MLB Theme league members it was going to become a Dodgers theme team. Unfortunately, the majority of the members of that league are not together yet and are spread out over several levels. until that league starts i am running a theme team.

I may decide to change the theme team each week. Next week I could be the SILVER SURFERS. Will play all silver level historical

Two weeks ago I was the GOLDEN BOYS. all gold historical. theme team. won the Diamond Level Championship.

This also my tournament account for when they start. So i would like to learn more about some of these cards. And I hope there will be an all iron tourney.

So I decided to be the IRON HEROES this season. last season i started using all unsung hero IRON as well.

HRBaker my family has an account in that league as well. Weldon Springs right? Thats the most expensive roster I have ever seen.

HRBaker · 05-06-2019, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiDesertAce

HRBaker my family has an account in that league as well. Weldon Springs right? Thats the most expensive roster I have ever seen.

Winter Springs, yes. Thank God their not on my schedule.

dkgo · 05-06-2019, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

I don't really like any idea that takes the user's freedom away from how they want to build their own team. As long as we're not exploiting anything, it should really be up to us. Leave all the restrictions on the table for more specific tournaments to play in.

I would argue that having a team that everyone can see is way too good for their level is exploiting something by definition.

if you've got a dozen diamonds at iron everything is not on the up and up

waittilnextyear · 05-06-2019, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

I would argue that having a team that everyone can see is way too good for their level is exploiting something by definition.

if you've got a dozen diamonds at iron everything is not on the up and up

I disagree that someone simply having a really good team is an exploit somehow. This is coming from a F2P'er as well.

HRBaker · 05-06-2019, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

I would argue that having a team that everyone can see is way too good for their level is exploiting something by definition.

if you've got a dozen diamonds at iron everything is not on the up and up

It happens all the time for the "deep pockets". Start a new team and immediately dump $300-500. into it and your start your climb, bashing everyone and earning pps like crazy in the process.

What ironic is if you do it on your way up, everything is legal - but you do it on your way down, and it's considered illegal.

X3NEIZE · 05-06-2019, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBaker

It happens all the time for the "deep pockets". Start a new team and immediately dump $300-500. into it and your start your climb, bashing everyone and earning pps like crazy in the process.

What ironic is if you do it on your way up, everything is legal - but you do it on your way down, and it's considered illegal.

The point is that if you dump cash well, you spent cash, but you aren't allowed to go all the way up and then down only to go up again once you hut IL and slot all those perfects..... regardless of the money spent.

It's a gray line, I don't see it being good for anyone.... If you spent $$$ when you start, well you're going to be going up fast, but don't you see an issue with those people going down only to bash their way up again? it's a slippery slope.... The game profits from people spending money, it is what it is, eventually these people end up playing DL or PL and they stay there.... but the game has zero benefits from exploiting by going yo-yo, it will suck the fun of people really trying in those lower leagues...wait till a few hundred roll an Iron Team once they win a DL or PL..

HRBaker · 05-06-2019, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

The point is that if you dump cash well, you spent cash, but you aren't allowed to go all the way up and then down only to go up again once you hut IL and slot all those perfects..... regardless of the money spent.

It's a gray line, I don't see it being good for anyone.... If you spent $$$ when you start, well you're going to be going up fast, but don't you see an issue with those people going down only to bash their way up again? it's a slippery slope.... The game profits from people spending money, it is what it is, eventually these people end up playing DL or PL and they stay there.... but the game has zero benefits from exploiting by going yo-yo, it will suck the fun of people really trying in those lower leagues...wait till a few hundred roll an Iron Team once they win a DL or PL..

That why I like dkgo's idea....

Each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players. I haven't thought about the right numbers, but maybe OVR could be used to create a ceiling for each level. That way if you want to drop 3 levels your going to have to dump some players. If your a true card collector, you won't want to do that. If your only interested in competing more equally, it probably wouldn't matter to you to thin out your roster.

X3NEIZE · 05-06-2019, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBaker

That why I like dkgo's idea....

Each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players. I haven't thought about the right numbers, but maybe OVR could be used to create a ceiling for each level. That way if you want to drop 3 levels your going to have to dump some players. If your a true card collector, you won't want to do that. If your only interested in competing more equally, it probably wouldn't matter to you to thin out your roster.

I'm on-board with something like that... or lock the higher level cards for x number of seasons, some logic applies.

The one thing to consider is that when enough stacked teams compete, your bound to drop tiers and you shouldn't be forced to selling higher level cards.

OMGPuppies · 05-06-2019, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

There are rules...

How much money have you spent? Your team is ridiculous.

DonkeyKongSr · 05-07-2019, 12:38 AM

I myself am a mega-collector and Unsung Iron enthusiast (see below). At some point here, tournaments are coming up. If I'm not competitive in my leagues and I choose to spend the rest of the season training my Unsung Irons for an upcoming Iron tourney, should I be penalized for using the only avenue to do so?

HiDesertAce is enjoying his time with that team, and I saw what he did with his theme team in Perfect and the PP windfall you would expect really wasn't there. Yeah, he lost a lot, but it wasn't like he was a loose slot machine. I think he only gave up 20 runs once. I've seen legitimate attempts at teams do worse than that often.

We've each got hundreds of thousands of PP in cards that we don't even get to use. Unless we are literally doing some garbage like the all-catchers teams and such, we should be able to get creative with the themes we try and play. Not only is it fun, but it gives us great insight into the game mechanics when you can see how cards perform against higher level competition. Hopefully no one reports me for using a bronze catcher in Perfect Leagues that I would have never been able to use if the game forced me into Diamond+ players or whatever.

DonkeyKongSr · 05-07-2019, 01:11 AM

By the way, consider this: Day 1 of Iron Tournies. Ace has already figured out how to make the best possible Iron teams. He has also cross-trained the cards to play multiple positions. He dominates said tournies with his combined expertise in the subject and best Iron card quality in the entire PT universe. He makes hundreds of thousands of PP off his Iron tourney rewards.

He may be outsmarting us all, but instead we've got calls to ban him from the game because he loses too much.

05-06-2019, 08:05 PM	#43
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,090	Lets look at a scenario that puts this argument into perspective. This isn't hypothetical - it's my current league. There is a Whale in one of our divisions that has 21(21!) Perfect Players on the active roster, and the remaining 4 players are 99,99,99, and 96. As if that wasn't depressing enough, there are 8 more Perfect Players - and 6 more Diamond Players on the Reserve List. Now, I have no idea how this team accumulated that many top-rung players, but I could make a pretty good guess it involved a lot more cash rather than luck. I'm guessing there's probably close to $1000 in this team. Here's my point. I have no idea how many (if any) players he has inactive - but whether he does or not he certainly could have them if he wants them. So, what if he decided to "tank". FIll his active player list with golds or silvers to drop a few levels and start over with a theme team - selling off some number of top-rung cards to finance it if he didn't want to spend more than he already has? Do you honestly think OOTP is going to stop him He just invested a thousand dollars into the game, and likely will spend more as time goes on or in future versions. In fact - who's to say he doesn't have the right to do that? He DID spend $1000 and has some expectations. And I have to say - as much as I hate admitting it, I would likely feel the same way. Therefore, any "rules" OOTP puts in place must take into consideration that they are not restricting people spending money to a point they will stop spending money. Punishments for tanking are likely to be "minor" - more likely to be a suggestion than a billy-club. That's what tends to drive me to my comment above... if the team has shown some kind of liquidation of his assets to make significant changes in his team, then it's difficult to claim he hasn't paid a price for his actions. And ultimately, he's only trading a player for points anyway - so anytime he wants he can buy the players back. __________________ Last edited by HRBaker; 05-06-2019 at 08:07 PM.

05-06-2019, 08:13 PM	#44
waittilnextyear All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 1,272	I don't see the problem. As long as he's being a punching bag for all opponents equally, so what? If he plays his A team against you then subs them all out to face another team, then I could see the argument. The devs should probably be clearer about their stance on these types of things. __________________

05-06-2019, 08:48 PM	#50
HiDesertAce Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 315	here is the top of my roster. If I set up the AI to run the team its at best a 500 team against weakish perfect leagues. if i run the team i may consistently be .500 In my earlier post I said that this was my collections team. And that I had linked up with dishnet's MLB Theme league members it was going to become a Dodgers theme team. Unfortunately, the majority of the members of that league are not together yet and are spread out over several levels. until that league starts i am running a theme team. I may decide to change the theme team each week. Next week I could be the SILVER SURFERS. Will play all silver level historical Two weeks ago I was the GOLDEN BOYS. all gold historical. theme team. won the Diamond Level Championship. This also my tournament account for when they start. So i would like to learn more about some of these cards. And I hope there will be an all iron tourney. So I decided to be the IRON HEROES this season. last season i started using all unsung hero IRON as well. HRBaker my family has an account in that league as well. Weldon Springs right? Thats the most expensive roster I have ever seen. Attached Images __________________

05-07-2019, 12:38 AM	#59
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	I myself am a mega-collector and Unsung Iron enthusiast (see below). At some point here, tournaments are coming up. If I'm not competitive in my leagues and I choose to spend the rest of the season training my Unsung Irons for an upcoming Iron tourney, should I be penalized for using the only avenue to do so? HiDesertAce is enjoying his time with that team, and I saw what he did with his theme team in Perfect and the PP windfall you would expect really wasn't there. Yeah, he lost a lot, but it wasn't like he was a loose slot machine. I think he only gave up 20 runs once. I've seen legitimate attempts at teams do worse than that often. We've each got hundreds of thousands of PP in cards that we don't even get to use. Unless we are literally doing some garbage like the all-catchers teams and such, we should be able to get creative with the themes we try and play. Not only is it fun, but it gives us great insight into the game mechanics when you can see how cards perform against higher level competition. Hopefully no one reports me for using a bronze catcher in Perfect Leagues that I would have never been able to use if the game forced me into Diamond+ players or whatever. Attached Images

05-06-2019, 08:29 PM	#46
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	each tier level should have a cap for number of gold/diamond/perfect players boom problem solved

05-07-2019, 01:11 AM	#60
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	By the way, consider this: Day 1 of Iron Tournies. Ace has already figured out how to make the best possible Iron teams. He has also cross-trained the cards to play multiple positions. He dominates said tournies with his combined expertise in the subject and best Iron card quality in the entire PT universe. He makes hundreds of thousands of PP off his Iron tourney rewards. He may be outsmarting us all, but instead we've got calls to ban him from the game because he loses too much.