Morale and form?

Galeno · 04-11-2006, 02:13 PM

Hello there!

I am new to the OOTP series (only played a couple of games of the OOTP5 free version, but I had some serious problems with CTDs...), but a old fan of the Championship and Football Manager series. I was wondering whether the game will have things like individual player's morale and some kind of "grade" for an individual's performance per game.

I know that in baseball you can "read" how well a individual played in a game in almost all the aspects looking at his stats. But not if someone made three great catches at the wall. Will there be any kind of "form" in the game, like the FM series (and the football world as a whole, as every newspaper in any football country will give grades to players' performances)?

PS: I am wholly newbie, including in the world of baseball. I am from Brazil, where we don't have almost any sport besides football (soccer). So, please, sorry me if my questions are too stupid, ok?

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 02:20 PM

I am not able to answer your question directly, but what questions do you have about the game of baseball itself?

Galeno · 04-11-2006, 02:32 PM

Well, two questions come to my mind right now. Why (and when) the American League chose to use DHs and what is a infielder's choice (is that the correct name?)?

And thank you, jm!

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 02:40 PM

Actually it is Fielder's Choice. Generally the normal play in the infield is a throw to first. But if you have a runner on first, and you just get the quick force out at second, then you have a fielder's choice. Basically it says there could have been a play in more the once place, and the fielder chose to go with something less common. Usually a throw to first is what is done because it is the most often practiced fielding technique. Also, runners may be going and trying to get the lead runner may be more difficult then the throw to first.

The first question is a little more involved. MLB fielt that because the pitcher is seen as the automatic out, that it was useless to have them bat. So in the 70's the owners of each league voted to have a DH for the pitcher. In this way, the pitcher is no longer an automatic out, and 9 GOOD hitters would be in the linup. The NL voted against it, leaving pithcers in the linup. You will now see in NL baseball more moves, double switches, etc, but in the AL, you will see less of this stuff as a direct result of the DH. There are critics each way. Some say it takes away the strategy and don't like it. Others see pitchers stand up there, take three strikes and go sit down, saying that it's stupid to have pitchers bat. Personally I don't like the DH, but I like the American Leauge teams better. I am a Yankee fan.

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 02:41 PM

Does this help? Honestly, if there is anything else, fire it my way.

battists · 04-11-2006, 02:59 PM

We're here to help. Even if he was too detailed, we can simplify it further!

Galeno · 04-11-2006, 03:28 PM

Guys, you are amazing! Thank you very much. With a game like that (the screenshots displayed today are terrific!) and fans like you, it's very very easy to choose a baseball game to buy.

And certainly I will ask you more questions in the near future. Like: what a goat have to do with 98 years without a title

... (I'm a Cubs fan

)

treedom · 04-11-2006, 03:31 PM

Welcome Galeno! We don't see many from South America round these parts.

Raidergoo · 04-11-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galeno

Will there be any kind of "form" in the game, like the FM series (and the football world as a whole, as every newspaper in any football country will give grades to players' performances)?

Single game evaluations ( "form" ) for each player is not done. There is no way to tell other than some brief play by play text how a player makes a play, and that's just about it.

From time to time, news articles are generated for exceptional events, like 3 HR's in a game or a no hitter. There are weekly awards for hitters and pitchers, as well as monthly ones that appear as news articles.

Really, you hit the nail on the head. Players are evaluated by numbers in box scores.

battists · 04-11-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Single game evaluations ( "form" ) for each player is not done. There is no way to tell other than some brief play by play text how a player makes a play, and that's just about it.

Well, hmm, in OOTP 6.5, at least one player per game was voted "PoG," or Player of the Game. I'm not sure if that will be in the new version, but it was kind of neat. I'm also not sure if it was available in version 5, the free version.

Raidergoo · 04-11-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galeno

Like: what a goat have to do with 98 years without a title

... (I'm a Cubs fan

)

May God have mercy on your soul, as the rest of the NL Central Division won't.

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 04:13 PM

Accorind to Urban Legend, a cubs fan tried to take his pet goat to a game, and he was not allowed in. He then said may the cubs never again be in the world series, and they have not been there since.

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 04:14 PM

I know, its silly.

DaveHorn · 04-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Well, hmm, in OOTP 6.5, at least one player per game was voted "PoG," or Player of the Game. I'm not sure if that will be in the new version, but it was kind of neat. I'm also not sure if it was available in version 5, the free version.

PoGs are also given in v5. I sure hope they exist in the new version! Also, the game (v5 and v6, no idea about v7 but hope so!) shows you which players are hot and cold. Not a measure of an individual game, but a measure of basic performance over the course of 7 to 14 days.

However, these notables are almost solely based upon individual stat performance. If the guys goes 0 for 4, but saves a 8 runs with two fence jumping death defying outfield grabs, he won't get any reward. I say "almost" because the PoG does take other great things into account like a player getting the game winning hit or homerun or such. This player could of been 1 for 4 with 3 k's and only 1 RBI, but if that RBI was an extra inning or game winning hit or homerun, you can be rewarded the PoG, even though his stat line isn't as great as other hitters in the game.

battists · 04-11-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHorn

Also, the game (v5 and v6, no idea about v7 but hope so!) shows you which players are hot and cold. Not a measure of an individual game, but a measure of basic performance over the course of 7 to 14 days.

This is in. Look at today's screenshots, and you'll see little flame and icecube graphics next to some players.

Long_Long_Name · 04-11-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

This is in. Look at today's screenshots, and you'll see little flame and icecube graphics next to some players.

There goes my contribution to this thread.

Galeno · 04-11-2006, 06:44 PM

On morale and form: In the FM series, besides the ratings and stats (and soccer has just a few of them, of course), morale and form have some importance in the player performance. A player with low morale (for not getting a salary raise, for being at a bad team in a loosing streak etc.) don't play so well. So, not only his ratings count, but his "high spirits" too. Of course, a good player (with good ratings) ordinarily play better then a not so good one. That's why I was trying to discover if morale would be in OOTP2006.

And form is a way to notice a player overall performance. But, of course, this is much more needed in a game that you cannot "read" with numbers, as baseball.

On the goat: Yeah, I read somewhere about this story! It's a great one! I am not from New Orleans, but here in Brazil we have a kind of voodoo too, called "macumba". I will try to fix the goat's curse!

Thanks again, guys.

DaveHorn · 04-11-2006, 07:02 PM

Your morale and form sort of sounds like what we call intangibles.

v5 and v6 had intangibles for players they had ratings in their

Loyalty - primarily impacted their $ demands
Desire for winner - impacted which teams they'd play for
Cluth - impacted how they did in "clutch" situations

Now, what these intangibles mean in the game is a long long source of debate, particularly clutch. I have no idea if these things exist in v7.

treedom · 04-11-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveHorn

Your morale and form sort of sounds like what we call intangibles.

Morale yeah, but not form. Form isn't an attribute, it's just a grade out of 10 each player gets after every match that says how well he played. I don't think a baseball sim needs that because a player's line is an adequate quick representation of how a player did in a game.

jm47048 · 04-11-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galeno

On morale and form: In the FM series, besides the ratings and stats (and soccer has just a few of them, of course), morale and form have some importance in the player performance. A player with low morale (for not getting a salary raise, for being at a bad team in a loosing streak etc.) don't play so well. So, not only his ratings count, but his "high spirits" too. Of course, a good player (with good ratings) ordinarily play better then a not so good one. That's why I was trying to discover if morale would be in OOTP2006.

And form is a way to notice a player overall performance. But, of course, this is much more needed in a game that you cannot "read" with numbers, as baseball.

On the goat: Yeah, I read somewhere about this story! It's a great one! I am not from New Orleans, but here in Brazil we have a kind of voodoo too, called "macumba". I will try to fix the goat's curse!

Thanks again, guys.

There are defensive stats. You might look into how those work. They reveal a lot about a player's performance.

04-11-2006, 02:13 PM	#1
Galeno Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 24	Morale and form? Hello there! I am new to the OOTP series (only played a couple of games of the OOTP5 free version, but I had some serious problems with CTDs...), but a old fan of the Championship and Football Manager series. I was wondering whether the game will have things like individual player's morale and some kind of "grade" for an individual's performance per game. I know that in baseball you can "read" how well a individual played in a game in almost all the aspects looking at his stats. But not if someone made three great catches at the wall. Will there be any kind of "form" in the game, like the FM series (and the football world as a whole, as every newspaper in any football country will give grades to players' performances)? PS: I am wholly newbie, including in the world of baseball. I am from Brazil, where we don't have almost any sport besides football (soccer). So, please, sorry me if my questions are too stupid, ok? __________________ "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

04-11-2006, 02:20 PM	#2
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,244	I am not able to answer your question directly, but what questions do you have about the game of baseball itself? __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009

04-11-2006, 02:32 PM	#3
Galeno Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 24	Well, two questions come to my mind right now. Why (and when) the American League chose to use DHs and what is a infielder's choice (is that the correct name?)? And thank you, jm! __________________ "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

04-11-2006, 02:40 PM	#4
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,244	Actually it is Fielder's Choice. Generally the normal play in the infield is a throw to first. But if you have a runner on first, and you just get the quick force out at second, then you have a fielder's choice. Basically it says there could have been a play in more the once place, and the fielder chose to go with something less common. Usually a throw to first is what is done because it is the most often practiced fielding technique. Also, runners may be going and trying to get the lead runner may be more difficult then the throw to first. The first question is a little more involved. MLB fielt that because the pitcher is seen as the automatic out, that it was useless to have them bat. So in the 70's the owners of each league voted to have a DH for the pitcher. In this way, the pitcher is no longer an automatic out, and 9 GOOD hitters would be in the linup. The NL voted against it, leaving pithcers in the linup. You will now see in NL baseball more moves, double switches, etc, but in the AL, you will see less of this stuff as a direct result of the DH. There are critics each way. Some say it takes away the strategy and don't like it. Others see pitchers stand up there, take three strikes and go sit down, saying that it's stupid to have pitchers bat. Personally I don't like the DH, but I like the American Leauge teams better. I am a Yankee fan. __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009 Last edited by jm47048; 04-11-2006 at 02:41 PM.

04-11-2006, 02:41 PM	#5
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,244	Does this help? Honestly, if there is anything else, fire it my way. __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009

04-11-2006, 02:59 PM	#6
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	We're here to help. Even if he was too detailed, we can simplify it further!

04-11-2006, 03:28 PM	#7
Galeno Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 24	Guys, you are amazing! Thank you very much. With a game like that (the screenshots displayed today are terrific!) and fans like you, it's very very easy to choose a baseball game to buy. And certainly I will ask you more questions in the near future. Like: what a goat have to do with 98 years without a title ... (I'm a Cubs fan ) __________________ "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

04-11-2006, 03:31 PM	#8
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	Welcome Galeno! We don't see many from South America round these parts. __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

04-11-2006, 04:13 PM	#12
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,244	Accorind to Urban Legend, a cubs fan tried to take his pet goat to a game, and he was not allowed in. He then said may the cubs never again be in the world series, and they have not been there since. __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009

04-11-2006, 04:14 PM	#13
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,244	I know, its silly. __________________ The New York Yankees World Series Champions 1923, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1977, 1978, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2009 American League Champions 1921, 1922, 1923, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1932, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1981, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2009

04-11-2006, 06:44 PM	#17
Galeno Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Posts: 24	On morale and form: In the FM series, besides the ratings and stats (and soccer has just a few of them, of course), morale and form have some importance in the player performance. A player with low morale (for not getting a salary raise, for being at a bad team in a loosing streak etc.) don't play so well. So, not only his ratings count, but his "high spirits" too. Of course, a good player (with good ratings) ordinarily play better then a not so good one. That's why I was trying to discover if morale would be in OOTP2006. And form is a way to notice a player overall performance. But, of course, this is much more needed in a game that you cannot "read" with numbers, as baseball. On the goat: Yeah, I read somewhere about this story! It's a great one! I am not from New Orleans, but here in Brazil we have a kind of voodoo too, called "macumba". I will try to fix the goat's curse! Thanks again, guys. __________________ "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together"

04-11-2006, 07:02 PM	#18
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	Your morale and form sort of sounds like what we call intangibles. v5 and v6 had intangibles for players they had ratings in their Loyalty - primarily impacted their $ demands Desire for winner - impacted which teams they'd play for Cluth - impacted how they did in "clutch" situations Now, what these intangibles mean in the game is a long long source of debate, particularly clutch. I have no idea if these things exist in v7. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish