Can someone help me figure this out?

[68pirate]

I guess I fall into the straitjacket category...I do enjoy playing with one year recalc. I grew up playing APBA, and looked forward to those cards every year to see those "monster cards" for players who had aberrations to their careers. Many of my all time favorite ballplayers are reserves, and in my universe I can choose to make them starters and see what happens. I've never been a superstar kind of guy. Tom Prince is one of my favorites, 17 seasons in the majors as a backup catcher, 5 of them behind Mike Piazza in LA. In my universe, I can make him a starter so he can attempt to replicate his 1996 .297/.365/.438 stats over the course of 130-140 games and get more than 64 at bats. I realize I'm probably in the minority of playing the game this way, but to each their own.

However, even with one year recalc OOTP doesn't do the best job at recreating individual players. It does a pretty good job with hitters, an OK job with pitchers, and a poor job with fielding. Having said that, other sims out there don't even to begin to offer the customization and general manager capabilities of OOTP and that is why I prefer it to others.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by 68pirate

I guess I fall into the straitjacket category...I do enjoy playing with one year recalc. I grew up playing APBA, and looked forward to those cards every year to see those "monster cards" for players who had aberrations to their careers. Many of my all time favorite ballplayers are reserves, and in my universe I can choose to make them starters and see what happens. I've never been a superstar kind of guy. Tom Prince is one of my favorites, 17 seasons in the majors as a backup catcher, 5 of them behind Mike Piazza in LA. In my universe, I can make him a starter so he can attempt to replicate his 1996 .297/.365/.438 stats over the course of 130-140 games and get more than 64 at bats. I realize I'm probably in the minority of playing the game this way, but to each their own.

However, even with one year recalc OOTP doesn't do the best job at recreating individual players. It does a pretty good job with hitters, an OK job with pitchers, and a poor job with fielding. Having said that, other sims out there don't even to begin to offer the customization and general manager capabilities of OOTP and that is why I prefer it to others.

Thanks for sharing.

So with 1 year recalc, does Tom Prince approach his career best at the appointed hour? Do you pretty much know that he'll peak in 96?

It still doesn't explain the guys who pout until you bring them up a full season or two before any extended historical debut. Then they go on to tear up the league - go figure.

I'm beginning to think I might have a theory on it. Perhaps since they only had a brief potty stop in the bigs that year, any ABs or IPs you give them past that point are informed by their real life stats from the following year...

In other words, Lou Brock debuted in 1961, with 12 plate appearances and hit an abysmal .091. He came back in 62 to play full time with an OPS in the .725 range. If I bring him up in 61, will his first 12 PA's simulate historcal '61 and the 13th and beyond simulate historical '62? This is about the only way I can explain this pervasive phenomena of stars hitting their stride in OOTP well before actually making a meaningful contribution historically.

[68pirate]

I think the reason for the Lou Brock example you give might lie in the "Historical player import options". These setting are always at a default number of at bats/innings pitched for "adjust hitters/pitchers" and "weaken hitters/pitchers" for low ab or ip guys. These settings are intended to prevent the guy who was 4 for 10 from hitting .400 as a regular in the sim, because if he was rated as a .400 hitter the ai would start him.
The flip side of that is that the same setting improves the guy who was only 1 for 10 so that he is closer to the league average, whatever it might be for that season. Thus the ai might start him as well, if the other options for that position have ratings worse than the league average.
I hope this makes sense...if the league average was .265, the guy who hit .100 in 10 ab might be adjusted to hit .255-.260. If the actual starter that season at that position hit .210 in 400 ab's he will be rated to hit .210, and thus will ride the pine while the other guy starts. Does this possibly explain your Lou Brock example?
In the case of Tom Prince, he imports in 1996 with the following ratings, the first line being with the default import setting and the second line after changing the "adjust/weaken" hitter at bat totals to <1 at bat.
60 contact, 66 gap, 39 power,56 overall (100 scale)
61 contact, 106 gap, 29 power, 63 overall
In both cases he imports with a catcher rating of 15 (out of 100), which supports my contention of ootp failing miserably at rating fielders, especially late inning defensive replacement type guys, as Prince would regularly replace Piazza behind the plate for defensive purposes.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by 68pirate

I think the reason for the Lou Brock example you give might lie in the "Historical player import options". These setting are always at a default number of at bats/innings pitched for "adjust hitters/pitchers" and "weaken hitters/pitchers" for low ab or ip guys. These settings are intended to prevent the guy who was 4 for 10 from hitting .400 as a regular in the sim, because if he was rated as a .400 hitter the ai would start him.
The flip side of that is that the same setting improves the guy who was only 1 for 10 so that he is closer to the league average, whatever it might be for that season. Thus the ai might start him as well, if the other options for that position have ratings worse than the league average.
I hope this makes sense...if the league average was .265, the guy who hit .100 in 10 ab might be adjusted to hit .255-.260. If the actual starter that season at that position hit .210 in 400 ab's he will be rated to hit .210, and thus will ride the pine while the other guy starts. Does this possibly explain your Lou Brock example?
In the case of Tom Prince, he imports in 1996 with the following ratings, the first line being with the default import setting and the second line after changing the "adjust/weaken" hitter at bat totals to <1 at bat.
60 contact, 66 gap, 39 power,56 overall (100 scale)
61 contact, 106 gap, 29 power, 63 overall
In both cases he imports with a catcher rating of 15 (out of 100), which supports my contention of ootp failing miserably at rating fielders, especially late inning defensive replacement type guys, as Prince would regularly replace Piazza behind the plate for defensive purposes.

Your explanation for the Lou Brock phenomena makes sense. The light just dimly flickered.

Regarding defense, from my limited experience, it seems to be based more on the number of games they played than the quality of defense they exhibited.