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Old 07-28-2006, 03:15 PM   #1
Rod
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Question Don't know much about baseball... tactics! Can anyone help?

I have done this before on a couple of tactics I didn't quite understan waht they were and when you would want to use it. I believe it was BruceM who was so nice to tell me all about it. (Y)

With OOTP2006 being even more filled with tactical options, I'm getting lost again in the tactics junkie heaven.

What does the following mean (maybe waht does it look like?) and when would I want to use it?:

Hit & Run
Run & Hit
Squeeze Bunt

Use Infield Shift

There are probably some more in the match view but these are the ones I have in front of me for Team Strategy.

If you might wonder: I'm more of a football fan (US: soccer) than a baseball fan but I like baseball very much though I don't much about the strategies used. I did buy OOTP2006 though.
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Old 07-28-2006, 04:55 PM   #2
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Always love talkin' strategy. As a qualifier, I tend to be fairly statistical in my approach to the game, which means that I'm not big into taking low-percentage risks unless it's late in the game and I desperately need something to happen to get a run to tie. All of the offensive plays listed here are fairly high risk plays that are designed to help get you that one run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod
Hit & Run
In a hit and run, you start the runner--usually on first--when the pitch is thrown, and expect the hitter to make contact with the pitch. The idea is that if the hitter gets a single, the runner will already be almost to second base by the time the ball gets through the infield. This gives him a better chance of taking an extra base. In real life, it also forces either the second baseman or the shortstop to break towards the second-base bag, which can open up a hole in the infield. Finally, it also makes it more difficult for the opposing team to turn a double play on a ground ball. Smallball guys love this play.

Two principle dangers to using it. One, in the case of a line drive to the infield, it's very easy for the runner to be doubled up, as they'll have no chance to make it back to first base. Two, if the batter doesn't make contact with the pitch, the runner has a high likelihood of getting thrown out. The reason is that the runner needs to pay attention to where the ball is hit in order to react correctly in the case of a fly ball or line drive out, so he can't run as fast as he would if trying to steal the bag. Therefore, it's best to use this play with good contact hitters (high contact, low strikeouts) when facing pitchers with good control (and ideally low strikeouts), in counts in which it's likely that you'll see a strike (1-0, 2-0, 2-1 for example...NOT 0-2 counts).

Personally, I don't use this play. Too much of a risk of getting caught stealing, and I don't like forcing a hitter to swing at a pitch that could be a terrible pitch to hit. Only time I'll even consider it is if it's late in the game, I need one run to tie, and I have a good contact hitter facing a good control pitcher.

Quote:
Run & Hit
This is much the same as a hit & run, except that the hitter is only expected to swing if he sees a pitch that he likes. The runner still has to be aware of what's going on, so the steal is maybe a little less likely than in a straight-steal situation, but at least the hitter isn't forced to swing before the pitch is even thrown. I like this one a little bit better than the hit & run, but only marginally. It should only be used when you have a good runner on the bases, though, because otherwise they're definitely going to get thrown out.

One place where I will use this play is to send a fast runner on a 3-2 count. This way, if the hitter takes the pitch, it's most likely going to be a ball and the runner will automatically advance to second anyway. Does still occasionally result in a strike 'em out, throw 'em out double play though (but so does the hit and run).

Quote:
Squeeze Bunt
This is only is possible if you have a guy on third base and less than two outs. The hitter tries to bunt the ball, while runner breaks from third as the pitch is thrown and tries to get to the plate before the defense can get the bunt back to the catcher. It's risky because you have to send the runner as the pitch is thrown, which means that (again) you have to be confident that a) the hitter will get a pitch somewhere in the vicinity of the strike zone (control pitcher, with a count likely to result in a strike), and b) that the hitter can make contact with the ball and *not* pop up the bunt (good sac bunting skills). Finally, because you're effectively just giving the runner a little more time to steal home here, it's important that the runner be extremely fast.

This is again a play that I would only use in late innings when I desperately need a single run to tie, and have the right runner on third and bunter at the plate. Otherwise, I'd much rather let my hitter take a swing and hope for either a hit or a sac-fly.

In real life, it may have it's best value as a "shock" play. If the defense isn't expecting it, you can score an easy run. But I'm not sure that the "shock" factor translates over into OOTP all that well.

Quote:
Use Infield Shift
This is becoming pretty popular these days among big-time pull hitters like David Ortiz, Ken Griffey Jr., and Adam Dunn. What essentially happens is that the infield defense "shifts" such that three infielders will be on the side of the infield that the batter usually hits to. So for those guys, all left-handed hitters, the shortstop plays behind second base, the second baseman plays between his normal position and first base, and the first baseman plays a little closer to the line than normal. The result is that it's much harder to get a ball through the right side of the infield than normal.

The downside is that the other side of the infield only has one fielder, which means it's pretty easy to get a hit that way. Therefore, you should only use this play when a hitter has a strong tendency to pull the ball (check for "pull hitter" in the hitter description). I actually like this play under certain conditions--when used with the right hitter, it can really help your cause. Adam Dunn, for example, plays for my Reds, and almost never hits a ground ball to the opposite field. This makes the shift a particularly effective strategy against him--and he's expressed frustration this season because so many teams do just that. It's also best to use when your pitcher is throwing on the inside part of the plate, as those pitches are more likely to be pulled (not that you have much control over that in OOTP). But you have to be careful, because if the hitter *can* hit a ground ball to the opposite field, he's much more likely to get a hit.

Hope that helps!
-jinaz
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Old 07-28-2006, 07:20 PM   #3
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Some very good info in the post above me

A re-worded version of what JinAZ said, just for kicks:

Hit and Run:
-The runner is sent when the pitch is delivered(just like a stolen base)
-The batter is told to try and make contact with the pitch no matter what

Pros:
-Harder for infield to turn double play
-Opens up hole in infield with shortstop/2B covering second for the steal
-Increasing chances of a runner going from 1st to 3rd on a base hit

Cons:
-If batter misses the ball, high chance of runner being thrown out
-A line drive or fly ball can result in a double play
-Batter may have to swing at a bad pitch

When to use:
-Good contact hitter, fast runner, count where the pitcher will most likely throw a strike (i.e. ahead in the count, 1-0, 2-1, etc.)


Run and hit:
-Same thing as a hit & run, except batter doesn't have to swing

Pros:
-Same as hit&run, plus less risk of forcing the batter to swing at a bad pitch

Cons:
-Same as hit & run, except will result in more attempts to throw the runner out at second since sometimes the batter will take the pitch

When to use:
-Same as hit & run
-Full count, because a ball means the runner is automatically safe so the risk of being thrown out is lower

Squeeze bunt
-Runner on 3rd steals home when the pitch is delivered
-Batter tries to bunt the ball no matter where the pitch is, and hope that the runner can reach home before the catcher gets the ball back.
-Often the fielders will have no chance at the runner going home and will take the easy out at first.

Pros:
-High success rate when the batter is a good bunter and the runner is a good runner.
-Surprises the defense (not really a factor in OOTP as much as real life)

Cons:
-Risk an easy out if the batter can't make contact or if he bunts it hard back to the pitcher, or right on top of the plate

When to use:
-Fast runner, good bunter.
-Situation where the pitch will most likely be in or around the strike zone (ahead in the count: 1-0, 2-1, etc).

Infield Shift
-Infield shifts to the left for a right-handed batter or the right for a left-handed batter
-For a righty, the shortstop will be near second base, the second baseman will be closer to first, and the first baseman will be playing near the foul line. The third baseman will move closer to the shortstop position since he is the only fielder on that side of the infield.

Pros:
-Very difficult for a hitter to pull a ball through the infield

Cons:
-Lose defense on the other side of the infield, a grounder to opposite field will probably get through

When to use:
-When an extreme pull hitter is at the plate who rarely hits to opposite field


In case you're not familiar with these terms, "pulling" the ball is hitting it on the left side of the infield for a righthander, and the opposite for a left hander.
Opposite field is the right side of the infield for a righthanded batter, and the opposite for a left handed batter.
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Old 07-28-2006, 09:38 PM   #4
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Wow, thanks guys!

As promised, I have some more tactics I don't understand. There are options like:

Take Pitch
Safety Squeeze
Send Forced

I don't know what they exactly mean, so if anyone can give an explanation on these I would be again very thankful.
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Old 07-29-2006, 08:11 AM   #5
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Take Pitch - Just tells the batter to take the pitch - not to swing no matter what. Usually occurs on 3-0 counts. Even if the pitcher throws a strike, the batter still has two more chances to get a hit. The reasoning behind this, or one example anyway, if the pitcher just threw you three straight balls, why not see if he's struggling and will throw a 4th consecutive ball? A walk is as good as a single.


Safety Squeeze - I think you mean suicide squeeze. With a runner on 3rd and less than two outs, the manager might put on the suicide squeeze, try to score the run on a bunt. What happens is, as soon as the pitcher goes into his wind up the runner on 3rd breaks for home. It's up to the hitter to execute a bunt.

Send Forced - I believe this is refering to telling the runner on base, usually 1st but not always, to run on the next pitch regardless. Chnaces are the manager has the hit & run or run & hit on or he wants the runner to steal 2nd.
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Old 07-29-2006, 10:59 AM   #6
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Is a Safety/Suicide Squeeze the same thing as a Squeeze Bunt or a Sacrifice Bunt (though the latter is not mentioned in the game, I know you can perform one with the bunt)?

If there's Hit & Run and Run & Hit and I can steal second with Steal 2nd, what for would I need Send Forced?

Still thanks very much for your reply.

Also, I'm starting to wonder (perhaps again): what is Pitch Around? I think it is the pitcher stringing up some different types of throws varying from on the plate and off the plate. Is that correct? Basically my question here is again, what does Pitch Around look like and when should I use it?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod
Is a Safety/Suicide Squeeze the same thing as a Squeeze Bunt or a Sacrifice Bunt (though the latter is not mentioned in the game, I know you can perform one with the bunt)?
The Saftey squeeze is a little different than a suicide squeeze. The name of each gives you an indication of how much the runner hangs himself out to dry in each situation.

On a saftey squeeze the runner only breaks halfway home from third and waits to see how good the bunt is before deciding whether to try to score or to go back to third.


Quote:
Also, I'm starting to wonder (perhaps again): what is Pitch Around? I think it is the pitcher stringing up some different types of throws varying from on the plate and off the plate. Is that correct? Basically my question here is again, what does Pitch Around look like and when should I use it?
You pitch around dangerous hitters when you don't have confidence in your pitcher or when the pitcher doesn't have confidence in getting a hitter out. It's used when a pitcher doesn't want to intentionaly walk the player instead trying to get the hitter to chase balls out of the strikezone. If the hitter doesn't chase he ends up walking as none of the pitches thrown are going to be over the plate.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:17 PM   #8
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A safety squeeze is NOT the same as a suicide squeeze. A safety squeeze means that the player on 3rd base takes several steps towards home as the pitch is being delivered, and if the bunt is laid down safely, he proceeds to break towards home.

The advantage this has over a suicide squeeze is that if the batter somehow misses the ball, on a suicide squeeze the runner has about a 95% chance of being tagged out. On a safety squeeze that isn't the case because the runner doesn't break for home until he sees the bunt laid down safely.

Obviously the donwside of this is that since the runner breaks later, he has a lower chance of scoring before the ball can get back to the catcher.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:27 PM   #9
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Generally when someone refers to simply a "squeeze" or a "squeeze bunt," they are referring to a suicide squeeze. The "suicide" is sort of implied, unless "safety" is explicitly stated.

As for a sacrifice bunt, this is completely different from the two types of squeeze bunts. A sac bunt is performed with runners on 1st or 2nd (or both) with less than 2 outs. The purpose of a sacrifice bunt is that, with a good enough bunt, the only chance the fielders will have to get an out will be at 1st base. Therefore, you are basically sacrificing an out to move the other runner(s) over.

For example, in a National League game, if the 8th batter in the lineup gets a base hit to lead off the innning, and the pitcher is up, the chances of the pitcher getting a hit or even moving the runner to 2nd are pretty slim if you tell the pitcher to swing away normally. Because of this, the pitcher will often perform a sacrifice bunt, giving up the out (since an out probably would have been recorded if he swung away anyway) in order to move the runner to 2nd so that the better hitters in the lineup can drive him in.
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Old 08-01-2006, 03:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boozie1580
Run and hit:
-Same thing as a hit & run, except batter doesn't have to swing

Pros:
-Same as hit&run, plus less risk of forcing the batter to swing at a bad pitch

Cons:
-Same as hit & run, except will result in more attempts to throw the runner out at second since sometimes the batter will take the pitch

When to use:
-Same as hit & run
-Full count, because a ball means the runner is automatically safe so the risk of being thrown out is lower
I would say it's a BIT different than a hit and run.

On a Hit and Run, the runner isn't trying to STEAL the base, but get a headstart from first.

On a Run and Hit, the runner IS trying to steal the base.

Good answers though.
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Old 08-01-2006, 06:02 PM   #11
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I DO like taking low-percentage risks, so I'll give you my take on the hit and run.

If you have a team with speedy baserunner who also have high contact ratings, be aggressive and send baserunners, especially in your opponent's catcher has a below average arm. If there's a runner on first with fewer than two outs and your batter has a high contact rating, try a hit and run. If the batter swings and misses, the runner has a chance of stealing second (the downside of course being that he may get caught stealing). If he makes contact and gets a hit, the runner will end up taking an extra base. The hitter should have a better chance of getting a hit with a groundball because either the second baseman or the shortstop will be covering second base to take the throw from the catcher. Plus, if he hits a ground ball which is fielded, setting the runner in motion will keep the defense from turning a double play - the batter will be out, but the runner will take second. The downside is that if he hits a line drive at someone, your baserunner will probably get doubled up off first. Like I said, tailor your strategy to the players on your team and your opponents. With a speedy baserunner, weak catcher, and a good contact hitter who has a high groundball % at the plate, there are more possible good outcomes than bad outcomes, especially considering that catchers seem to make a lot of throwing errors in this game. If you try to steal second and the catcher throws the ball into centerfield, you've got a runner at third who can now score on a groundball or sacrifice fly. If your opponent has a bad defensive catcher, abuse him as much as possible. He's probably only playing because he has a good bat (the most famous recent example being Mike Piazza) and you'll want to punish the opposing manager for neglecting the importance of defense when he wrote out his lineup.

This isn't new info after the excellent replies already in this thread - I just saw the thread now and wanted to throw in my version with a bit more of a positive spin on why you should use it.
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Old 08-05-2006, 01:07 PM   #12
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I sometimes use hit and run when I have a slow runner on first and want to avoid a double play.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 08-06-2006, 12:20 AM   #13
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I sometimes use hit and run when I have a slow runner on first and want to avoid a double play.
Or.... If Joe Torre is batting
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Old 08-06-2006, 12:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod
I have done this before on a couple of tactics I didn't quite understan waht they were and when you would want to use it. I believe it was BruceM who was so nice to tell me all about it. (Y)

With OOTP2006 being even more filled with tactical options, I'm getting lost again in the tactics junkie heaven.
Just curious Rod. Where ya from?
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Old 08-07-2006, 08:12 PM   #15
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an additional idea on "pitch around" .. it seems to work well when you're ahead in the count 0-2 or 1-2 ... particularly if the batter has poor "Eye/Patience". seems to increase the chance of a strikeout, and cut down at least a bit on the batters hits and long hits... though of course oftentimes you end up given up a ball or two, and then you're back to a neutral count.. and no longer to "pitch to the corners".

Maybe its my imagination, but I feel I've had rather good results when I am ahead on the count, with a poor "eye/discipline" batter, and "pitch around".
(it makes sense from a real life perspective, why not nibble on the corners if you are ahread on the count to a batter with a poor eye or poor patience.)

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Old 08-11-2006, 04:17 PM   #16
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Some more Noob Questions

Wow. Great advice above, guys. Also need help. Live in UK. Love Baseball, Crap at managing it.

Can you help? Managing D-Backs (2005). Spring Training, have played 7 lost 6 (1 win a fluke)!

What basic tactics would i be best advised employing at the start of the first few innings and then later e.g 6th onwards if scores tied, or behind by a few etc (ALL help welcome). Would prefer quite aggressive tactics rather than conservative.

What is the best way to set Batters line up? (High on Base Percentage to lead off or Hitting Average)? What then further down the order?

Also is there a bug in the game? Had the bases loaded on a bout 5 occasions in this time, each time still with 2-3 outs remaining, yet never managed to convert even a single. (Bunts foul out then struck out Bunting). Am I missing a useful tactic here.

Cheers.

Martin

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Old 08-16-2006, 12:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbo1222
Wow. Great advice above, guys. Also need help. Live in UK. Love Baseball, Crap at managing it.

Can you help? Managing D-Backs (2005). Spring Training, have played 7 lost 6 (1 win a fluke)!

What basic tactics would i be best advised employing at the start of the first few innings and then later e.g 6th onwards if scores tied, or behind by a few etc (ALL help welcome). Would prefer quite aggressive tactics rather than conservative.

What is the best way to set Batters line up? (High on Base Percentage to lead off or Hitting Average)? What then further down the order?

Also is there a bug in the game? Had the bases loaded on a bout 5 occasions in this time, each time still with 2-3 outs remaining, yet never managed to convert even a single. (Bunts foul out then struck out Bunting). Am I missing a useful tactic here.

Cheers.

Martin
Don't bunt with the bases loaded. Just hit away. Even a pitcher may get a ground ball out to score 1 run. A sacrifice fly is about 50% likely.
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:32 PM   #18
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Thanks Rich

I have shuffled my Batting Line-Up around based on the excellent advice by KBlover (See 'In desperate Need) and the results have been much improved.

However still not sure about the designated Hitter. Am i simply looking for the best AVG not in the starting line-up or is it more extensive than that? Also where typically would I place him in the order?

Also I have downloaded the latest patch and found that all my scouts have disappeared.

How do we scout now? I'm probably being blind but....................

Any ideas on the above anyone?

Cheers

Martin
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbo1222
I have shuffled my Batting Line-Up around based on the excellent advice by KBlover (See 'In desperate Need) and the results have been much improved.

However still not sure about the designated Hitter. Am i simply looking for the best AVG not in the starting line-up or is it more extensive than that? Also where typically would I place him in the order?
Avg? No. Normally one puts their worst fielding batter, who would normally be in the lineup, at DH. In real life, that usually ends up being a player who would otherwise play 1B or LF because that's where bad fielders usually get placed. In OOTP, though, you might have a great hitting SS who is not at all a good fielder that you might want to have DH.

Where the DH bats in the lineup usually depends on his hitting abilities. However, because a DH is normally not a good fielder that usually means he's not a good runner either and so you rarely see a DH batting first, second or even third in the lineup. He is usually a very good hitter, though, so you'll often see him batting 4-6 in the lineup.

As an aside, studies have shown it doesn't matter very much where you bat guys in a lineup, just that you have the best ones in it. That said, many people, like myself, do like to have some rationality to it. You'll get varying opinions on this, but I think most OOTPers go for something like the following:

1) great OBP / great speed
2) good OBP / good speed / good contact
3) great OPS / good OBP / good Avg
4) great OPS / good SLG
5-9) the next 5 best OPS (some prefer to go by OBP) in descending order

Some people will just go with the simple descending order of OBP 1-9. Back in the day, however, managers tended to ignore OBP and OPS, putting a lot more emphasis on Avg. You can read more on this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batting...%28baseball%29

EDIT: Great thread BTW, everyone. I'm not very strong on in-game management, but I love reading the advice of others on the topic.

EDIT2: It should be pointed out that there is some good stuff on tactics in the game guide on page 162, sections 8.7.1.3 and 8.7.1.4.

Last edited by kq76; 08-16-2006 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 08-16-2006, 11:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbo1222
I have shuffled my Batting Line-Up around based on the excellent advice by KBlover (See 'In desperate Need) and the results have been much improved.

However still not sure about the designated Hitter. Am i simply looking for the best AVG not in the starting line-up or is it more extensive than that? Also where typically would I place him in the order?

Also I have downloaded the latest patch and found that all my scouts have disappeared.

How do we scout now? I'm probably being blind but....................

Any ideas on the above anyone?

Cheers

Martin

kq76's stuff is good. I particularly like a high contact guy hitting 5th. The reason is that your cleanup hitter may strikeout a lot, in between hitting home runs, so you keep a high contact guy to pick up men LOB. After that you put your remaining power at 7th

I also like a speed guy, high contact, hitting 8th if no DH or 9th if DH. The DH should bat where he fits in the order.

Stats show that lineups have little influence on total runs, so dont be afraid to experiment.
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