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03-14-2006, 06:35 PM | #541 | |
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03-14-2006, 06:43 PM | #542 | |
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And here's another question: Is it (or was it) possible for a player to get a prescription for, say, Winstrol from a Dr. Nick-type physician to skirt the '91 memo?
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Javier Gustavo Ruprecht Oss LXVIII Bizarro-Gastric ReFlux Emeritus Judo Purist and Supporter of Monkey Rodeo Leagues: OTBL | ABC | OCHO | Off The Wall (Coming Soon!) Blogs: The Legacy of Tony Womack | How We Got Enron! ...the musical (Now even less frequently updated!) Topical quote for any occasion: "Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth." ~Henrik Ibsen, "An Enemy of the People" Last edited by jgross68; 03-14-2006 at 06:45 PM. |
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03-14-2006, 06:46 PM | #543 |
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Dola,
Thanks for the props, Sub! *holds out fist for Respek Knuckles*
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Javier Gustavo Ruprecht Oss LXVIII Bizarro-Gastric ReFlux Emeritus Judo Purist and Supporter of Monkey Rodeo Leagues: OTBL | ABC | OCHO | Off The Wall (Coming Soon!) Blogs: The Legacy of Tony Womack | How We Got Enron! ...the musical (Now even less frequently updated!) Topical quote for any occasion: "Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and truth." ~Henrik Ibsen, "An Enemy of the People" |
03-14-2006, 06:48 PM | #544 | |
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03-14-2006, 06:51 PM | #545 | |
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So, Strawberry is repeatedly testing positive for cocaine use. I think that is pursuant to the 1991 memo, but I can't tell. It is my understanding that drug testing is typically a "mandatory subject of bargaining", so without a drug testing agreement as part of the CBA baseball couldn't test. I'm pretty sure that the CBA's prior to the current one didn't mention drug use, and a quick look at the 1997 CBA confirms that...
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03-14-2006, 06:51 PM | #546 | |
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Similar problem with mechanical limbs. But if a player considers either entering baseball with that or considers getting that done, baseball will have to come up with a policy. If they stay silent on it, and the player starts setting records, they can't suddenly reverse course, bar him from the game, and wipe out his records. I don't need baseball to come up with specifics. But saying "don't take illegal performance enhancing drugs or you'll face these penalties" isn't exactly rewriting Shakespeare. To modify one of your analogies (and I think we both agree that these -- yours and mine both -- are bad for arguments), let's say players start coming in with mechanical limbs, and they play for a while. Then the mechanics of it all get much better and the players with the new enhancements are much better, and baseball decides on a policy of no mechanical enhancement. You can't go back and wipe out the records of the players who had the old system. They did nothing wrong. They played within the set rules of the game. Just for more accuracy with the example, let's say having the procedure of attaching the mechanical limbs was illegal in the US, but legal in Russia, and this applies to the older, accepted version and the newer version. So players go to Russia and get the enhancements, and come back, and baseball lets them play. Let's even say they hide the fact that they have mechanical limbs from the public because of stigma or whatever. But everyone knows the enhancements are possible and people are getting them in Russia. Some players are rumored to have had mechanical enhancements, some players even write books about it later. You still can't punish the players who weren't breaking any written baseball law. Still not a perfect analogy, but no analogy ever is. If baseball wanted the ability to punish players for taking these drugs, they should have made it policy and announced that it wouldn't be tolerated. I'm not sure when people first started noticing and using steroids, so let's say for argument's sake it was the mid 80s (I think it was around there). That means baseball knew this could be a potential issue, but aside from a memo floated in 1991 that said "we don't want this happening" nothing was done about it. Now they have decided they don't want it, and they started testing and set down punishments. Barry Bonds has not violated this policy. In that case, you can't punish him for it. Just like if Alex Sanchez had been given a ten-game suspension with 5 games left in the season before they upped the penalties, they couldn't extend the five game-suspension he had left to the new, longer penalty. He wouldn't have violated the new policy, he violated the old policy. Well, if the book is true, Bonds violated a policy that didn't exist, and can only be punished through penalties that never existed. What penalty can they punish him with, anyway? Anything they would do to Bonds would be a completely arbitrary decision. Also, Jose Canseco openly admitted to steroid use. Nothing has happened to his place in baseball history. His records are still there, he is eligible for the Hall of Fame. How can they now go after Bonds for what Canseco admitted when they didn't do anything to Canseco? The thing I hate most about this whole ordeal is they are focusing on Bonds because he is chasing records. If he were a mediocre player, nobody would be arguing for this. So much for everyone wanting consistency.
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03-14-2006, 06:53 PM | #547 | |
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03-14-2006, 07:02 PM | #548 | |
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03-14-2006, 07:04 PM | #549 | |
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03-14-2006, 07:07 PM | #550 | |
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03-14-2006, 07:13 PM | #551 |
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Considering the 1991 memo, I don't it a fair reading to think silence on steriod testing was due to apathy or ignorance. Seems like it was not agreed to by the union despite being a subject of bargaining.
I don't know, that may move me a little more to Mylon's side, though I still have qualms.
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03-14-2006, 07:16 PM | #552 | |
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In that case, it's entirely feasible that the owners saw it as a problem, but the players association was ignorant or apathetic to it to the point of thinking that the extra tests were more of a nuisance than the idea that steroids were affecting the game. |
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03-14-2006, 09:56 PM | #553 | |
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On the whole CBA/steroids issue, I'm in agreement with Sublimity and mlyons, and this may help others understand why ...
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2634 One thing of interest to note: MLB could only penalize players who violated the drug policy if that player was "convicted, pleads guilty or pleads no contest to charges of using, selling or distributing such drugs." From the looks of it, unless Barry Bonds is convicted, pleads guilty or pleads no contest to actual federal charges of using, selling or distributing steroids prior to MLB banning them in the CBA, then MLB is powerless to do anything unless he has a positive test once their testing program was implemented. Anyway, I haven't seen this posted in this thread ... so this may help ... Quote:
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