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01-27-2017, 12:58 PM | #1 |
Bat Boy
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 10
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Absurdly large all-time greats quickstart: 5000 players, 114 teams
This project was inspired in part by Captain Walrus's all-time greats quickstart. CW observed that the oldest franchises are significantly advantaged in the default 30-team all-time quickstart that comes with the game because they have so much more history and so many more players to draw from. His solution was to split the pre-expansion franchises into two teams each. However even this leaves some of the expansion teams at a disadvantage. So I took it a step further by dividing each franchise into the eras set forth in this Bill James article:*
1876-1892 (Era 1 - Early) 1893-1919 (Era 2 - Deadball) 1920-1946 (Era 3 - Liveball) 1947-1968 (Era 4 - Integration) 1969-1992 (Era 5 - Expansion) 1993-2015 (Era 6 - Modern) *When it comes to the dividing lines, I actually cared mostly about run environment whereas James took a ton of different factors into account. But as it turns out, I think these are also the most natural dividing lines as far as run environment is concerned.Every player from 1876-2015 who had at least one season of 2 fWAR or greater is assigned to a team and an era. (Pitchers could qualify by either fWAR or RA9-WAR.) In deciding which season to pick for each player, I didn't have a particularly rigorous method. I basically eyeballed it. The major factors I considered were as follows:
The next question was how to handle the "rump teams." That is, sticking strictly to the era dividers above creates a few rosters that are too small to field a team. For the 1961-62 expansion teams, I just added the pre-1969 players - who strictly should be in Era 4 - into Era 5.* *Incidentally, HOU5, LAA5, and NYM5 are all strong teams, although I'm not sure how much of that is because of the "extra" players they get from their pre-1969 years.The real trickiness was how to handle Era 1. Not only is it the shortest era, but the American Association teams didn't start until 1882 at the earliest, plus there were many now-defunct teams constantly starting and folding across multiple leagues.* What I ended up doing was grouping Era 1 players by region rather than strictly by franchise. Some of the teams, like BLN1, CHC1, CIN1, and LOU1, are composed almost entirely of player seasons from the franchise in question. (Baltimore gets a couple DC players and Louisville gets a few Hoosiers, but they could have fielded complete teams without the outsiders.) On the other end of the spectrum, PIT1 has more players from Columbus than Pittsburgh, BSN1 includes a sizable Providence contingent, CLV1 covers the entire Great Lakes region (Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse etc). NYG1 is composed of all the New York players (Giants, Bridegrooms, Metropolitans etc), PHI1 includes Phillies and Athletics alike. You get the idea. Finally, I assigned player seasons from defunct teams after 1892 (mostly Colonels, Orioles, and Spiders) to Era 1, even though strictly speaking they belonged in Era 2. *I ignored player seasons that occurred in the National Association, the Union Association, and later the Federal League. I also largely ignored player seasons from WW2 years.The next step was to name the teams and figure out what parks to put them in. I decided to simply import actual historical teams - one per franchise per era - and then clear the real rosters and import all the players I'd chosen using the above methods.* The main thing I looked for in choosing these team seasons was a diversity of ballparks.** But only up to a point - I didn't go out of my way to choose teams from 19th century ballparks that we have little information about, and I resisted the temptation to put LAD4 in the Coliseum. *I set the import to neutralize players' stats because that seemed like the thing to do when mixing such wildly different eras.If the park wasn't a consideration then I generally just picked a good team from the era in question. The main thing to understand is that the years in the team names are mostly meaningless apart from indicating which year the park factors and uniforms are from etc. So for example the SEA6 team is named the Seattle 2001 Mariners, but the team is composed of player seasons from 1993-2015, it's merely based in the 2001 ballpark. I'm not a huge fan of this naming convention but I couldn't think of any better options. I don't really like "Seattle Era 6 Mariners" for example.* *If you'll indulge the lament of a Seattle fan: the whole time I was putting this league together I was planning to play as SEA6 and expecting to be pretty competitive - Griffey, Edgar, Ichiro, and Felix all in their primes, peak Mike Cameron, peak Moyer, peak Seager, 2001 Bret Boone etc. Maybe this was naive given the gaping chasm of futility that was the Bavasi and Zduriencik years, but it seems like a good team on paper! Turns out it's one of the very worst of the 114 teams. Which is basically a microcosm of being a Mariners fan - investing a lot of time and energy into something only to be met with hilariously comprehensive (and yet in hindsight completely predictable) failure and disappointment.So here are the 114 teams, split absurdly into 6 divisions of 19: Northeast BOS2 Boston 1903 Americans BOS3 Boston 1946 Red Sox BOS4 Boston 1949 Red Sox BOS5 Boston 1977 Red Sox BOS6 Boston 2013 Red Sox BRO2 Brooklyn 1899 Superbas BRO3 Brooklyn 1941 Dodgers BSN1 Boston 1877 Red Caps BSN2 Boston 1897 Beaneaters BSN3 Boston 1937 Bees NYG2 New York 1905 Giants NYG3 New York 1921 Giants NYY2 New York 1904 Highlanders NYY3 New York 1927 Yankees NYY4 New York 1961 Yankees NYY5 New York 1977 Yankees NYY6 New York 2011 Yankees PHA2 Philadelphia 1905 Athletics PHA3 Philadelphia 1929 Athletics East ATL5 Atlanta 1992 Braves ATL6 Atlanta 1998 Braves BAL4 Baltimore 1966 Orioles BAL5 Baltimore 1969 Orioles BAL6 Baltimore 1997 Orioles MIA6 Miami 2014 Marlins NYG1 New York 1891 Giants NYM5 New York 1986 Mets NYM6 New York 2015 Mets PHI1 Philadelphia 1887 Quakers PHI2 Philadelphia 1915 Phillies PHI3 Philadelphia 1932 Phillies PHI4 Philadelphia 1952 Phillies PHI5 Philadelphia 1976 Phillies PHI6 Philadelphia 2011 Phillies TBR6 Tampa Bay 2008 Rays WSH2 Washington 1910 Senators WSH3 Washington 1930 Senators WSN6 Washington 2014 Nationals Central BLN1 Baltimore 1895 Orioles CIN1 Cincinnati 1884 Red Stockings CIN2 Cincinnati 1904 Reds CIN3 Cincinnati 1940 Reds CIN4 Cincinnati 1965 Reds CIN5 Cincinnati 1975 Reds CIN6 Cincinnati 2012 Reds KCR5 Kansas City 1977 Royals KCR6 Kansas City 2015 Royals LOU1 Louisville 1890 Colonels MIN4 Minnesota 1965 Twins MIN5 Minnesota 1991 Twins MIN6 Minnesota 2010 Twins PIT1 Pittsburgh 1891 Pirates PIT2 Pittsburgh 1902 Pirates PIT3 Pittsburgh 1925 Pirates PIT4 Pittsburgh 1960 Pirates PIT5 Pittsburgh 1971 Pirates PIT6 Pittsburgh 2015 Pirates Great Lakes CHW2 Chicago 1905 White Sox CHW3 Chicago 1920 White Sox CHW4 Chicago 1954 White Sox CHW5 Chicago 1983 White Sox CHW6 Chicago 1994 White Sox CLE2 Cleveland 1906 Naps CLE3 Cleveland 1920 Indians CLE4 Cleveland 1948 Indians CLE5 Cleveland 1976 Indians CLE6 Cleveland 1995 Indians CLV1 Cleveland 1892 Spiders DET2 Detroit 1909 Tigers DET3 Detroit 1935 Tigers DET4 Detroit 1968 Tigers DET5 Detroit 1984 Tigers DET6 Detroit 2013 Tigers MON5 Montreal 1979 Expos TOR5 Toronto 1985 Blue Jays TOR6 Toronto 2015 Blue Jays Midwest CHC1 Chicago 1876 White Stockings CHC2 Chicago 1906 Cubs CHC3 Chicago 1935 Cubs CHC4 Chicago 1967 Cubs CHC5 Chicago 1984 Cubs CHC6 Chicago 2008 Cubs COL6 Colorado 2007 Rockies KCA4 Kansas City 1958 Athletics MIL5 Milwaukee 1982 Brewers MIL6 Milwaukee 2011 Brewers MLN4 Milwaukee 1957 Braves SLB2 St. Louis 1916 Browns SLB3 St. Louis 1922 Browns STL1 St. Louis 1886 Browns STL2 St. Louis 1899 Perfectos STL3 St. Louis 1931 Cardinals STL4 St. Louis 1949 Cardinals STL5 St. Louis 1985 Cardinals STL6 St. Louis 2013 Cardinals West ANA6 Anaheim 2002 Angels ARI6 Arizona 1999 Diamondbacks HOU5 Houston 1986 Astros HOU6 Houston 2015 Astros LAA5 Los Angeles 1961 Angels LAD4 Los Angeles 1966 Dodgers LAD5 Los Angeles 1974 Dodgers LAD6 Los Angeles 2009 Dodgers OAK5 Oakland 1988 Athletics OAK6 Oakland 2001 Athletics SDP5 San Diego 1984 Padres SDP6 San Diego 2010 Padres SEA5 Seattle 1982 Mariners SEA6 Seattle 2001 Mariners SFG4 San Francisco 1959 Giants SFG5 San Francisco 1987 Giants SFG6 San Francisco 2002 Giants TEX5 Texas 1977 Rangers TEX6 Texas 2011 Rangers A few drawbacks of the setup and methods I've described:
*In choosing where to base these teams that straddle a relocation, I stuck with the ballpark diversity criteria. We get MIN4 rather than WSH4 so we can get a team in Metropolitan Stadium rather than a second team in Griffith Stadium. We get SFG4 rather than NYG4 so we can get Seals Stadium rather than a third era at the Polo Grounds. Which in turn means we get LAD4 rather than BRO4, to keep the Giants and Dodgers symmetrical. Since neither SLB4 nor BAL4 would net us an additional park, I just went with Baltimore because the team made such an improvement after leaving St. Louis, plus I figured there are more Orioles fans than Browns fans out there who might be downloading this.So how is the actual gameplay with this league? I've had quite a bit of fun with it but I won't lie, there's some weird stuff going on. I'm pretty new to OOTP and I have some questions about some of the strange outcomes I'm getting with this league.* I'm hoping some of this stuff is fixable.
*It's not all wacky. Some things that seem right: SEA5 is the worst team. CHC5, CLE5, and SLB2 are terrible. Pedro is the best pitcher.When I played the default all-time greats quickstart, I thought the results were reasonably close to what it might be like in real life. Hitters' stats were held down some by facing only elite pitchers, but pitchers' stats suffered more due to the multiplier effects of nearly every lineup slot being occupied by an elite hitter. Moreover, the best hitters were still the best hitters and the best pitchers were still the best pitchers. That's definitely not the case with this league right now, even though in theory the stats should be closer to real life because the overall talent distribution is closer to real life. Anyway, I apologize for the length of this post. It's big, like the league I made. I had a lot of fun putting this together and I hope other folks are able to get some enjoyment out of it too. I love that the depth of OOTP makes this kind of thing possible. I'm really curious to hear any feedback for how to improve the quickstart as a whole, and to learn more about some of the weird results I mentioned above. Thanks and enjoy! Download the quickstart here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/goanpzp876...quick.zip?dl=0 Last edited by moonlight graham; 01-29-2017 at 03:09 PM. |
01-27-2017, 01:23 PM | #2 |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Orange City, FL
Posts: 258
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I'll be downloading this later this evening! Looking forward to it!
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When they start the game, they don't yell, "Work ball." They say, "Play ball." ~Willie Stargell, 1981 |
01-27-2017, 05:46 PM | #3 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,520
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On Indians where's Andrew Miller and so on from 2016 Team? Cubs Chapman/Baez/Zobrist and so on 2016 Team? Southeast Division? California? Full Minor Leagues? Looks great.
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! Last edited by mgom27; 01-27-2017 at 07:11 PM. |
01-27-2017, 08:52 PM | #4 | |
Bat Boy
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 10
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Quote:
As of now Miller is with NYY6 for his 2015 year. Your asking about Miller reminded me of something I forgot to mention though, which is that I ignored multi-team seasons, mostly because my spreadsheet wasn't really conducive to mucking around with them. But again, in general I'm looking for a player's best season with his best team, and I figure it's going to be relatively uncommon that a partial season fits that bill. As for full minor leagues, I decided to follow the lead of the default all-timers quickstart and forgo them in favor of a reserve roster only. I actually I haven't messed around with MiLB at all yet so it'd be well beyond my capabilities to set it up on this scale. Besides, basically every useful player in the history of MLB is already present and accounted for here, so if we stuck with historical guys for the minors it would be almost entirely scrubs, although I guess that's not so different from the real minors. I did enable the amateur draft and international/indy free agents so multi-year GMs will hopefully be able to fill roster holes that open up that way. |
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01-28-2017, 11:33 AM | #5 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,520
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Their are some Guys that are on 2 Teams and you have Bryant on the Cubs so Baez others could be put on one of the Cubs Teams.
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! |
01-28-2017, 02:18 PM | #6 | |
Bat Boy
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 10
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Quote:
I just double checked the player database and couldn't find any duplicate players that are on more than one team so if you're seeing some, I'm curious where. Part of the whole thing I wanted to do was only have one season from each player. |
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01-28-2017, 03:05 PM | #7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,520
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Thanks and theirs other Cubs/Indians from Last years World Series Rosters that might be needed. Also Zobrist played on 2015 Royals.
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Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! |
02-21-2017, 11:33 PM | #8 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Herscher, IL
Posts: 2,456
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Thanks for all the work you put into this. I have been kicking around doing a massive league myself - with the existing 30 organizations having minor leagues and running a full draft. The player pool, while a bit bigger than my initial idea, will work well with that setup. Looking forward to tweaking this for my idea as well as using your original 114 teams.
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04-06-2017, 06:17 PM | #9 |
Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
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How do you move this quickstart from the downloaded file to the game?
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