Historical database issues thread - Page 6

dewelar · 04-03-2017, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Minor detail but this guy may be my favorite player from the distant past and being a Texan I have to say something. Tris Speaker imports as being born in Hubbard, Ohio while he was actually born in Hubbard, Texas. I would guess this is in the database but if not please ignore. I actually noticed this in OOTP17 but forgot to post about it.

This is a global issue about which I posted on the main Bug Report board. All players who play in cities that have the same name import as being from one particular city -- I believe the one with the highest population. As an example, everyone born in any city named "Springfield" (Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, etc.) will show up as being from Springfield, Massachusetts on import. There was no response when I posted a thread for this bug, so no idea if anything's going on regarding fixing it.

Spritze · 04-03-2017, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewelar

This is a global issue about which I posted on the main Bug Report board. All players who play in cities that have the same name import as being from one particular city -- I believe the one with the highest population. As an example, everyone born in any city named "Springfield" (Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, etc.) will show up as being from Springfield, Massachusetts on import. There was no response when I posted a thread for this bug, so no idea if anything's going on regarding fixing it.

This bug was passed on to the people in charge of the OOTP World along with a list of the missing Cities that result in Unknown birthplaces each of the last two years. Not yet this year. They have not yet taken action on either challenge. As they are volunteers any voluntary actions taken to fix these challenges are voluntary. As these challenges do not effect gameplay I suspect they are at the bottom of whoever is the OOTP Worldinators to do list. Perhaps he/she/they need voluntary help? Contact LukasBerger if helping out is something you would like to do. Voluntarily of course. Most likely he is voluntarily looking for volunteers on a volunteer basis.

dewelar · 04-03-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

This bug was passed on to the people in charge of the OOTP World along with a list of the missing Cities that result in Unknown birthplaces each of the last two years. Not yet this year. They have not yet taken action on either challenge. As they are volunteers any voluntary actions taken to fix these challenges are voluntary. As these challenges do not effect gameplay I suspect they are at the bottom of whoever is the OOTP Worldinators to do list. Perhaps he/she/they need voluntary help? Contact LukasBerger if helping out is something you would like to do. Voluntarily of course. Most likely he is voluntarily looking for volunteers on a volunteer basis.

That's good to know, thanks. Actually it appears some work has been done on the unknown birthplaces, as I've seen a few players import with larger towns close to their actual birthplaces. It does seem like the vast majority of the unknown birthplaces (at least in the US) are just towns with <1k population which weren't included in the world.dat file, which I certainly understand. On the other hand, a lot of 2016 debut players seem to be coming in with a birthplace of where they went to school rather than where they were actually born, which is odd.

I don't think I can do anything about the city name import bug, but I have been adding a lot of those <1K birthplaces manually to my own world file, so if there's anything I can do to help on that or any other front I'd be happy to do so. At one point last year I went a bit crazy and created "states" for England and moved the vast majority of the towns into their appropriate subdivisions, but I don't know if that would even be helpful now. So, what would be the best way to bring this up? Just quote this post and send it to Lukas via the board?

Spritze · 04-03-2017, 03:46 PM

Yes - PM him perhaps? Lukas is not a volunteer so bug him on this as often as you like. He probably knows who the OOTP Whirledinater is as well.

scott1964 · 04-04-2017, 10:44 AM

Fictional players in my Historical Draft
In my 1876 Draft i noticed some players that I did not recognize. I looked them up and noticed they were not real. I had 128 players when there should be 19. I went through the list and I had 22. Steve Bellan, Whitey Ritterson and John Morrill in addition to the 19 Rookies for the 1877 season. The previous season my schedule was screwed up and i adjusted my draft day slightly forward. Other than that I have not touched any other settings. Other than trying to fix the schedule which I could not.

I did try to adjust the number of rounds in the draft in hopes to get rid of the fictional players

actionjackson · 04-04-2017, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott1964

Fictional players in my Historical Draft
In my 1876 Draft i noticed some players that I did not recognize. I looked them up and noticed they were not real. I had 128 players when there should be 19. I went through the list and I had 22. Steve Bellan, Whitey Ritterson and John Morrill in addition to the 19 Rookies for the 1877 season. The previous season my schedule was screwed up and i adjusted my draft day slightly forward. Other than that I have not touched any other settings. Other than trying to fix the schedule which I could not.

I did try to adjust the number of rounds in the draft in hopes to get rid of the fictional players

I believe this may have cropped up in OOTP17 as well. Spritze said something about making your draft date December 15th every year, and your reveal date December 1st, but since the reveal dates are only available in increments of five, go for 15 days prior to the draft date. Not sure what you can do about this particular draft class, which appears to be a bit of a mishmash with the three extra players though.

actionjackson · 04-04-2017, 01:56 PM

Building off the previous post, have you checked for this issue in your game? Make sure to check/uncheck whatever you have to check/uncheck (a bit confused by the whole issue, but there must be something to it).

Supermercado · 04-05-2017, 03:52 AM

The Texas League just showed up in 1919 and every team has a stadium capacity of 45,000! I don't really care because presumably the league baseline will regulate it but just something to look out for when the leagues are created. Possibly not a database issue as such.

thehef · 04-05-2017, 04:40 AM

Not sure if this is a historical db issue or not, and if not, it may just be a Real Life Stats display thing that doesn't affect much else. Can't hurt to report it, I'm thinking...

So the Real Life Stats in OOTP for Danny Green (b. 11/6/1876 in Burlington, NJ) show that after several seasons with first the Cubs and then the White Sox, he then played 1906, 1907, and part of 1908 with the St Louis Browns. However, Green actually spent these seasons - and accumulated the stats shown in OOTP - with Milwaukee of the American Association.

(I noticed that in my league he had just finished his fourth straight torrid year in triple-A, so I wondered who he was. I started by looking at his RL Stats in OOTP, then I wondered how he ended up in AAA instead of in MLB... checked his bbref.com history... and saw that it did not match OOTP...)

Anyways, I've seen on the board where many RL stats issues in OOTP end up being either a bbref.com issue and/or cosmetic. If this is one of those, fine. If not, well there you have it

clamel · 04-05-2017, 06:26 AM

Hm,
I think I recall a note I mentioned in perhaps ver 16 and still the famous Oil Can Boyd pops up with his twin.
Oil Can Boyd is double starting a league in 1987.
Clear duplicate, with one starting in Red Sox and the other in single-A Winter Haven.

Lets hope I don't see the old Nemesis Mr. Boyd in doubles in later updates, since one of him can be just enough

Stats on these two Boyds are divided. The MLB version only MLB Real Life stats present, and the evil twin got the all the Real Life MiLB stats.

Not sure if this has been up before BUT Randy St.Claire is double too.
One with St.Claire and the other without the dot (St Claire).The "dotted" version has all the MiLB stats and the other the MLB stats.This "dotted" version is in AA Jacksonville, so much closer to his twin in Montreal Expos.

Do look into this problem, together with other mentioned doubles.
It creates a huge problem playing Historical leagues when this "other" bloke hides in the minors. My concern is that in a couple of years of play he pops up to challenge his "twin" and you haven't seen him until then. Seems to late then to put that other twin to "rest".

I know keeping this "double"- problem under raps is a humongus achievement, but sadly needed to have this part of the game playable IMHO.

I had a stunning look at Tug McGraw in this starting up 1987 season as a FA. I recall that he retired in 1985 but apparently he came back for 2 MiLB season in 89-90. I guess he perhaps should be imported because of these extra 2 years of sort, but not in 87 ??
I have seen other minors with gap years that don't pop up in their "lost" years and then hopefully gets imported when they do return to baseball in any form.

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 09:51 AM

Boyd = fixed His real name is Dennis
Saint = fixed

Doubles happen when names and/or birthdates do not match between sources. Computers are very literal. Close does not count so we need human eyes to pick these up.

Thanks for reporting these.

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Not sure if this is a historical db issue or not, and if not, it may just be a Real Life Stats display thing that doesn't affect much else. Can't hurt to report it, I'm thinking...

The database is correct and has Milwaukee AAA in the AA. This is an actual program bug. OOTP has issues with teams using the same name as a future MLB team (Milwaukee Brewers, San Diego Padres, etc.) The in game ratings for this player will be correct.

Warhawk · 04-05-2017, 10:18 AM

Not sure if this belongs here and I'm hardly a historical expert, but I've noticed on my new game (which includes importing historical minors and is in challenge mode so no recalc, if that is relelvant), Danny Murphy (2B & RF from 1900-1913, mostly with the Philadelphia Athletics) is showing up as having a bit of minor league pitching stats in 1901, as well as 1914 and 1915. Two issues, first being that the 1901 stats and 1914 stats are identical, second being that I can't find any record of him pitching in the minor leagues after a cursory internet search. The problem is I'm in 1903, he's with the Giants (who he did start his ML career with), his only listed position is pitcher, and he has an 80 stuff rating and is a 300+ K guy ever year, which is bizarre for the era.

EDIT: I just checked and if you create a game where you don't import historical minors, he does show up as a second baseman, but if you do import historical minors, he shows up as a pitcher primarily with a very bad 2B defense attribute.

I could also complain about Tony Thebo being projected as a 300K guy in my current season, but since he's a minors-only player maybe that's just due to the vagarities of doing challenge mode with historical minors. Dude's a 70/60/65 guy (on the 20-80 scale) in my game with a 70+ fastball, cutter, and changeup, though. Also weird for the era.

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermercado

The Texas League just showed up in 1919 and every team has a stadium capacity of 45,000! I don't really care because presumably the league baseline will regulate it but just something to look out for when the leagues are created. Possibly not a database issue as such.

The database has no ballpark info in it other than the name.

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhawk

Not sure if this belongs here and I'm hardly a historical expert, but I've noticed on my new game (which includes importing historical minors and is in challenge mode so no recalc, if that is relelvant), Danny Murphy (2B & RF from 1900-1913, mostly with the Philadelphia Athletics) is showing up as having a bit of minor league pitching stats in 1901, as well as 1914 and 1915. Two issues, first being that the 1901 stats and 1914 stats are identical, second being that I can't find any record of him pitching in the minor leagues after a cursory internet search. The problem is I'm in 1903, he's with the Giants (who he did start his ML career with), his only listed position is pitcher, and he has an 80 stuff rating and is a 300+ K guy ever year, which is bizarre for the era.

EDIT: I just checked and if you create a game where you don't import historical minors, he does show up as a second baseman, but if you do import historical minors, he shows up as a pitcher primarily with a very bad 2B defense attribute.

I could also complain about Tony Thebo being projected as a 300K guy in my current season, but since he's a minors-only player maybe that's just due to the vagarities of doing challenge mode with historical minors. Dude's a 70/60/65 guy (on the 20-80 scale) in my game with a 70+ fastball, cutter, and changeup, though. Also weird for the era.

Fixed Murphy just now.
Thebo already fixed.

You will see the fixes sometime in the next patch or two.

clamel · 04-05-2017, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Boyd = fixed His real name is Dennis
Saint = fixed

Doubles happen when names and/or birthdates do not match between sources. Computers are very literal. Close does not count so we need human eyes to pick these up.

Thanks for reporting these.

Good mate,
but that Oil Can problem might be something other.
Both my players are born same date AND both named Oil Can.
Certainly it's Dennis but that isn't mentioned at all in my start. I got nickname unticked too. Never liked that

So name/birthdate match 100%, still both came into the game.
The Claire thing I can understand, the dot made the case.
Do test Mr. Boyd, since I think he has been up on notice in earlier versions and he is very persistent

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 01:21 PM

Boyd = fixed

The 2 Oils were unconnected. Now they are. One had given name as Dennis, the other was Oil Can. I doubt Oil Can was on his certificate of live birth (long form).

thehef · 04-05-2017, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

The database is correct and has Milwaukee AAA in the AA. This is an actual program bug. OOTP has issues with teams using the same name as a future MLB team (Milwaukee Brewers, San Diego Padres, etc.) The in game ratings for this player will be correct.

Good to know, thanks. I'm sure I've seen this answer before but don't always know when it applies. Better to report if unsure, I always say. (Which annoys my wife, especially when it has absolutely no relevance to the subject at hand.)

Spritze · 04-05-2017, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I believe this may have cropped up in OOTP17 as well.

This cropped up in OOTP17 when the draft date was shifted to a later date to stop the AI from releasing top draft choices like Lou Gehrig on 12/31. Had unintended consequences. OOTP says this issue cannot be reproduced but I and many others can reproduce this with ease. I have given up after reporting this issue to OOTP many times. Perhaps someone else may have better luck. Perhaps my explanatory bug text is at fault.

clamel · 04-05-2017, 04:08 PM

I got another short question on how and who gets imported.
I understand that if you start a season when a MLB player had a missing year he will import whenever he came back to MLB or MiLB.

But how about minor league players ?

I got an ex. in Scott Skripko (hm who?) whoever he serves nicely as an ex.

He is present in the DB, since I could import him.
I started in 1987, the strange year for him. He played both OF and Pitcher the previous year and got a gap year in 1987. However he is register as playing 7 games, but no records in innings or plate app.
Guess he was just sitting on the bench.
He gets back in 1988 and 1989 but never gets imported.

04-03-2017, 03:46 PM	#104
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Yes - PM him perhaps? Lukas is not a volunteer so bug him on this as often as you like. He probably knows who the OOTP Whirledinater is as well. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

04-04-2017, 10:44 AM	#105
scott1964 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 5,561 Blog Entries: 19	Fictional players in my Historical Draft Fictional players in my Historical Draft In my 1876 Draft i noticed some players that I did not recognize. I looked them up and noticed they were not real. I had 128 players when there should be 19. I went through the list and I had 22. Steve Bellan, Whitey Ritterson and John Morrill in addition to the 19 Rookies for the 1877 season. The previous season my schedule was screwed up and i adjusted my draft day slightly forward. Other than that I have not touched any other settings. Other than trying to fix the schedule which I could not. I did try to adjust the number of rounds in the draft in hopes to get rid of the fictional players __________________ This just feels more like waiting in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles. PETA.....People Eating Tasty Animals.

04-05-2017, 09:51 AM	#111
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Boyd = fixed His real name is Dennis Saint = fixed Doubles happen when names and/or birthdates do not match between sources. Computers are very literal. Close does not count so we need human eyes to pick these up. Thanks for reporting these. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

04-05-2017, 10:18 AM	#113
Warhawk Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 437	Not sure if this belongs here and I'm hardly a historical expert, but I've noticed on my new game (which includes importing historical minors and is in challenge mode so no recalc, if that is relelvant), Danny Murphy (2B & RF from 1900-1913, mostly with the Philadelphia Athletics) is showing up as having a bit of minor league pitching stats in 1901, as well as 1914 and 1915. Two issues, first being that the 1901 stats and 1914 stats are identical, second being that I can't find any record of him pitching in the minor leagues after a cursory internet search. The problem is I'm in 1903, he's with the Giants (who he did start his ML career with), his only listed position is pitcher, and he has an 80 stuff rating and is a 300+ K guy ever year, which is bizarre for the era. EDIT: I just checked and if you create a game where you don't import historical minors, he does show up as a second baseman, but if you do import historical minors, he shows up as a pitcher primarily with a very bad 2B defense attribute. I could also complain about Tony Thebo being projected as a 300K guy in my current season, but since he's a minors-only player maybe that's just due to the vagarities of doing challenge mode with historical minors. Dude's a 70/60/65 guy (on the 20-80 scale) in my game with a 70+ fastball, cutter, and changeup, though. Also weird for the era. Last edited by Warhawk; 04-05-2017 at 10:24 AM.

04-05-2017, 01:21 PM	#117
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Boyd = fixed The 2 Oils were unconnected. Now they are. One had given name as Dennis, the other was Oil Can. I doubt Oil Can was on his certificate of live birth (long form). __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

04-04-2017, 01:56 PM	#107
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,123	Building off the previous post, have you checked for this issue in your game? Make sure to check/uncheck whatever you have to check/uncheck (a bit confused by the whole issue, but there must be something to it).

04-05-2017, 03:52 AM	#108
Supermercado Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Left Field Posts: 251	The Texas League just showed up in 1919 and every team has a stadium capacity of 45,000! I don't really care because presumably the league baseline will regulate it but just something to look out for when the leagues are created. Possibly not a database issue as such.

04-05-2017, 04:40 AM	#109
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,842	Not sure if this is a historical db issue or not, and if not, it may just be a Real Life Stats display thing that doesn't affect much else. Can't hurt to report it, I'm thinking... So the Real Life Stats in OOTP for Danny Green (b. 11/6/1876 in Burlington, NJ) show that after several seasons with first the Cubs and then the White Sox, he then played 1906, 1907, and part of 1908 with the St Louis Browns. However, Green actually spent these seasons - and accumulated the stats shown in OOTP - with Milwaukee of the American Association. (I noticed that in my league he had just finished his fourth straight torrid year in triple-A, so I wondered who he was. I started by looking at his RL Stats in OOTP, then I wondered how he ended up in AAA instead of in MLB... checked his bbref.com history... and saw that it did not match OOTP...) Anyways, I've seen on the board where many RL stats issues in OOTP end up being either a bbref.com issue and/or cosmetic. If this is one of those, fine. If not, well there you have it

04-05-2017, 06:26 AM	#110
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	Hm, I think I recall a note I mentioned in perhaps ver 16 and still the famous Oil Can Boyd pops up with his twin. Oil Can Boyd is double starting a league in 1987. Clear duplicate, with one starting in Red Sox and the other in single-A Winter Haven. Lets hope I don't see the old Nemesis Mr. Boyd in doubles in later updates, since one of him can be just enough Stats on these two Boyds are divided. The MLB version only MLB Real Life stats present, and the evil twin got the all the Real Life MiLB stats. Not sure if this has been up before BUT Randy St.Claire is double too. One with St.Claire and the other without the dot (St Claire).The "dotted" version has all the MiLB stats and the other the MLB stats.This "dotted" version is in AA Jacksonville, so much closer to his twin in Montreal Expos. Do look into this problem, together with other mentioned doubles. It creates a huge problem playing Historical leagues when this "other" bloke hides in the minors. My concern is that in a couple of years of play he pops up to challenge his "twin" and you haven't seen him until then. Seems to late then to put that other twin to "rest". I know keeping this "double"- problem under raps is a humongus achievement, but sadly needed to have this part of the game playable IMHO. I had a stunning look at Tug McGraw in this starting up 1987 season as a FA. I recall that he retired in 1985 but apparently he came back for 2 MiLB season in 89-90. I guess he perhaps should be imported because of these extra 2 years of sort, but not in 87 ?? I have seen other minors with gap years that don't pop up in their "lost" years and then hopefully gets imported when they do return to baseball in any form.

04-05-2017, 04:08 PM	#120
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	I got another short question on how and who gets imported. I understand that if you start a season when a MLB player had a missing year he will import whenever he came back to MLB or MiLB. But how about minor league players ? I got an ex. in Scott Skripko (hm who?) whoever he serves nicely as an ex. He is present in the DB, since I could import him. I started in 1987, the strange year for him. He played both OF and Pitcher the previous year and got a gap year in 1987. However he is register as playing 7 games, but no records in innings or plate app. Guess he was just sitting on the bench. He gets back in 1988 and 1989 but never gets imported.