Is there actually any skill involved in this game or is it all random luck?

Accipiter · 11-09-2013, 11:21 PM

I've been running a sim after a league draft 25 seasons ago, and it seems to me that 90% of this game (especially pitching) is luck. For the last few years I've had two pitchers on my team that are around 80 ratings...yet their combined records are under .500 and their ERAs are over 4.50. Meanwhile a guy I have that is rated a 20 is several games over .500 in that same span. It's like the game just 'chooses' which players are going to be good, irrespective of ratings.

I also noticed that potential ratings don't mean a thing. I noticed I had a guy who's ratings were gradually creeping up, as you usually see with young guys, but his overall rating wasn't changing by that much. I tried an experiment; I took all of his actual ratings and set them to what they could be potentially. The result? His overall rating was still far short of his potential rating...even though he had nowhere left to improve! His current/potential ratings for every field were identical.

I guess I just don't get this game. It only works if you're using actual historical players. Otherwise the ratings don't seem to correlate very strongly to performance, especially on the pitching side of things. I have 7 guys in my bullpen with ratings over 73, and not one of them has an ERA under 4.5, and not one has a winning record in the last 5 years. It's baffling 140M payroll, I'm producing almost 5 runs per game on offense...and have 5 straight losing years. Kind of ruins the game, you might as well go spend your time playing bingo, that's all this game amounts to

slugga27 · 11-09-2013, 11:47 PM

Short version...it's luck, to an extent. The user has control by recognizing when something isn't working (i.e. your cleanup hitter is hitting .200 after two months) and making changes.

Long version...I could write a novel on how much more to OOTP there is than just sheer luck, so I'm just not going to bother going into it.

Accipiter · 11-09-2013, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugga27

Short version...it's luck, to an extent. The user has control by recognizing when something isn't working (i.e. your cleanup hitter is hitting .200 after two months) and making changes.

Long version...I could write a novel on how much more to OOTP there is than just sheer luck, so I'm just not going to bother going into it.

Yeah, it sucks. I sign a couple of these guys to 17 or 18M/year contracts...and they can't keep their ERAs below 5, even with ratings pushing or at 80. Kind of makes the game pointless. I tried something else, I set every rating for all my starts to 250 in the editor, just to see how they would do...honestly...better... but not by much. ERAs around 3.50 or so, one guy near 3. This is with every pitch rating, control, and movement all at 250. I actually tried doing it partway through a season, I was a couple games below .500 at that point overall....I finished 10 below lol

This game is a good scam, suckers us into forking over our money because we actually believe there's skill or strategy when it's basically a text based slot machine.

Accipiter · 11-10-2013, 12:01 AM

yeah definitely time to uninstall, gave every single guy on my team perfect ratings at everything, team finished below .500 lmao what kind of idiot thinks there's any kill or strategy involved in this piece of ****?

Fyrestorm3 · 11-10-2013, 12:10 AM

I will not feed the troll, other than to ask what his scouting settings are.

And also to point out that the 2013 Red Sox were picked to finish dead last in the AL East by many sources.

Tyler87898 · 11-10-2013, 12:11 AM

I don't know if this is another troll or something, but pitching is not just about the pitcher, but about the fielding.

This sounds like a troll through.

D-BacksJosh · 11-10-2013, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accipiter

This game is a good scam, suckers us into forking over our money because we actually believe there's skill or strategy when it's basically a text based slot machine.

Sorry to hear you can't put together a winning team or hand out productive contracts. Sounds like the only one that got suckered was you.

slugga27 · 11-10-2013, 01:23 AM

I like how the OP "thanked" me for my post.

Memo to OP: I wasn't agreeing with you. lol

hopeful1212 · 11-10-2013, 01:40 AM

When my team is doing well, it's all skill. On the other hand, when it's playing poorly, it's all bad luck.

Sweed · 11-10-2013, 02:06 AM

Yeah, when you don't have the skill to win at the game or even be competitive it must be the game's fault. Couldn't possibly be yours.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-10-2013, 03:39 AM

I just got eliminated from the playoffs with a grand slam in the 9th inning. This game is rigged! I'm never playing it again!

hfield007 · 11-10-2013, 05:53 AM

You mean just by virtue of paying a player 17 million he has to turn in all-star seasons the rest of his career!!!???

Someone had better alert Barry Zito and tell him he's doing it wrong!

Westheim · 11-10-2013, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

This game is rigged! I'm never playing it again!

There will be games that will make you think exactly that. I remember the World Series that I lost in six games because my team absolutely failed to score (after posting 4.9 R/G in the regular season and facing a 88-74 team with so-so pitching), especially in three games that went 13 or more innings. Finally lost on a fielding error by a sure-handed, top-notch outfielder. Had that "can't be! can't be!!" feeling for a week.

There is actually actual skill involved in this game. It starts with cross-checking your scout's report, the OSA report, actual stats, and possibly park factors before signing/extending/trading for a player. If all three say he's a bean, than he's probably a bean and doesn't deserve the precious dollars. If all three agree on him being a stud, then you can still have bad luck.

JMDurron · 11-10-2013, 09:21 AM

Sounds like the OP might have the 2013 Detroit Tigers problem - great pitching, some really good hitting, and "Holy Crap Somebody Call Tom Emanski RIGHT NOW" level bad defense.

HuachucaThunder · 11-10-2013, 10:09 AM

I wonder, if after he adjusted the ratings, if a re-scout was ran to update the players' profile and ratings. I have found out that even making a small adjustment to a rating, it will not take effect until rescout is selected.

Déjà Bru · 11-10-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accipiter

yeah definitely time to uninstall, gave every single guy on my team perfect ratings at everything, team finished below .500 lmao what kind of idiot thinks there's any kill or strategy involved in this piece of ****?

I've stopped reading at this point. This thread is lame; at best it's uninformed, at worst it's trollish. Ignore list for you, buddy.

The Wolf · 11-10-2013, 12:28 PM

Troll.

Can we get this thread closed, please?

Westheim · 11-10-2013, 12:31 PM

This thread can actually turn into a useful discussion if we ignore the trolling and talk about the following:

Do we indeed blame adverse results mostly on "bad luck", but good results on our "great managing talents"?

I fear I do.

Just started a new season and the opening week has seen some pretty nasty hitting, pitching, catching, fielding, and running my by team, and two 1-0 wins in which the pitchers gave up some solid contact. I'm pretty sure that I don't do much "great managing" by letting a guy pitch a 2-hitter on 98 pitches if the bullpen is in tethers anyway.

Of course, that 11-3 loss a few days earlier was all bad luck and evil dice rolls.

Tram2Whitaker · 11-10-2013, 12:47 PM

I think if you think of this game, the same way as Dungeons and Dragons, or an RPG, where if your stats are high enough, you can roll pretty much any number, and it will be effective; at the same time, if your stats aren't high, you can still roll some damage, but the odds are not in your favor. But regardless of where your stats lie, it is still subject to the rolling of the die.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-10-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

There will be games that will make you think exactly that. I remember the World Series that I lost in six games because my team absolutely failed to score (after posting 4.9 R/G in the regular season and facing a 88-74 team with so-so pitching), especially in three games that went 13 or more innings. Finally lost on a fielding error by a sure-handed, top-notch outfielder. Had that "can't be! can't be!!" feeling for a week.

There is actually actual skill involved in this game. It starts with cross-checking your scout's report, the OSA report, actual stats, and possibly park factors before signing/extending/trading for a player. If all three say he's a bean, than he's probably a bean and doesn't deserve the precious dollars. If all three agree on him being a stud, then you can still have bad luck.

I was being tongue-in-cheek. I just had it happen, and felt like it was a good example to be sarcastic with.

11-09-2013, 11:21 PM	#1
Accipiter Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 43	Is there actually any skill involved in this game or is it all random luck? I've been running a sim after a league draft 25 seasons ago, and it seems to me that 90% of this game (especially pitching) is luck. For the last few years I've had two pitchers on my team that are around 80 ratings...yet their combined records are under .500 and their ERAs are over 4.50. Meanwhile a guy I have that is rated a 20 is several games over .500 in that same span. It's like the game just 'chooses' which players are going to be good, irrespective of ratings. I also noticed that potential ratings don't mean a thing. I noticed I had a guy who's ratings were gradually creeping up, as you usually see with young guys, but his overall rating wasn't changing by that much. I tried an experiment; I took all of his actual ratings and set them to what they could be potentially. The result? His overall rating was still far short of his potential rating...even though he had nowhere left to improve! His current/potential ratings for every field were identical. I guess I just don't get this game. It only works if you're using actual historical players. Otherwise the ratings don't seem to correlate very strongly to performance, especially on the pitching side of things. I have 7 guys in my bullpen with ratings over 73, and not one of them has an ERA under 4.5, and not one has a winning record in the last 5 years. It's baffling 140M payroll, I'm producing almost 5 runs per game on offense...and have 5 straight losing years. Kind of ruins the game, you might as well go spend your time playing bingo, that's all this game amounts to

11-10-2013, 03:39 AM	#11
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	I just got eliminated from the playoffs with a grand slam in the 9th inning. This game is rigged! I'm never playing it again! Attached Images

11-10-2013, 12:31 PM	#18
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 11,892	This thread can actually turn into a useful discussion if we ignore the trolling and talk about the following: Do we indeed blame adverse results mostly on "bad luck", but good results on our "great managing talents"? I fear I do. Just started a new season and the opening week has seen some pretty nasty hitting, pitching, catching, fielding, and running my by team, and two 1-0 wins in which the pitchers gave up some solid contact. I'm pretty sure that I don't do much "great managing" by letting a guy pitch a 2-hitter on 98 pitches if the bullpen is in tethers anyway. Of course, that 11-3 loss a few days earlier was all bad luck and evil dice rolls. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

11-10-2013, 12:47 PM	#19
Tram2Whitaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 619	I think if you think of this game, the same way as Dungeons and Dragons, or an RPG, where if your stats are high enough, you can roll pretty much any number, and it will be effective; at the same time, if your stats aren't high, you can still roll some damage, but the odds are not in your favor. But regardless of where your stats lie, it is still subject to the rolling of the die. __________________ 404'd!

11-09-2013, 11:47 PM	#2
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,252	Short version...it's luck, to an extent. The user has control by recognizing when something isn't working (i.e. your cleanup hitter is hitting .200 after two months) and making changes. Long version...I could write a novel on how much more to OOTP there is than just sheer luck, so I'm just not going to bother going into it.

11-10-2013, 12:01 AM	#4
Accipiter Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 43	yeah definitely time to uninstall, gave every single guy on my team perfect ratings at everything, team finished below .500 lmao what kind of idiot thinks there's any kill or strategy involved in this piece of ****?

11-10-2013, 12:10 AM	#5
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	I will not feed the troll, other than to ask what his scouting settings are. And also to point out that the 2013 Red Sox were picked to finish dead last in the AL East by many sources.

11-10-2013, 12:11 AM	#6
Tyler87898 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 791	I don't know if this is another troll or something, but pitching is not just about the pitcher, but about the fielding. This sounds like a troll through.

11-10-2013, 01:23 AM	#8
slugga27 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,252	I like how the OP "thanked" me for my post. Memo to OP: I wasn't agreeing with you. lol

11-10-2013, 01:40 AM	#9
hopeful1212 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 385 Blog Entries: 257	When my team is doing well, it's all skill. On the other hand, when it's playing poorly, it's all bad luck.

11-10-2013, 02:06 AM	#10
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,093 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Yeah, when you don't have the skill to win at the game or even be competitive it must be the game's fault. Couldn't possibly be yours.

11-10-2013, 05:53 AM	#12
hfield007 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,650	You mean just by virtue of paying a player 17 million he has to turn in all-star seasons the rest of his career!!!??? Someone had better alert Barry Zito and tell him he's doing it wrong!

11-10-2013, 09:21 AM	#14
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,262	Sounds like the OP might have the 2013 Detroit Tigers problem - great pitching, some really good hitting, and "Holy Crap Somebody Call Tom Emanski RIGHT NOW" level bad defense.

11-10-2013, 10:09 AM	#15
HuachucaThunder Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 210	I wonder, if after he adjusted the ratings, if a re-scout was ran to update the players' profile and ratings. I have found out that even making a small adjustment to a rating, it will not take effect until rescout is selected.