|
||||
|
05-25-2006, 11:51 PM | #61 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
|
Quote:
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you. |
|
05-26-2006, 12:35 AM | #62 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
Posts: 15,413
|
Quote:
Quote:
But wait... you can't provide such evidence or facts because you haven't played the game. Therefore, what other conclusion can there be other than you SPECULATING and GUESSING that the effect of said ratings would be large and significant. You ASSUMED the effects of such ratings would be so dramatic that it would be "killing" historical simming and rendering "impossible" the production of historical rosters (the quotes are your words). YOU'RE the one who made the claim that historical leagues were DEAD. It is therefore incumbent upon YOU to provide the EVIDENCE which conclusively demonstrates the validity of your assertion. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" as the old saying goes. So what evidence are you going to provide related to OOTP2006 which proves historical leagues are dead in the game? Sorry, but past experiences with other titles do not count. We're not talking about other games. Sorry, but personal preferences do not count, as they are preferences and not evidence. Sorry, but guesswork and assumptions do not count as they are guesswork and assumptions. So, what evidence are you going to provide to prove your thesis? Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 05-26-2006 at 01:17 AM. |
||
05-26-2006, 01:14 AM | #63 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
Posts: 15,413
|
For everyone's edification, here is MD's post from yesterday which got the whole ball of wax rolling. You can also read it here.
==================================== Unless this is changed, I am not likely to be buying OOTP 2006 I know, I know...I shouldn't start this thread. I'm even breaking my own suggestion. But right now I am appalled and aghast, and am very unlikely to be buying OOTP 2006. Why? http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=118672 Quote:
Quote:
Every single player rating needs to be visible and editable. Period. I literally cannot imagine what everyone on the inside was thinking to let this thing get off the ground, let alone allow it through. Someone claimed the other day that the beta testers represented all of the OOTP world. That's clearly total nonsense, because just so far I have seen three deal-breaking issues for the historical gamer: no in-game expansion, which kills long-term historical simming; no managerial record tracking, which kills the managerial aspects of historical gaming; and now, hidden ratings, which render the creation and play of historical rosters completely impossible. What were you people *thinking*? ==================================== So, what does a critical look at the above yield? We see the statement that certain hidden ratings exist in the game. But what we do NOT see is ANY specific mention of the EXTENT to which said ratings affect players or their performance. Not only that, but of the hidden ratings listed in Nutlaw's post, only ONE would conceivably have any impact on a historical player's on-the-field performance, and that's the injury rating. The others, team loyalty, desire for winning team, consistency, and popularity, were CONFIRMED by Markus in another thread to be of use only in financial matters. That means their effect is entirely off-the-field. Unless a historical simmer had free agency turned on and the financial engine running in full, then the chances of said off-the-field ratings affecting anything is just about nil. Of course, if a historical simmer has free agency turned on, one could question straight away the historical accuracy and legitmacy of the league since players won't be on their proper teams. So, in summary, we see the mention of the existence of certain hidden ratings, but we see no mention of the manner of their implementation nor the extent to which they may have an effect. Undaunted by the aforementioned lack of detailed facts, however, MD proceeds to make the following claims:
A rational and discerning mind will question how MD arrived at those conclusions, given the scant details on the nature and inner workings of the hidden ratings. A fair-minded individual will wonder how such broad, sweeping, and dire generalizations were made given the miniscule base upon which they stand. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 05-26-2006 at 01:17 AM. |
||
05-26-2006, 01:25 AM | #64 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,505
|
Must. Stop. Watching. Trainwreck.
|
05-26-2006, 01:26 AM | #65 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
Posts: 15,413
|
You know, I think all the time I spent demolishing D'artagnan's 9/11 conspiracy arguments in OT have really served me well in this thread...
|
05-26-2006, 01:30 AM | #66 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 14,147
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
|
May we call this the 5/31 conspiracy?
__________________
Quote:
|
|
05-26-2006, 01:48 AM | #67 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,541
|
Well said LGO. The other interesting point, one that Malleus would of course have no knowledge of since he is not a tester and has not yet played the game, is that we have been able to edit injury ratings in every beta build I have received.
I assume Markus must have missed that part of Nutlaw's post because injury ratings could definately be edited all along. And I agree injury ratings are the only one that I would feel are essential to create a good historical roster file.
__________________
Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles Columnist- The Figment Sporting Journal MY FIGMENT LEAGUE BROOKLYN KINGS DYNASTY PAST DYNASTYS My History of Hockey Replay Tiger Fan's Sporting News : the mid 1940's Tiger Fan's All Sport Replay: The 1920s History of Sports 1901-15 Historical Tutorial and Feedback League My first fictional attempt The HOB4: The last of my series of history of baseball replays that go back to OOTP2 and the old message board. |
05-26-2006, 01:52 AM | #68 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 9,541
|
I might as well cross-post this here as well since in the eyes of at least one senior member it appears you need to say the same thing in a minimum of 3 different threads to maintain any sort of seniority on this board.
I generally avoid this types of threads like the plague but I figure I better chime in here. First off a one paragraph rant because I am sick of all the crap from one or two - okay maybe just one - of the so-called senior members of this board. Whether or not your points were valid there are far more productive and adult ways to voice your concerns than the drama-queen act that you seem to prefer. You may contribute to this board in a positive way on numerous occassions but your little temper tantrums do far more damage imo than anything you contribute. A pm to Markus voicing your concerns or even a thread that did not come off sounding like you are a 4-year old wanting to take your ball and go home would have earned you a lot more respect in my book. Actually, strike that. I have a 4 year old son and to compare your behaviour to him is actually quite insulting...to my son. Anyway, I just had to get that off of my chest. I will not respond to it or discuss it any further. What I will discuss are some thoughts on the historical sim capabilities and limitations of OOTP2006. I have signed an NDA so I won't be able to mention by name any new features that have not discussed but let me start by saying that I have been testing OOTP since version 3 and I feel this is the best testing team I have seen. It is really a brand new game and throughout the process there have been plenty of bugs (just like any game I have tested for) but Markus, Marc and the rest of the team have done a fantastic job addressing them. Some quotes from this thread and my comments: Quote:
Quote:
The need to edit the other ratings really did not seem all that important to me, and in fact I somewhat prefer the randomness of it as it helps these players - historical or fictional - develop a little more personality within the game. Besides, I would love to see you or any other roster maker be able to recreate without a shadow of a doubt the proper personality ratings for Herb Pennock or Mahlon Higbee. The truth is none of us on this board can say for sure whether or not Jimmie Foxx had a higher desire to win than Joe Hauser. 99.9% of historical simmers import their rookies from the Lahman database or a user modified database and do not make much in the way of edits to the imported players. Therefore, imo, it is far more important to work on making sure the data contained in these files can translate into the most accurate primary ratings we can get instead of fretting over Benny Kauff's team loyalty rating. To that end the focus of the historical simmers on the beta team has been to make the game easier and far less labour-intensive for people to play with historical rosters. Has Markus been able to accomplish everything we want. Of course not. The big thing still missing imo is an in-game expansion draft. If I am selected as a tester again for the next version you can bet I will continue to ask for it to be implemented and hopefully we will see it next year. Read the blogs on the new features and improvements that have already been made public. The Catobase style almanac included in the game. The faster sim times. The new financial engine allowing you to completely customize your historical league from the salaries paid to players and staff to all kinds of free agency and roster size changes. Plus a couple of more that you do not know about yet...some of which, time permitting, I will include in my next blog. The bottom line is this game is so much easier for historical simmers to use. To me that is far more important than being able to edit Steve Bilko's popularity rating (although now you can do it if you so desire).
__________________
Cliff Markle HOB1 greatest pitcher 360-160, 9 Welch Awards, 11 WS titles Columnist- The Figment Sporting Journal MY FIGMENT LEAGUE BROOKLYN KINGS DYNASTY PAST DYNASTYS My History of Hockey Replay Tiger Fan's Sporting News : the mid 1940's Tiger Fan's All Sport Replay: The 1920s History of Sports 1901-15 Historical Tutorial and Feedback League My first fictional attempt The HOB4: The last of my series of history of baseball replays that go back to OOTP2 and the old message board. Last edited by Tiger Fan; 05-26-2006 at 01:54 AM. |
||
05-26-2006, 02:42 AM | #69 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,069
|
"To not rebut is to accept defeat"
Fidel Montoya Ah! In all seriousness, MD, you've got holes in your assessments among other things. ... And Takashi wasn't very happy when I showed him the thread where, at the end, you demanded credit for all the work he did.
__________________
Fidel Montoya Asahi2 Baseball ex-Commissioner(Historical League Since 2004) www.allsimbaseball.com (OOTP web hosting - Customized sites for online leagues - Sign up, Connect OOTP and Play!) Share Your Mods - Free, unlimited and easy to upload to share your Mods instantly(free site registration required) |
05-26-2006, 03:33 AM | #70 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of England Gods Country
Posts: 7,175
|
Quote:
|
|
05-26-2006, 03:38 AM | #71 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of England Gods Country
Posts: 7,175
|
Sorry it's Takeshi's Castle, (bloody rubbish that Montoya fella doesn't know Takeshi and got fired from that Maroon team last week pfft )
|
05-26-2006, 07:58 AM | #72 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Allenstown, NH
Posts: 987
|
cool cool cool
__________________
|
05-26-2006, 08:16 AM | #73 |
Hall Of Famer
|
Hmmm.
+1
__________________
5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys |
05-26-2006, 08:29 AM | #74 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,525
|
Quote:
|
|
05-26-2006, 08:47 AM | #75 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
|
I'm appalled even more.
We called a truce here, and LGO decided to keep the bullcrap up, even though the direct quotes prove him wrong. Despicable. LGO, I have lost all respect for you.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you. |
05-26-2006, 08:52 AM | #76 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,525
|
Quote:
|
|
05-26-2006, 08:54 AM | #77 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Allenstown, NH
Posts: 987
|
__________________
|
05-26-2006, 09:01 AM | #78 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
|
Quote:
Sadly, some of the people the other side have no shame and kept on.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you. |
|
05-26-2006, 09:04 AM | #79 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In front of some barbecue and a cold beer
Posts: 9,490
|
Quote:
This is useful information; it's always worthwhile to know who can be trusted and who can't be. And in keeping with the truce, *I* am not arguing the point further here.
__________________
Senior member of the OOTP boards/grizzled veteran/mod maker/surly bastage If you're playing pre-1947 American baseball, then the All-American Mod (a namefiles/ethnicites/nation/cities file pack) is for you. |
|
05-26-2006, 09:07 AM | #80 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Safety Harbor, FL
Posts: 1,525
|
Quote:
I don't want to get into it...but I know his style. |
|
Bookmarks |
|
|