Historical minor league schedules - sources for use

[Le Grande Orange]

Hey all,

I have a huge selection of minor league schedule file sources, but I don't have the time to type them out into OOTP's schedule format.

I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in tackling some of these and turning them into files which can be used in the game to provide more real-world schedules that can be used. I even have a couple of Excel files which help translate from the sources more easily.

If there's a particular league or year you're interested in, I might have it, or can provide sources similar to it. I can post source images in this thread, or PM or e-mail them.

Reply in this thread it you'd like to contribute.

[thehef]

I can't say that I'd jump all over them right away, but I definitely have an interest in, primarily, PCL schedules and, secondarily, American Assoc and Int'l Lg, especiall pre-60's...

[Scipio Africanus]

In case you're unaware, there's a long thread from 2014 featuring a bunch of historical minor league schedules. That may not be the minor leagues your thinking of doing but I wouldn't want you to spend your time duplicating something that's already been done.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=248744

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

In case you're unaware, there's a long thread from 2014 featuring a bunch of historical minor league schedules. That may not be the minor leagues your thinking of doing but I wouldn't want you to spend your time duplicating something that's already been done.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=248744

I contributed to that thread, if you read through it.

Thanks for mentioning it, there are some belated replies I need to make in there!

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I contributed to that thread, if you read through it.

Thanks for mentioning it, there are some belated replies I need to make in there!

Well get to it! Always look forward to your comments on this kind of stuff

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

Well get to it! Always look forward to your comments on this kind of stuff

I did! Though there wasn't too much to add.

I am in the process of resurrecting my minor league standings Excel file, which would put, into one file, all the minor league standings, Yes, much of this can be found at Baseball-Reference, but not as one centralized, combined item. Plus many minor league seasons there are missing data (e.g. records in each half for leagues using the split-season, playoff results, attendance) or are not available at all.

Realistically, this idea would have to be split up to make it more manageable. So the first file would be for U.S. and Canada-based minor leagues going back to 1901. No timetable on this, could be quite awhile before it's done, but I hadn't worked on this at all for several years. At least now I've got the format finalized for the file. (Unless there is something I've forgotten or overlooked.)

I also want to (eventually) start posting up some of the real-life major and minor league financial data I've accumulated over the years. Much of it is for older seasons, but it's interesting nonetheless. The annoying part is the categorization of revenue and expenses is not consistent. Some examples put a revenue source into one category while others put it into a different category. This makes it trickier to compare the finances of different clubs. Still mulling over ways to have categories that are as common as possible.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I am in the process of resurrecting my minor league standings Excel file, which would put, into one file, all the minor league standings, Yes, much of this can be found at Baseball-Reference, but not as one centralized, combined item. Plus many minor league seasons there are missing data (e.g. records in each half for leagues using the split-season, playoff results, attendance) or are not available at all.

I've found that statscrew has minor league standings that are much more complete / go much farther back than baseball-reference. If you haven't yet, check it out

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

I've found that statscrew has minor league standings that are much more complete / go much farther back than baseball-reference. If you haven't yet, check it out

I'll add it to the list of resources.

Although I will point out its standings for the 1946 International League are wrong. To be fair to them, it seems they are using the standings from the Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball (3rd Edition), which are incorrect. It lists Baltimore having an 81-74 record and Newark 80-75, and notes Baltimore defeated Newark in a one-game playoff for third place.

According to the TSN Guide covering the 1946 season, Baltimore went 81-73 and Newark 80-74, and makes no mention of any tie-breaking playoff game (although the one-game difference in record indicates it is possible one was played and not mentioned by the Guide). The book The International League — Year-by-Year Statistics, 1884–1953 by Marshall D. Wright agrees with TSN. Minor League Baseball Standings — All North American Leagues, Through 1999 by Benjamin Barrett Sumner, has Baltimore and Newark with identical 80-73 records, and noted Baltimore defeated Newark in a one-game playoff for third place. This supports the idea that the TSN Guide mistakenly omitted mention of the tie-breaking playoff game.

[Le Grande Orange]

By the way, here's an example of the data (where available) the file would contain. This is for the real-life 1984 Southern League.

If you have questions about any of the fields, ask away!

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'll add it to the list of resources.

Although I will point out its standings for the 1946 International League are wrong. To be fair to them, it seems they are using the standings from the Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball (3rd Edition), which are incorrect. It lists Baltimore having an 81-74 record and Newark 80-75, and notes Baltimore defeated Newark in a one-game playoff for third place.

According to the TSN Guide covering the 1946 season, Baltimore went 81-73 and Newark 80-74, and makes no mention of any tie-breaking playoff game (although the one-game difference in record indicates it is possible one was played and not mentioned by the Guide). The book The International League — Year-by-Year Statistics, 1884–1953 by Marshall D. Wright agrees with TSN. Minor League Baseball Standings — All North American Leagues, Through 1999 by Benjamin Barrett Sumner, has Baltimore and Newark with identical 80-73 records, and noted Baltimore defeated Newark in a one-game playoff for third place. This supports the idea that the TSN Guide mistakenly omitted mention of the tie-breaking playoff game.

According to the Montreal Gazette's reporting, at the close of the regularly-scheduled season on Sunday, Sept 8th, Baltimore & Newark finished with identical records at 80-73. League President Frank Shaughnessy ordered the two clubs to play a single game on Monday, Sept 9th, evening in order to determine 3rd place. Baltimore won that game, 10-3, to claim 3rd place with an 81-73 record, with Newark falling to 4th place at 80-74.

So it looks like each of the sources you mentioned above got it partially wrong and partially right

a) Statscrew / Encyclopedia got the one-game playoff right but has incorrect team records, giving both Balt & Nwk an extra loss...

b) TSN Guide got the records correct but didn't note the one-game playoff...

c) The IL book & Barrett Sumner's book correctly notes the one-game playoff but fails to include it in the teams' records...

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

According to the Montreal Gazette's reporting, at the close of the regularly-scheduled season on Sunday, Sept 8th, Baltimore & Newark finished with identical records at 80-73. League President Frank Shaughnessy ordered the two clubs to play a single game on Monday, Sept 9th, evening in order to determine 3rd place. Baltimore won that game, 10-3, to claim 3rd place with an 81-73 record, with Newark falling to 4th place at 80-74.

So it looks like each of the sources you mentioned above got it partially wrong and partially right

Yep. Thank goodness for multiple sources.

One thing that is interesting looking at the various Guides (Spalding, Reach, Sporting News) is that while the normal convention is to include the results of any tie-breaking playoff game(s) in the final regular season standings, there are a few cases in which such tie-breaking game(s) are not included the league standings.

My intention is to adjust final standings to follow the customary practice of including tie-breaking games for those instances in which they were not included.

[thehef]

On the subject of incorrect standings, Statscrew.com incorrectly lists the 1901 Eastern League final standings. Statscrew's final standings match those printed in the 9/23/1901 Providence Journal (and possibly other papers). However, those standings inadvertently swapped the W/L totals for Buffalo and Brockton. (Standings in Providence Journal in the days prior to the end of the season make this error pretty easy to detect & prove.)

In addition, although Statscrew correctly notes (below the standings) that the Brockton franchise has relocated from Syracuse on 7/25/19012 (and that Hartford disbanded on 9/10/1901), it does not include that the Brockton team also disbanded on or about 9/14/1901 (their final games were played on this date; not sure when they officially ceased ops). The final standings in the paper (not StatsCrew), however, do in fact indicate - via asterisk & note - that both Hartford and Brockton were disbanded.

While baseball-reference.com has been pretty responsive to corrections (both in terms of replying and correcting errors), I've found that Statscrew.com is not... at all.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by thehef

While baseball-reference.com has been pretty responsive to corrections (both in terms of replying and correcting errors), I've found that Statscrew.com is not... at all.

As an example, in early Nov 2022 I left both websites know that they incorrectly included 1917 Red Downs as being a member of the Vernon Tigers, when in reality he was player-manager of the SF Seals.

- B-R.com got back to me the next day, then followed up with updates as to where the data issue was, etc., and finally let me know a couple weeks later that the issue had been fixed.

- Some nine months later I still have not heard from Statscrew.com and - much more-importantly - the error has not been fixed.

Pretty lame, IMO. But goodonya for B-R.com!