Do you play Draft Kings and/or FanDuel? - Page 4

RonCo · 11-18-2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle were banned for working for a casino AFTER they had retired. Baseball used to be interested in keeping their product 100% free from any connection with gambling. It has nothing to do with morality......They wanted to make sure there was absolutely no chance for anyone to get the wrong impression that baseball condoned or tolerated gambling on their sport.....this was to insure that the public saw their product had integrity......

But now, they are investing in gambling houses.......times have changed.....

Yes, times have changed, but they've changed because of the fact of the gap in those two different perspectives, and because the money is so big now.

Pete Rose was not banned for betting. He was banned for betting on baseball. Mays and Mantle were reinstated because they did not bet on baseball itself. George Steinbrenner was also banned for cavorting with a gambler, but was later reinstated, again one assumes because (1) he didn't actually bet on baseball, and (2) he had a boatload of money

Every player or whoever who has been found to do something that actually influenced the competition on the field has faced permanent penalty. Otherwise, their banning has been short-lived grandstanding at best. Even back in the day.

RonCo · 11-18-2015, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

P.S> And it seems that you are all against anyone working in baseball to be betting on the game, but to be the bookie is okay?......

Assuming they run a clean book, the bookie is theoretically competition neutral. The house wins either way the game finishes. A bookie who bets on the game, however, is a different thing.

I am not arguing for or against, but I am arguing that there is a very clear difference that makes the word "hypocritical" not apply.

If gambling is a legal activity, then it makes business sense that baseball would want a cut of money being made off said gambling of people outside of baseball. It's their product. It is completely logical that they would be involved in that kind of revenue stream...again, as long as the product is legal.

There is a difference in advocacy here too ...

Baseball sells beer at its game, but it is not advocating that everyone should drink and drive home. One could attempt to argue this situation is hypocritical to some degree. But selling beer is not an advocacy of beer or getting drunk. It is filling a legal customer demand. Getting drunk is a personal thing, and individual people will suffer the ramifications of their own actions.

I do not consider baseball taking a cut of the gambling revenue that the game creates as tainting its competitive environment. But I would certainly consider it so if baseball were to go soft on any player or member of the establishment who is found to have actually wagered on events that they personally controlled or influenced with regard to the outcome of the competition itself.

Ultimately this means that as baseball gets deeper in bed with the institution of gambling, they will need to be ruthless in penalizing baseball people who are found to gamble on baseball itself.

On a personal side, as I said before, I prefer that baseball stay separate from the institution of gambling. But I'm enough of a realist to know that's not going to happen with this kind of money flowing. So this line becomes important, for baseball, and for all of the major sports of our time.

Orcin · 11-18-2015, 05:00 PM

The house knows when the betting is heavy on a particular player. It would be pretty easy to calculate what player or players could have the most impact on whether the house wins or loses by their absence. Now, who decides whether a player sits or plays? Who pays the decision maker? Who benefits when the house wins?

It's pretty naïve to assume that baseball is benefiting from the profit of these companies while doing nothing to assist with said profit. There is a potential conflict of interest to say the least.

Ah, but baseball is pure and wants nothing to do with gambling. This is not gambling anyway... it is a game of skill. Right. Sure it is.

Questdog · 11-18-2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

If gambling is a legal activity, then it makes business sense that baseball would want a cut of money being made off said gambling of people outside of baseball. It's their product. It is completely logical that they would be involved in that kind of revenue stream...again, as long as the product is legal.

Gambling was legal in Las Vegas when Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were punished. Gambling has been legal for a long time in Las Vegas, but baseball always tried to stay away from that.

And I think they should stay away from gambling in all forms now.

P.S. I do not know why Markus opened this topic, but he has never mentioned before in beta or anywhere else that I know of any desire to integrate gambling with OOTP. I think that from the number and strength of responses, he would surely take pause if that was his idea. But I doubt that was his idea....

BIG17EASY · 11-18-2015, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

True, but that does not mean OOTPB should buy into this deal. I would prefer my favorite game to stay away from any association with gambling, because that is what I believe fantasy sports has become. Too many players (and too many losers) for them to be thought of as games of skill anymore.

I am in no way saying that OOTPB should be connected in any way to these companies. I've said so numerous times. Not sure how you got that impression.

BIG17EASY · 11-18-2015, 09:09 PM

Gambling threatens the integrity of the game for obvious reasons that many have already eloquently stated. If daily fantasy websites are eventually ruled illegal across the country (which is the trend at the moment), it's pretty much guaranteed that MLB will end its partnership with those sites for equally obvious reasons.

bailey · 11-18-2015, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Hey guys,

do you play Draft Kings and / or FanDuel? It seems to be extremely popular and only growing, so we are thinking if we could add some features in OOTP which could act as a tool for users of those services.

Is there anything you could see as useful in OOTP? Would you take advantage of it in order to optimize your daily picks?

Thanks!
Markus

I have played on both sites, and to get back on topic, no I don't see anything about OOTP that could be used to help make my daily picks. You would have to setup the lineups for every team every day and then what would you do? Run a gazillion daily sims? How would you even do that? Furthermore each site has different salaries with which to buy players within its salary cap. How could OOTP possibly reflect that? Everybody knows who the best players are. It's assembling a winning team within the salary cap that is hard.

Even so, I think it might be interesting to include in box scores fantasy points akin to a draft kings or fan duel system or user defined system. I don't know what purpose it could serve though other than window
dressing.

RonCo · 11-18-2015, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Gambling threatens the integrity of the game for obvious reasons that many have already eloquently stated. If daily fantasy websites are eventually ruled illegal across the country (which is the trend at the moment), it's pretty much guaranteed that MLB will end its partnership with those sites for equally obvious reasons.

If those sites were made illegal, MLB would end its partnership with them because ... well ... because to _not_ do that would be illegal.

dickysty · 11-18-2015, 10:21 PM

I play Draft Kings every weekend. Only Football, small wagers and just friends. I do a head to head and then one with 4 friends. I enjoy it!!!!

Trebro · 11-18-2015, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

I agree that the sites are gambling sites, but MLB itself is already in bed with these "crooks", so no worry's on that front for OOTP......

But please tell me how picking the players who will have the best days is a game of skill and not gambling in MLB's eyes, but picking the TEAM that will have the better day is gambling and will get you banned for life......

I've been against the Rose ban from day one. Stance hasn't changed, and partly for the reason you cite.

BIG17EASY · 11-19-2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

If those sites were made illegal, MLB would end its partnership with them because ... well ... because to _not_ do that would be illegal.

Exactly.

Assos · 11-19-2015, 10:01 AM

Nor do I, I think the sites will go the way of the Poker sites here in the US. There are strong anti-internet gambling lobbyists in this country (anti-gamblers linked up with para-mutual (Horsey, Dog, and Jai alai) and Native American and corporate casinos)

darkcloud4579 · 11-19-2015, 10:06 AM

No, I do not. But I can see why you'd want to piggyback the potential daily fantasy market. That said, it'd almost be a different game. Not that you need my business perspective, but you'd almost be better off using your mobile game with a spinoff that works for those people.

For a daily fantasy player, I'd want something that was more predictive and better able to get daily roster sets and so forth. That'd be the issue with that, the way it's setup now most people aren't going to put the work in to use OOTP that way..and because it doesn't reflect real life, running say 100 seasons to test who might be good isn't really reflective of reality.

That said, it's not a bad thought process. It'd just require you to almost go an entirely different direction with the game to really market it well to that audience.

NYYANKS98 · 11-19-2015, 04:24 PM

No. Although I disagree with making them illegal when we have the lottery peddling tons of money, their commercials piss me off to no end so good riddance.

Where is the no option in this poll?

swoboda · 11-19-2015, 04:28 PM

No

RchW · 11-19-2015, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

True, but that does not mean OOTPB should buy into this deal. I would prefer my favorite game to stay away from any association with gambling, because that is what I believe fantasy sports has become. Too many players (and too many losers) for them to be thought of as games of skill anymore.

What deal. I don't think Markus is buying anything. Looking for a revenue stream, well... ...

dave1927p · 11-19-2015, 10:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq785nJ0FXQ
John Oliver just covered this

I don't use either.

ondemonitors · 11-19-2015, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq785nJ0FXQ
John Oliver just covered this

Epic...

ChiefWahoo · 11-20-2015, 10:09 AM

No. They're under federal investigation anyways. Deep similarities to gambling on sports. I'm not Hotrod Williams or Pete Rose.

TheMaus2 · 11-20-2015, 07:45 PM

It would be cool if there was a fantasy baseball site within the game. But alas, One day fantasy football leagues give everyone the chance to draft the biggest stars without any comittment. Not what i signed up for with OOTP. Although FanDuel type leagues in OOTP would make for interesting results.

View Poll Results: Do you play fantasy MLB with Draft Kings or FanDuel?
Draft Kings	12	23.53%
FanDuel	3	5.88%
Both	0	0%
Neither	36	70.59%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

11-18-2015, 10:21 PM	#69
dickysty Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 348 Blog Entries: 21	I play Draft Kings every weekend. Only Football, small wagers and just friends. I do a head to head and then one with 4 friends. I enjoy it!!!! __________________ NABA - Baltimore Blue Claw's Dynasty

11-19-2015, 10:06 AM	#73
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,305 Blog Entries: 32	No, I do not. But I can see why you'd want to piggyback the potential daily fantasy market. That said, it'd almost be a different game. Not that you need my business perspective, but you'd almost be better off using your mobile game with a spinoff that works for those people. For a daily fantasy player, I'd want something that was more predictive and better able to get daily roster sets and so forth. That'd be the issue with that, the way it's setup now most people aren't going to put the work in to use OOTP that way..and because it doesn't reflect real life, running say 100 seasons to test who might be good isn't really reflective of reality. That said, it's not a bad thought process. It'd just require you to almost go an entirely different direction with the game to really market it well to that audience. __________________ Godfather of Fast-Sim OOTP My Mods: GMExcel 24 Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| My (outdated) market calculator & financial spreadsheets

11-19-2015, 04:28 PM	#75
swoboda All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Guarding The Line Posts: 1,205	No __________________ "...If you want to look ahead to the bottom of the ninth, the Mets will be sending up Buddy Harrelson, Jerry Buchek , and Don Bosch, we'll be right back after this word from Rheingold Beer" The late great Lindsey Nelson

11-19-2015, 10:15 PM	#77
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,888	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq785nJ0FXQ John Oliver just covered this I don't use either. __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

11-18-2015, 05:00 PM	#63
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	The house knows when the betting is heavy on a particular player. It would be pretty easy to calculate what player or players could have the most impact on whether the house wins or loses by their absence. Now, who decides whether a player sits or plays? Who pays the decision maker? Who benefits when the house wins? It's pretty naïve to assume that baseball is benefiting from the profit of these companies while doing nothing to assist with said profit. There is a potential conflict of interest to say the least. Ah, but baseball is pure and wants nothing to do with gambling. This is not gambling anyway... it is a game of skill. Right. Sure it is.

11-18-2015, 09:09 PM	#66
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	Gambling threatens the integrity of the game for obvious reasons that many have already eloquently stated. If daily fantasy websites are eventually ruled illegal across the country (which is the trend at the moment), it's pretty much guaranteed that MLB will end its partnership with those sites for equally obvious reasons.

11-19-2015, 10:01 AM	#72
Assos All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 1,772	Nor do I, I think the sites will go the way of the Poker sites here in the US. There are strong anti-internet gambling lobbyists in this country (anti-gamblers linked up with para-mutual (Horsey, Dog, and Jai alai) and Native American and corporate casinos)

11-19-2015, 04:24 PM	#74
NYYANKS98 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 128	No. Although I disagree with making them illegal when we have the lottery peddling tons of money, their commercials piss me off to no end so good riddance. Where is the no option in this poll?

11-20-2015, 10:09 AM	#79
ChiefWahoo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 129	No. They're under federal investigation anyways. Deep similarities to gambling on sports. I'm not Hotrod Williams or Pete Rose.

11-20-2015, 07:45 PM	#80
TheMaus2 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The OOTP Forums. Always. Posts: 1,949 Blog Entries: 16	It would be cool if there was a fantasy baseball site within the game. But alas, One day fantasy football leagues give everyone the chance to draft the biggest stars without any comittment. Not what i signed up for with OOTP. Although FanDuel type leagues in OOTP would make for interesting results. __________________ I write a monthly newsletter on the Food Baseball Association. I also listen to music no one's ever heard of in hopes of looking cool and alternative.