Ever have a player that simply won't retire?

[David Watts]

Getting ready to start the 1999 season in my random debut and Miguel Cabrera is still on the Chicago Brawlers roster. Dude is 46 years old(at work so not completely sure), but I think his birthday is in April, if so he is soon to be 47. The strange thing is, he never plays, yet he maintains his spot on the 25 man roster. I think a couple of seasons ago, he had 120 at bats, but for the most part he is lucky if he plays in more than 3 game the entire season. Dude must be the all time clubhouse guy for a team to keep him on the roster and never use him. Not even to pinch hit. Strange. He is a sure bet for the hall of fame, once he retires, but I'm starting to think that may never happen.

[BIG17EASY]

What kind of contract does he have? Did the AI sign him to a big deal when he was late 30s, early 40s and now can't trade him and won't release him and eat the salary?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

What kind of contract does he have? Did the AI sign him to a big deal when he was late 30s, early 40s and now can't trade him and won't release him and eat the salary?

I use the reserve clause.

[BIG17EASY]

Interesting. How are his ratings?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Interesting. How are his ratings?

I have to confess, I hardly ever pay attention to ratings. I play "manage only" and let the AI control everything except the in game management of my team. I doubt his ratings are that great though, as he never plays. Prince Fielder also played until he was 45, but he stayed an everyday performer right up till he hung up his spikes. Cabrera is one year younger than Fielder and was probably 60+ home runs ahead of Prince when he reached 40. Fielder passed him by and became the first player in my league to reach 500 bombs.

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I use the reserve clause.

I think there are cases like this in the reserve era, even as late as the 1960's. We know about players like Smoky Burgess, who continued as a pinch-hitter only as the 25th man on the roster for a few years, but look at a player like Ozzie Virgil, Sr. From all the evidence I can find, he was on the Giants 25 man roster all the way through the 1967 and 1968 seasons, yet he never appeared in a game. He finally got into one game in 1969 and by the next season was a full-time coach.

I have only looked at this superficially, so it needs more research, but there seem to be examples of extended careers that were largely just veterans taking roster spots and not really playing. More cases need to be gathered to know how widespread was the practice.

[David Watts]

I'm interested to see how long other players stick around. Cabrera and Fielder were both part of my inaugural draft, so they came in 24+ years old. Mantle on the other hand, came in at 19. He is now 36. He hit his 500th homer last season. His numbers have been declining, but he's still trucking.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I have to confess, I hardly ever pay attention to ratings. I play "manage only" and let the AI control everything except the in game management of my team. I doubt his ratings are that great though, as he never plays. Prince Fielder also played until he was 45, but he stayed an everyday performer right up till he hung up his spikes. Cabrera is one year younger than Fielder and was probably 60+ home runs ahead of Prince when he reached 40. Fielder passed him by and became the first player in my league to reach 500 bombs.

I was just curious if his ratings were clearly so bad that he had no chance to be a competitive player. Odd to see this, but as JohnHoward points out, maybe it's a rare thing that happened in real life due to the reserve clause. I think it would bother me much more if it was some scrub player and not one of the best hitters of all time.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I was just curious if his ratings were clearly so bad that he had no chance to be a competitive player. Odd to see this, but as JohnHoward points out, maybe it's a rare thing that happened in real life due to the reserve clause. I think it would bother me much more if it was some scrub player and not one of the best hitters of all time.

All part of playing the game in my opinion.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by David Watts

All part of playing the game in my opinion.

I agree. Things like this are what make me love OOTP ... unless you post on here in a few weeks to tell us Miggy is about to turn 70 and still on a roster, haha.

[Cras]

I have had some a couple guys like this in my league. My league is just now transitioning from reserve clause to free agency, but I have had a couple guys who just never wanted to retire. I wanna say a 1B and a 3B.....both I ended up just trading after I saw after yet another season them still no retired and on my roster. Both guys played that season for their new team but retired following that season. I wondered if it was the fact my team was so competitive that they kept wanting to play. The second they were on a team that had little chance of winning a World Series, age finally caught up to them and they retired.

[joefromchicago]

Is he close to a milestone? In my experience, a player will hang around if he's close to a major milestone (e.g. 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins, 3000 Ks). But the AI won't play him because his skills have deteriorated with age. Meanwhile, the AI won't trade him because he's extremely popular. So the guy will sit on the bench for a year or two or three, waiting in vain for the chance to reach that milestone so he can finally retire.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Is he close to a milestone? In my experience, a player will hang around if he's close to a major milestone (e.g. 500 HRs, 3000 hits, 300 wins, 3000 Ks). But the AI won't play him because his skills have deteriorated with age. Meanwhile, the AI won't trade him because he's extremely popular. So the guy will sit on the bench for a year or two or three, waiting in vain for the chance to reach that milestone so he can finally retire.

This could be it. Miggy was the first player to 3000 hits in my league. He achieved this during his last season as a full time player. He finished that season 20+ home runs shy of 500. So it very well might be what's causing him to hang on.

[joefromchicago]

Yeah, that sounds about right. It's a combination of three independent factors:

(1) the player won't retire if he's within sight of a major milestone;
(2) the AI won't play a player if there's somebody better on the roster; and
(3) the AI won't trade or release a popular player if it will upset the fans.

Individually, each of these factors is reasonable, and it's a credit to the OOTP development team that the game models reality in these situations. The problem is when all three of them coincide with the same player. Then you have the situation where an aging superstar sits on the bench for two or three years, never playing, never retiring, and never being traded.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yeah, that sounds about right. It's a combination of three independent factors:

(1) the player won't retire if he's within sight of a major milestone;
(2) the AI won't play a player if there's somebody better on the roster; and
(3) the AI won't trade or release a popular player if it will upset the fans.

Individually, each of these factors is reasonable, and it's a credit to the OOTP development team that the game models reality in these situations. The problem is when all three of them coincide with the same player. Then you have the situation where an aging superstar sits on the bench for two or three years, never playing, never retiring, and never being traded.

Sounds like logical to me but can we confirm this with Markus?

[BradC]

Interesting thread. I will ask Markus and let everyone know what he says.

I assume that IRL, teams keep veterans like that around as clubhouse leaders and also to keep fans happy and buying tickets, if they love the guy.

[David Watts]

Sure am glad I checked before using Randy Johnson as an example. I completely forgot that he pitched until he was 45. In my random league, he pitched till he was 46 and then retired.

[joefromchicago]

This happened in my dynasty (played under version 12, but I don't think anything has changed since then). Bryan Conway got hit number 2,999 in 1912, played a couple of games in 1916, and then retired in 1917. So he basically sat on the bench for five years, waiting to get his 3,000th hit, before finally retiring.

[Mecza]

Sounds like Jim Thome to me:

Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
2009 38 TOT MLB 124 434 362 55 90 15 0 23 77 0 0 69 123 .249 .366 .481 .847 117 174 8 0 0 3 3 D
2009 38 CHW AL 107 417 345 55 86 15 0 23 74 0 0 69 116 .249 .372 .493 .864 121 170 8 0 0 3 3 D
2009 38 LAD NL 17 17 17 0 4 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 7 .235 .235 .235 .471 28 4 0 0 0 0 0

2010 39 MIN AL 108 340 276 48 78 16 2 25 59 0 0 60 82 .283 .412 .627 1.039 182 173 8 2 0 2 4 D MVP-18 2011 40 TOT AL 93 324 277 32 71 16 0 15 50 0 0 46 92 .256 .361 .477 .838 131 132 6 0 0 1 4 D/5
2011 40 MIN AL 71 242 206 21 50 12 0 12 40 0 0 35 69 .243 .351 .476 .827 126 98 5 0 0 1 3 D
2011 40 CLE AL 22 82 71 11 21 4 0 3 10 0 0 11 23 .296 .390 .479 .869 144 34 1 0 0 0 1 D/5
2012 41 TOT MLB 58 186 163 17 41 7 0 8 25 0 0 22 61 .252 .344 .442 .786 112 72 6 1 0 0 3 D/3
2012 41 PHI NL 30 71 62 9 15 2 0 5 15 0 0 8 21 .242 .338 .516 .854 125 32 2 1 0 0 1 /D3
2012 41 BAL AL 28 115 101 8 26 5 0 3 10 0 0 14 40 .257 .348 .396 .744 104 40 4 0 0 0 2 D

He was all over the place during his last three years (and is now currently in a front office position for the White Sox). Granted, he isn't really up against any major milestone but he sure has hell likes to play baseball.

[The Game]

I had Clark Griffith who finally retired after 1 IP in 1911. He had 3 IP in 1910. I had to release Fielder Jones after back to back seasons of .190 or worse average. he could still draw a BB though. 56 BB 21 K in 1910. 43 BB 11 k in 1911. Defense was still solid at 38 years old but he was drawing playing time away from Socks Seybold in 1910 and Dutch Zwilling in 1911.