Dynamic Rivalries

dave1927p · 01-07-2012, 10:01 PM

I'd love to see Rivalries in the game that can change based on different situations.

Games against some teams that you hate to lose because of past history (being fired, or them stealing some of your players), teams that your fans and players hate because of a dirty hit or just hard hitting and fighting games. They all can contribute to rivials (to name a few)

Rivialries go up and down in intensity and somethings they no longer exist. Ottawa and Toronto 7-10 years ago had a hell of a rivialry but with those players are traded and retired along with these teams not meeting in the playoffs for a long time it's basically died out. Remember how much the leafs hated Alfredsson? That hatred is almost non-existent today. Sure the media hypes these games still for the "battle of ontario" but we all know that rivalry is gone, for now. Rivals are also made in the playoffs....to bad for TO

When playing EHM, i'd play against a team that i could never beat in the playoffs, and for that reason they became my rival - but my hockey world in EHM never acknowledged it because it was non existent rival in the game - it wasn't dynamically changing as it should.

Rivals are a huge part in hockey worldwide , and because of that i hope the feature gets added into this game at one point.

drewst18 · 01-08-2012, 05:35 PM

oh Dave what an excellent idea. This would be a great feature for online. If somehow columbus wins 4 straight central titles and the Redwings finish 1 point behind each season they will develop a deep rivalry, or a team that plays every playoffs.
Great idea Dave, might not be a first edition thing as they already are offering so much, but I am loving the ideas and where this baby can go

Mecza · 01-10-2012, 05:17 AM

If somehow the game would be able to properly recognize such rivalries, that would be great for immersion for both WTHM and OOTP as well. But I think that there are bigger fish to fry in the first version of the game, but definitely wouldn't mind seeing such a feature in the future.

Malte Schwarz · 01-10-2012, 06:41 AM

We have already thought about an dynamic rivalry system, but I'm not sure if we will have enough time to incorporate it in the first version.

Bluenoser · 01-10-2012, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewst18

oh Dave what an excellent idea. This would be a great feature for online. If somehow columbus wins 4 straight central titles and the Redwings finish 1 point behind each season they will develop a deep rivalry, or a team that plays every playoffs.
Great idea Dave, might not be a first edition thing as they already are offering so much, but I am loving the ideas and where this baby can go

Rivalries aren't developed based on where a team finishes in the standings. They are developed through head to head play, hatred for each other or certain players, bragging rights, continuously losing to a team, especially in the play-offs, etc etc. I can see Detroit and Columbus having a rivalry if they are both competitive teams fighting for play-off spots each season, but not just because they finished 1 point behind them in the standings for a few years.

archibalduk · 01-10-2012, 03:17 PM

This is a fantastic idea! I would love to see this incorporated into a future version of the game (probably a bit ambitious for the first version of the game). This is one of those features that would be the icing on the cake.

I think if this feature were to be added then there ought to be some sort of baseline/minimum setting for certain rivalries. For example, the rivalry for Ottawa v Toronto (aka the Battle of Ontario) shouldn't ever disappear because it's a rivalry that will always be there IRL. Whereas perhaps something like the recent Boston v Vancouver rivalry could in the future decrease over the years.

A baseline figure would ensure that the Ott v Tor rivalry never goes lower than something like 18 (assuming a 0-20 scale). Whereas there could be no baseline for the Bos v Van rivalry which would allow this rivalry to potentially completely disappear long into the future (of course it might also remain if there are lots of big / heated matches, etc in game).

drewst18 · 01-10-2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Rivalries aren't developed based on where a team finishes in the standings. They are developed through head to head play, hatred for each other or certain players, bragging rights, continuously losing to a team, especially in the play-offs, etc etc. I can see Detroit and Columbus having a rivalry if they are both competitive teams fighting for play-off spots each season, but not just because they finished 1 point behind them in the standings for a few years.

Thats exactly how rivalries are formed. Division battles, conference battles, Stanley cup battles.

You don't see rilvaries form out of thin air. Comes by playing in same division and fighting for the title. I use Detroit cause I am a fan. The Detroit-Chicago rivalry was dead in the water in late 90s early 2000's. Because one of the two wasn't competitive. You compete with a team year in and year out for a division title that is exactly how rilvaries are formed.

Bluenoser · 01-11-2012, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewst18

Thats exactly how rivalries are formed. Division battles, conference battles, Stanley cup battles.

You don't see rilvaries form out of thin air. Comes by playing in same division and fighting for the title. I use Detroit cause I am a fan. The Detroit-Chicago rivalry was dead in the water in late 90s early 2000's. Because one of the two wasn't competitive. You compete with a team year in and year out, that is exactly how rilvaries are formed.

Fixed that for ya.

AESP_pres · 01-11-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Rivalries aren't developed based on where a team finishes in the standings. They are developed through head to head play, hatred for each other or certain players, bragging rights, continuously losing to a team, especially in the play-offs, etc etc.

Exactly. I have lived one of the biggest hockey rivalry with Quebec and Montreal. The standing had absolutly nothing to do with it...

Alessandro · 01-11-2012, 04:01 PM

On the other hand perhaps in Europe they should work a little bit differently, starting with teams playing in the same city/region...

flaquis010285 · 01-13-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alessandro

On the other hand perhaps in Europe they should work a little bit differently, starting with teams playing in the same city/region...

Or in the North American NHL with the NY Islanders/Rangers or the LA Kings/Anaheim Mighty Ducks or the defunct Montreal Canadiens/Québec Nordiques rivalry.

dave1927p · 01-13-2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaquis010285

Or in the North American NHL with the NY Islanders/Rangers or the LA Kings/Anaheim Mighty Ducks or the defunct Montreal Canadiens/Québec Nordiques rivalry.

Where both teams are located certainly add to a rivalry in both North America and Europe - i don't see that being different. Because they are so close, they play more often throughout the year which builds that hatred.

Toronto/Buffalo used to be a good rivalry too. It's kinda one way now. Buffalo HATES to lose against Toronto especially in Buffalo. Us leaf fans take over their barn.

lindfors19 · 02-12-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewst18

Thats exactly how rivalries are formed. Division battles, conference battles, Stanley cup battles.

Comes by playing in same division and fighting for the title.

That's not always the case. Maybe in the NHL but in Europe it's a bit different. Especially in Sweden. I don't know if this game will include any european licensed team or league, but if Elitserien are included is Djurgården vs AIK probably the greatest rivalry in the game today. And it's much thanks to their long history together in sports like football. But in this case it's not the players whom hate eachother, it is their fans. They literally hate eachother. And something i miss in sports games in general, are this great pressure and high expectations fans are putting on their players in matches like derbys.

If rivalry is implemented in the game, make sure it somewhat resemblance the real truth, with derbys included, otherwise i see no point in it. EHM was flat when it came to intresting matches like the one mentioned above, you expect a great atmosphere and all you got was, well, eh, nothing.

Anyway, looking forward to this game in any case and will definitely keep my eyes on this board till it's release!

Strelka · 02-23-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindfors19

That's not always the case. Maybe in the NHL but in Europe it's a bit different. Especially in Sweden. I don't know if this game will include any european licensed team or league, but if Elitserien are included is Djurgården vs AIK probably the greatest rivalry in the game today. And it's much thanks to their long history together in sports like football. But in this case it's not the players whom hate eachother, it is their fans. They literally hate eachother. And something i miss in sports games in general, are this great pressure and high expectations fans are putting on their players in matches like derbys.

If rivalry is implemented in the game, make sure it somewhat resemblance the real truth, with derbys included, otherwise i see no point in it. EHM was flat when it came to intresting matches like the one mentioned above, you expect a great atmosphere and all you got was, well, eh, nothing.

Anyway, looking forward to this game in any case and will definitely keep my eyes on this board till it's release!

Yes, rivalries here in Russia are based on long standing animosity and hate and have absolutely nothing to do with rankings in the table. For instance our fans (as in supporters) HATE the football team from our city and support our brother football club(s) that is(are) in another city.

My club has 1 major rival, 1 somewhat major rival, and one club that is a brother club. This will never change.

dave1927p · 02-23-2012, 09:35 PM

what's a "derby" mean exactly? (please pardon my ignorance

)

Vikke · 02-23-2012, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

what's a "derby" mean exactly? (please pardon my ignorance

)

Two teams from the same city, or pretty closeby eachother, with a rivalry.
Geographically based rivalry, pretty much.

Like in Sweden, there are two teams from Stockholm in the SEL, Djurgården and AIK. Both clubs founded in 1891, they've battled in both soccer and hockey since forever, pretty much. True hatred between the fanbases. Hope that answers it

Strelka · 02-24-2012, 01:40 AM

Here is a visual for you

Regular Match

Derby

Derbies represent long standing hate, usually built up over several sports or even historical events, that will never go away, and I mean actual hate.

And of course it is much different than in North America, the Toronto Maple Leafs have no affiliation with the Toronto Blue Jays. In Russia for instance, there is FC Spartak, HC Spartak, BC Spartak. (football, hockey, basketball) They all share the same fan movement and are affiliated, but the basketball club is in Saint Petersburg while the football and hockey clubs are in Moscow. Then you have the (former)army clubs spread out all over the country who share the same fan movement, even when competing in the same league in the same sport. It is the club that is supported and this compounds the rivalry and the hate.

01-07-2012, 10:01 PM	#1
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,888	Dynamic Rivalries I'd love to see Rivalries in the game that can change based on different situations. Games against some teams that you hate to lose because of past history (being fired, or them stealing some of your players), teams that your fans and players hate because of a dirty hit or just hard hitting and fighting games. They all can contribute to rivials (to name a few) Rivialries go up and down in intensity and somethings they no longer exist. Ottawa and Toronto 7-10 years ago had a hell of a rivialry but with those players are traded and retired along with these teams not meeting in the playoffs for a long time it's basically died out. Remember how much the leafs hated Alfredsson? That hatred is almost non-existent today. Sure the media hypes these games still for the "battle of ontario" but we all know that rivalry is gone, for now. Rivals are also made in the playoffs....to bad for TO When playing EHM, i'd play against a team that i could never beat in the playoffs, and for that reason they became my rival - but my hockey world in EHM never acknowledged it because it was non existent rival in the game - it wasn't dynamically changing as it should. Rivals are a huge part in hockey worldwide , and because of that i hope the feature gets added into this game at one point. __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence?

01-10-2012, 06:41 AM	#4
Malte Schwarz Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,981	We have already thought about an dynamic rivalry system, but I'm not sure if we will have enough time to incorporate it in the first version. Last edited by Malte Schwarz; 01-10-2012 at 06:44 AM.

01-10-2012, 03:17 PM	#6
archibalduk All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: UK Posts: 1,209	This is a fantastic idea! I would love to see this incorporated into a future version of the game (probably a bit ambitious for the first version of the game). This is one of those features that would be the icing on the cake. I think if this feature were to be added then there ought to be some sort of baseline/minimum setting for certain rivalries. For example, the rivalry for Ottawa v Toronto (aka the Battle of Ontario) shouldn't ever disappear because it's a rivalry that will always be there IRL. Whereas perhaps something like the recent Boston v Vancouver rivalry could in the future decrease over the years. A baseline figure would ensure that the Ott v Tor rivalry never goes lower than something like 18 (assuming a 0-20 scale). Whereas there could be no baseline for the Bos v Van rivalry which would allow this rivalry to potentially completely disappear long into the future (of course it might also remain if there are lots of big / heated matches, etc in game). __________________ Webmaster of The Blue Line Eastside Hockey Manager & Franchise Hockey Manager community and resource

02-23-2012, 09:35 PM	#15
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,888	what's a "derby" mean exactly? (please pardon my ignorance ) __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence? Last edited by dave1927p; 02-23-2012 at 09:42 PM.

01-08-2012, 05:35 PM	#2
drewst18 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 164	oh Dave what an excellent idea. This would be a great feature for online. If somehow columbus wins 4 straight central titles and the Redwings finish 1 point behind each season they will develop a deep rivalry, or a team that plays every playoffs. Great idea Dave, might not be a first edition thing as they already are offering so much, but I am loving the ideas and where this baby can go

01-10-2012, 05:17 AM	#3
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	If somehow the game would be able to properly recognize such rivalries, that would be great for immersion for both WTHM and OOTP as well. But I think that there are bigger fish to fry in the first version of the game, but definitely wouldn't mind seeing such a feature in the future.

01-11-2012, 04:01 PM	#10
Alessandro Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 6,387	On the other hand perhaps in Europe they should work a little bit differently, starting with teams playing in the same city/region...

02-24-2012, 01:40 AM	#17
Strelka Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 36	Here is a visual for you Regular Match Derby Derbies represent long standing hate, usually built up over several sports or even historical events, that will never go away, and I mean actual hate. And of course it is much different than in North America, the Toronto Maple Leafs have no affiliation with the Toronto Blue Jays. In Russia for instance, there is FC Spartak, HC Spartak, BC Spartak. (football, hockey, basketball) They all share the same fan movement and are affiliated, but the basketball club is in Saint Petersburg while the football and hockey clubs are in Moscow. Then you have the (former)army clubs spread out all over the country who share the same fan movement, even when competing in the same league in the same sport. It is the club that is supported and this compounds the rivalry and the hate.